Talk:School of Oriental and African Studies

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Contents 1 Imperial 2 Robert Irwin 3 Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia 4 Why is there nothing on the anti-Semitism allegations? 5 Bernard Lewis: 'The neo-cons' favourite historian', 5.1 Of course it's someone's opinion 6 Uni of London link 7 can someone fix ToC? 8 Infobox 9 Why has all mention of the Islamophobic witch hunt against Muslim student Nasser Amin been removed? 10 To read more about Nasser Amin's mistreatment and more details about what the School is like for Muslims read his interview with the UK's leading Muslim civil liberties group, MPACUK 11 Notable alumni 12 Demographic 13 University ratings 14 SOAS UserBox 15 Pronunciation

[edit] Imperial

Sir Richard Sykes, Rector of Imperial College, said "Do we want to be badged as London University along with some less prestigious institutions?"

Which institutions might he have been thinking of I wonder...

Donald MacLeod, 'Getting out of London', The Guardian (Tuesday December 13, 2005)

Old news. I seem to recall him specifically mentioning Queen Mary, University of London. siarach 15:30, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

He didn't mean SOAS?--AlexanderLondon 13:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems decidedly unlikely, given SOAS's reputation in its field. BovineBeast 16:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Ditto, SOAS is somewhat unique and stands apart from the other colleges. Size isn't everything. 87.194.83.65 12:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Irwin

To Whom It May Concern:

Robert Irwin never said that SOAS is dependent on it's past achievements (infact he was quoting someone else, who was refering to government funding), please read the article you reference, before you misquote. If you read the article, it is impossible to say what you keep quoting!

I read Irwin's book. I am pretty sure that he said that the Near Eastern history department in particular was relying on its past reputation. I don't think you can seriously deny that SOAS's repution has been diminishing over recent decades. It claims to be an international centre of excellence, when in fact it isn't even a national centre of excellence. It's better than most British universities, which isn't saying much, and it's on a par with UCL, Imperial, etc, but it's in a whole other league from Oxford and Cambridge, the UK's only really world-class universities. SOAS has an amazing library of books in Asian and African languages that would be unavailable perhaps anywhere else in the UK or even outside of their country of publication, and it has a fair few outstanding academics, but it can hardly claim to be the world-renowned institution that it was in its first fifty-or-so years. I think that was the gist of what Irwin concluded - that SOAS had sidelined archaeology, papyrology, ancient and medieval history, classical literature, and similar topics in favour of more marketable courses, attracting more students and allowing its staff less time to devote to research.--195.92.67.74 12:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Hold on - better than most British universities, which isn't saying much? That's a bizarre statement, considering that British universities are generally recognised the best outside the US (check out any of the international league tables). BovineBeast 16:07, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia

The accusations of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia at SOAS are probably ignored here because they are unfounded.

The reason SOAS is accused of anti-Semitism is because it does things like hosting a conference on "Israeli Apartheid". This is somewhat in keeping with the very high profile of Muslim students at SOAS and the equally high profile of the SOAS Palestine Society. Lest anybody think I am confusing Islam with Palestine, allow me to point out that the Study of Religions department does some world-leading work on Christianity in the Middle East, including courses and conferences on Christian communities in Palestine and Iraq. However, SOAS does incorporate the former Jews' College (now the Centre for Jewish Studies or something similar), the library has a large Judaica area, and courses on Judaism and Jewish studies are provided. There are quite a number of Jewish members of staff. As far as I can gather, the problem has been that a tiny minority of students has chosen to interpret criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism. See, for example, For vile hatred, pop along to SOAS, courtesy of Stephen Pollard. Note that one person who has contributed to the page calls Tom Paulin, 'Tom "kill the jews" Paulin', not, 'Tom "kill the Israelis" Paulin'.

The reason for the accusation of Islamophobia has somewhat escaped me, actually, but I feel I should point out firstly that, pace my reservations above, it is rather at odds with the idea that SOAS is anti-Semitic. I don't have hard statistics at my fingertips, but from anecdotal evidence, I should say that there must be more Muslim students at SOAS, as a proportion of the total student body, than at almost any other university in the UK, and possibly in the Western world. What is more, they enjoy a very high profile, with a regular stall in the main building providing information about Islam and Islamic culture, and two prayer rooms available (one male, one female). Compare that to the situation at the University of Oxford: Prayer Room Facilities: Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies - Evening Access. I am very happy with the number of Muslim students at SOAS, and their treatment by the School authorities seems to be quite satisfactory.--195.92.67.75 22:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

---

Well said. One of the reasons i find the accusations of Islamophobia so ludicrous is the SOAS has a huge proportion of Muslim students and is far better known for the extremely left wing persuasion (read pro-Palestine etc) of most of its student body and arguably also its faculty. SOAS being Islamophobic is about as credible an accusation as Eton being of a Communist, anti-Bourgeouise leaning. siarach 09:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

As for the anti-Semitic accusations, I don't know if it's important enough to discuss in the article, but it is at least pertinent to recognize that whether or not one chooses to conflate anti-Zionism or anti-Israeli attitudes with anti-Semitism or not, there is a very strong pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli focus among the louder or more prevalent members of the student body. We have had at least two weeks this year declared as Palestinian Week or something similar - likely more than any other national or ethnic group; and the last Israeli Society meeting I attended had no more than six attendees. I do not imply that this is an institutional bias inherent to the faculty or the administration, but it certainly represents the political views of the more active, more vocal portion of the student body. I came here expecting to find kindred spirits in people interested in regional studies of East Asia, Southeast Asia, Africa, and other regions; instead I find the most politically charged and one-sided atmosphere I have ever been in. LordAmeth 19:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is there nothing on the anti-Semitism allegations?

That's the most prominent way that SOAS has been featured in the news over the past year or so... AnonMoos 20:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

http://education.guardian.co.uk/racism/story/0,10795,1481647,00.html

[edit] Bernard Lewis: 'The neo-cons' favourite historian',

Could you please tell me who these "neo-cons" are, and when they've stated that Lewis is their favorite historian? It just sounds like somebody's opinion. -- Dan

[edit] Of course it's someone's opinion

It's a catchphrase, not sacred fact, Mr Pedant Dan. Bernard Lewis has been referred to by various influential publications as an academic poster-boy for the neo-conservative project within the humanities, specifically with regard to the project of nation and democracy building in the Middle East, a project which Lewis has long been advocating and which the US has taken on board most explicitly since the outbreak of the Iraq war.

[edit] Uni of London link

Added University of London link to the blue facts box. AJ, 08 Aug 05.

[edit] can someone fix ToC?

It probably shouldn't be in the picture area thingumy. -nshworth al-nsh

[edit] Infobox

This article would benefit from a real infobox to replace the tabular mess currently in the article. Unfortunately Infobox University is somewhat US-centric and doesn't have all of the fields used in the table. I have mocked up a University Infobox below and tried to fit in as much of the data as possible. I would like to use this in the article, and perhaps integrate the data that doesn't fit into the article another way.

Bungopolis 13:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Great idea! --Ghormax 08:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm making the change Cpastern 22:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that looks better. I was just waiting to see if somebody had a way to integrate the extra information, but who cares? I don't. All that crap belongs in the article, not a summary box, which is meant to be a concise representation of the most important data. Bungopolis 23:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS)
Motto	Knowledge is Power
Established	1916
Type	Public
President	Baroness Helena Kennedy QC
Principal	Prof. Colin Bundy
Pro-Director	Prof. Peter Robb
Students	3,500
Undergraduates	1,600
Postgraduates	1,500
Location	London, United Kingdom
Campus	Urban
Patron	HM The Queen
Affiliations	University of London
Website	http://www.soas.ac.uk

[edit] Why has all mention of the Islamophobic witch hunt against Muslim student Nasser Amin been removed?

To read more about what SOAS and external Zionists did to this Muslim student, read here:

http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/2006/20060312_free_west.htm

Well presumably because it was utterly POV. There is no Islamophobic witch hunt - this is a wet dream created by those with a persecution complex. Amin has certainly been mistreated (although it is hard to muster too much fury over this given the repugnant views he expressed) and the actions of the School with regard to him were not in keeping with their own regulations but it had absolutely nothing to do with him being Muslim, Asian, Non-WASP or non-Martin for that matter. Anyway such a comparatively trivial matter has no place on the wiki page of a major institution and nobody without a vested, subjective interest in highlighting it would think otherwise. siarach 07:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To read more about Nasser Amin's mistreatment and more details about what the School is like for Muslims read his interview with the UK's leading Muslim civil liberties group, MPACUK

Part One:

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/1318/103/

Part Two:

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4/1335/103/

The opening paragraph/introduction to the above "evidence" is as hilarious an example of subjective ranting ive ever read:

Brother Nasser Amin is a student from the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) who has been used as a scape goat to please the Zionists and to attack those who stand for the Palestinian right of self defence against Israeli Occupation of their land.

And does my memory fail me or is this the same group who created the ludicrous "Islamophobe of the Year" poll which listed the likes of Julie Burchill ( for the crime of having the gall to speak out against the widespread Islamic mistreatment of women) with the likes of Islom Karimov and various other mass murderers/dictators etc? siarach 18:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable alumni

Can someone verify these, Aung San Suu Kyi page makes no reference to her attending SOAS, neither does Dom Joly and many others.--Fabio 00:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Aung San suu Kyi did attend SOAS for somekind of postgrad degree I think. Either way, I would hope she is an alumni as she is currently the Student Union's hon. president.87.194.83.65 12:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demographic

Can anyone tell me what the ethnic demographic make up of SOAS is? i.e. what % is white, black, asian? it doesn't have to be very accurate, just ruff figures--Fabio 07:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately institution specific data doesn't seem to be available from HESA. Timrollpickering 12:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I cant give proper percentages but if youre just looking for a general idea id say the majority of the student population is non-white. siarach 16:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

ok can someone tell me then how much is white then?--Fabio 20:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

http://www.soas.ac.uk/departments/index.cfm?navid=1837 : This has the statistics. SOAS was 50.66% white last year. BovineBeast 16:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] University ratings

(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#University ratings. Timrollpickering 00:13, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SOAS UserBox

For Wikipedians from SOAS Surena 11:20, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

I've never heard "['səuæz]". Is it really common? Lfh 14:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Mostly among older people. The students usually pronounce it with an [s], in my experience, but I've heard people who were students here 20 years ago pronounce it with [z]. BovineBeast 16:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)