Talk:Sawm

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Contents 1 Empty Sections 2 Cleanup Template 3 Answer 4 I don't think we need Nagari 5 Scripts 6 More details 7 Revision

[edit] Empty Sections

We really should not be adding empty sections with absolutely no information in them. And yes, Striver, I was addressing you directly. joturner 23:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind I corrected a few things, especially the section on women and fasting (since when are husbands allowed to prevent thier wives from fasting??!) 'and Allah knows best'. Sister Irem xx

[edit] Cleanup Template

What is wrong with this article? Let me count the ways...

• Terrible English: Now I'm not going to point fingers at one person in particular although I would like to but before making an edit, can you at least check to make sure what you wrote makes gramatical sense?
• Empty sections: One sentence does not make a section.
• Red Links: Don't link to a page that does not exist. Make the page first and then link to it.
• References to "Islamic fasting": "Islamic fasting" is observed on the of Ashura? Well thanks for clarifying that; I was under the impression that Jewish fasting was practiced on that Islamic holiday.
• Islamic fasting on the Islamic month of Ramadan: Not only is that gramatically correct, it's redundant. Fasting during Ramadan will suffice.
• Insufficient explanations: "One may aske a prayer, including a vow to fast if the prayer is accepted." Even if I were to correct the obvious grammar mistakes in that sentence, I still would have no idea what is being talked about there.

[edit] Answer

• Terrible English: Now I'm not going to point fingers at one person in particular although I would like to but before making an edit, can you at least check to make sure what you wrote makes gramatical sense?

I try, and i get better.

• Empty sections: One sentence does not make a section.

That why it is "stubed"

• Red Links: Don't link to a page that does not exist. Make the page first and then link to it.

I was planing to, other things came in the way. By the way, dont order me, as if that was a wikipedia rule, and i was the only one doing that.

• References to "Islamic fasting": "Islamic fasting" is observed on the of Ashura? Well thanks for clarifying that; I was under the impression that Jewish fasting was practiced on that Islamic holiday.

Yes, Sunnis belive jews where using Jewish fasting on that day. Further, "Islamic fasting" denoters "not ordinary random fasting, but fasting accordin to Islamic Jurisprudence".

• Islamic fasting on the Islamic month of Ramadan: Not only is that gramatically correct, it's redundant. Fasting during Ramadan will suffice.

Again, its not random fasting like "i wont eat fat food today". It extends to water and sex.

• Insufficient explanations: "One may aske a prayer, including a vow to fast if the prayer is accepted." Even if I were to correct the obvious grammar mistakes in that sentence, I still would have no idea what is being talked about there.

Ill try to elaborate on that. I appreciate your kindness. --Striver 01:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Like I said I was not pointing fingers at anyone. I was not ordering you around; the red link thing is just good practice. If you are talking about Islamic fasting, it is unnecessary to refer to it as such in an article entitled sawm / Islamic fasting. joturner 02:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I don't think we need Nagari

Even Islam is a major religion of India, the Muslim community there uses the Urdu script and not Nagari, so I think it is safe to remove the version of "Sawm" in nagari. Shukriya, Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 21:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scripts

All scripts should be removed except for Arabic. This article is about the word Sawm not other word used in other languages instead of Sawm. Szhaider 00:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

But is this not also a page for "fasting" in Islam and not just about the Arabic word? Kitabparast 02:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Throughout Persia and the Indian subcontinent, the concept (Sawm) is known as rozah (रोज़ह روزہ) and is known by many other names in other countries. Even though natives of these countries call the Arabic word by another name, they are still practicing fasting and are just as Muslim. I hope this helps. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 02:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You need every chance to desperately label every word with Hindi and Devangari script. The way all the scripts were listed was rather crude and favouring a few languages while ignoring tens of other languages used by Muslims around the word. For some languages only scripts were given without any pronunciation or transliteration. The best way to tackle this problem is removing all scripts or giving only transliteration of the words in different languages without giving any scripts in a new sub-section. Szhaider 03:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I only add Hindi/Urdu scripts where they are relevant. Your first edit only removed the Hindi, not any of the other languages despite India having the second largest Muslim population. The other languages listed all used the Roman script or a modified form of it. I only added what I knew: Hindi and Urdu. If you would like to give transliterations of the other languages, please feel free to do so. I do not know those languages. All the scripts given should be kept. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 03:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I do not know any other languages. Scripts without pronunciations are of no use to the reader. We do not want to turn all articles into lists of scripts to promote our sorry languages. Only Arabic script is relevent to this article. No other script is needed. Transliterations, if available, will do fine. Szhaider 03:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Your current edit is fine. However, if we give the transliteration rozah, it is proper to give the scripts as most other Wikipedia articles do. Also, why did you revert the article to the version before I made an alphabetical sort? You only did the same thing here: Sufism calling it a geographic sort, whatever that means. I only sorted alphabetically, completely justifiable. Allah hafiz, Anupam^Talk 03:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More details

There should be some information on fasting on certain recommended days. For example, I think that Daud (the prophet) used to fast every second day and Muhammad used to fast on certain days of the week. I'm not sure if the Hadith mention these. I'll check and write something about it. MP (talk) 21:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revision

I have tried to address the first two issues in the 'Cleanup Template'. I appreciate the start that other brothers and sisters have made, don't get me wrong, but the grammar, punctuation and syntax were such that it was prohibitive to any clear understanding of the article. The layout was not conducive to a linear comprehension of Sawm, either, so I have begun a re-work of that, too. I was surprised to see so much repetition had been left, despite recent edits having been made.

Insha-allah, I will add a description of the requirement of niyyah (intention) before a fast, because we currently seem to be to using the words 'oath' and 'fast' interchangeably, which is all well and good for Muslim readers who already understand the concept (of niyyah), but is very possibly confusing for non-Muslim readers.

Sister Irem; wives must ask their husbands permission to fast, and, whilst it's rare for a husband to decline, the fact remains. I will not add this, however, until I can cite my sources.

May Allah (SWT) reward us for any work in the future. Any constructive criticism of mine is welcome,

Brother Omar (a.k.a. MU4L 12:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)MU4L), U.K.