Talk:Sathya Sai Baba movement

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Sorry

apologies accepted. the confusing title should have been changed much earlier. Andries 13:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

See Talk:Beliefs_and_practices_in_the_Sathya_Sai_Organisation for old discussions. Andries 13:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC) See Talk:Sathya Sai Baba movement/Comments. Andries 00:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


See here for the history of this article [1]

Contents

[edit] Proposal for renaming this article into Sathya Sai Baba movement

See [2] [3] [4] [5] Andries 10:38, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below, and per naming conventions. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title should be Sathya Sai Baba movement

The title should be Sathya Sai Baba movement. Not The Sathya Sai Baba movement. See Wikipedia:Title#Avoid_the_definite_article_.28.22the.22.29_and_the_indefinite_article_.28.22a.22.2F.22an.22.29_at_the_beginning_of_the_page_name. Andries 18:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Support. Agree, "the" must go. If Kkrystian will agree, I'd say go ahead and move it back. However, looking through the history, I see that this article has already had many name changes, is there anyone supporting a third option? --Groggy Dice T|C 09:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Sathya Sai Baba movement sounds ungrammatical to me Kkrystian 19:01 (UTC+1) 4 Jan 2007
    • I think Krystian's argument is suspect because s/he is not a native English speaker. Andries 13:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Support - per naming conventions. We simply don't use "the" in at the beginning of the title. -Patstuarttalk|edits 18:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Ekantik talk 02:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Merge from Sathya Sai Baba

See talk:Narayana Kasturi. Please comment here. Andries 17:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] cult versus religious movement

From what I understand Lawrence Babb prefers the term cult over religious movement because he asserts that the focus is on SSB's miracles, not on doctrine or teachings as he thinks should be the case for a religious movement. (I have my doubts about whether Babb's set of definitions will yield useful classifications and explanations. By the way, it is not my experience that there is less emphasis on teachings than in the Roman Catholic Church). Andries 01:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

By the way, the article says that he says that he will reincarnate in this century. Which one? 20th or 21st? Larry R. Holmgren 22:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organizations section

I copied the organizations section from Sathya Sai Baba because they are better suited here. I still have to check some of the sources that strike me as doubtful e.g. chennai online. Andries 22:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Sathya Sai Organization

See Talk:Sathya_Sai_Organization. Please discuss here. Andries 15:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Still contains some original research/personal interpretations

I am busy removing the remaining original research and personal interpretations from the article. I hope that I will be finished before I get banned by the arbcom that will most probably lead to a complete stand still of this article. Andries 19:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I am bold in editing, but I want to improve the article before I get banned, because the history of the article shows that only I am interested in the article. It will probably remain in its somewhat sorry state for a long time if I abandon it. Andries 20:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I made some mistakes in citations with Bowen, Babb, Nagel, and Kent. I also have possibly misinterpreted their works. I hope that I will be able to fix it before the ban take its effect. In the meantime I will give a warning on the article page. Andries 21:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My assessment of sources: Kent, Bowen, Swallow

  • Kent:
    • found only minor inaccuracies.
    • Hardly information about the life of SSB.
    • Book was published in 2005 but research took place between 1996-1998
    • Book has an index
  • Bowen:
    • throughout the whole book SSB's paranormal powers are described as siddhis, though SSB denied in the 1976 Blitz interview that his powers are siddhis.
    • compares and explains Shiva and hence SSB with Dionysos in his conclusion. Implausible and unpractical; it is like explaining contemporary cars with chariots from Ancient. The conclusion is not or hardly suppported by his other writings.
    • Gives a timeline of SSB's life and the movement
    • Lengthy and no index
  • Swallow
    • Implausible theoretical speculations about the meaning of SSB's claim to be an incarnation of Shiva

Andries 09:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation of edits

  • Replaced syncretism with eclecticism.
    • Syncretism is denied by Morton Klass, though I cannot write about that because I do not have the book by Klass. Eclecticism is supported among others by Kent and Bowen though I still have to find the page numbers
  • Meditation shortened
    • I cannot find third party peer-reviewed articles for this, so I have used the devotee compendium by Steel and shortened this.
  • Removed some redundant statements treated already elsewhere in the entry

Andries 21:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The bibliography section is incomplete; few listings have the year of publication. This context is needed. Larry R. Holmgren 22:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

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