Talk:Sarum Rite

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I note that, as well as several helpful changes User:MiguelJoseErnst has made, he has also replaced some of the superfluous links and uses of bold typeface that had been removed earlier, because of their earlier appearance in the text. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that the Wikipedia style guide discourages this (see Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context) and have therefore removed them. I mean no offence, but could people not put them back in until they have carefully checked the style guide. Many thanks. -Vneiomazza 18:47, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rebuttal

Apologies. I know that there is a fine line as to what may be considered related and superfluous links. I suppose you're right in that it is better to err on the side of less rather than more so as to make the page appear less cluttered.

I will argue for the use of Protestant Episcopal Church however. I realize that in common use, and as of recently in legal use, that the term Episcopal Church refers to the major Anglican body in the U.S. However, the term Episcopal Church is rather offensive to those of us who belong to other episcopal churches (i.e. those with an episcopacy). I argue for the use of the term Protestant Episcopal Church, since this was formely the most widely used term, is still a current legal term for that body, is used by a few organizations connected with that body (such as the Protestant Episcopal Cathedral Foundation in Washington, DC), and that body still retains legal ownership of that name (as was established somewhat recently in court).

MiguelJoseErnst 05:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Miguel, the name of the denomination is the Episcopal Church in the United States of America. Other churches are episcopal, but it's only used in its capitalised form by certain member churches of the Anglican Communion, many of whom do not see that tradition as being strictly Protestant, rather it is catholic but reformed. That is the reason I reverted (and have again) the characterisation of ECUSA as Protestant. The situation simply isn't as simple as that. Read Anglicanism and Scottish Episcopal Church and that will show you the historical reasons for the name. Adding in Protestant is very much expressing a Point of View

I'm afraid that I do not understand how using the historical name of a religious body is expressing a point of view. I know many Epicopalians both of the Low Church tradition and Anglo-Catholics who would agree with the fact that the historical name of there church is The Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America. My Low Church friends would says that they are Protestants through and through. My Anglo-Catholic friends would say that this is merely a legal title describing the church as non-Roman Catholic. In fact at one time, I was an Anglo-Catholic and always used the term Protestant Episcopal Church. Please enlighten me and explain how this is a Point of View.

MiguelJoseErnst 22:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Miguel, it is a historical name, not the name it is normally known by now (in fact if you look at discussion at WP:Anglicanism it seems to be adopting simply The Episcopal Church, at least for certain internal contexts) and presumably dropped the regular use of Protestant as part of the name for good reason, trying to resurrect it might seem to imply you don't agree with the that reason. The article name in Wikipedia is Episcopal Church in the United States of America and unless that is changed, it makes things more understandable if links to the article have the same title. Possibly I should have worded my original response to you a little more softly, I was possibly in danger of not assuming good faith, or at least that given your name and user page, you might be coming at things from a different angle than it appears from your last post. David Underdown 10:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It's unhistorical to say the Sarum rite "replaced" genuflection with a bow because genuflections had not come into general usage at the time the Sarum was in general use.--146.145.70.200 20:38, 22 August 2006 (UTC)