User:Sango123/Archives/July 2005

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[edit] 5 Pillars

Got somethin' against libruls? :) Sango123 July 3, 2005 17:48 (UTC)

Libruls are fine, except when they tread on my MPOV. Ingoolemo talk 2005 July 4 02:53 (UTC)
I am shocked, appalled... and maybe even horrified. Sango123 July 4, 2005 03:42 (UTC)
C'mon, a little bias never hurt anyone. Ingoolemo talk 2005 July 4 04:49 (UTC)
Well, it sure do hurt them political pundits. ;) Sango123 July 4, 2005 16:20 (UTC)

[edit] thanks

Hi Sango123, thanks for the vote of confidence on my RfA! I do hope to become an excellent admin, and I'm grateful for your support. --Spangineer (háblame) July 4, 2005 03:46 (UTC)

[edit] Talking is hot

It comes from that's hot, the catchphrase of one Miss Paris Hilton. Mike H (Talking is hot) July 5, 2005 19:22 (UTC)

[edit] Vote or Die's

Thanks for the update; I've been away from my computer lately, and haven't had much time to keep up with Wikipedia happenings. So, just to let you know, I'll probably be here in a decreased presence for the next few weeks. See you around! Bratschetalk 5 pillars July 5, 2005 21:12 (UTC)

[edit] Peace Dove

Oh, I'm sorry; I didn't know there was a process for getting awards accepted too. Borisblue 8 July 2005 23:20 (UTC)

  • I find this line in the guideline page a little misleading though "General awards may be created and placed on the main award page by anybody as they see fit, so long as they do not violate the basic guidelines below." maybe that should be fixed. Borisblue 8 July 2005 23:26 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Galanthus nivalis close-up aka.jpg
Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted
Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Galanthus nivalis close-up aka.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. ~~~~

-- Enochlau 14:34, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Hi Sango, thanks for the barnstar! I'll add it to my gallery. I do indeed patrol RC for redlinks (I have it list 500 changes at a time so I can find as many as possible at one time); I use Firefox so I can open each in a new tab, and I have a signature extension that lets me insert my welcome message with a single right-click.

If you really like my work, you can head over to my RfA and vote for me; I'd really appreciate it! -- Essjay • Talk 16:16, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:StarfishBarnstar.png

Hi, Uwe. I've proposed an image for the 'Starfish Barnstar' on WP:BAP. We would be honored to hear your imput. Thanks, Sango123 15:34, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

I award you with the Starfish Barnstar for your fine cooperation on benthic articles (Sango123)
I award you with the Starfish Barnstar for your fine cooperation on benthic articles (Sango123)

How's this image? Sango123 14:57, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Hallo Sango123 - your design is great, it would make a fine award for benthic articles. We are planning to make some for planktology, physical oceanography (maybe a wave), chemical oceanography and marine geology - all these fields are very underrepresented in Wikipedia (our article on Antarctic krill will be on the main page in Danmark next Saturday, and we want to make a whole lecture using content we all make in Wikipedia (draft here: http://kils.pageout.net - all help is appreciated - best regards Uwe Kils Image:heringmini.jpg 15:52, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Barnstar

I replied on my talk page. And as for that picture of yours, I went there when I was 12... brings back memories :) Redwolf24 17:38, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Barnstarmy.jpg

I hate to break it to you, but the image should go. I got it saved on my computer if you ever lose your copy. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:03, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

That's fine. Thanks for saving the image; I haven't lost my copy yet, but I guess Barney's death was a bit overdue anyway. :) Sango123 20:08, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Ok, I will give the admins a heads up at IFD. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:13, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Thank you. Sango123 20:15, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:Ericswebber

I had put some information on the Perfect Numbers page, and now I see that all the effort and information I put there is gone. Is it being reviewed ? When will it show up again ?

The information I added was very vital and information that should be there.

kindest regards,

ericswebber@gmail.com

[edit] User:Phaleux

Just wanted to say thanks for the noob message, it had some new info for me --Phaleux 07:10, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Thank you for the welcome note friend. I hope that, by improving Wikipedia, I'll improve myself. (Theodosias)

[edit] Thanks for the welcome message!

I've got some questions that I`ve don't have found any answers for. - Is it possible to delete a article (sadly I made a spelling mistake)

Thank you. Rosenborg 17:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Second question: When I write capital letters (ex. HOUSE) nothing shows up, but when I write small letters (ex. house) the page shows up. Why?

Rosenborg 17:56, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I see I still have much to read  ;) (edited the message over, so it is more anonymous)

Rosenborg 18:04, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

One more thing; Is it not possible for me to change the name of the team to my example (house) in your reply too?

Rosenborg 18:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

No no no! I just ment to change the <club name> in your reply at "my page" to <something else>. (for example house/HOUSE or any other word) (not redirecting, I've got that now ;) Do you understand this?

Sorry for my bad English, I think I have to think more before i write.. hehe ;)Rosenborg 18:28, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Ups! No I found the big edit button! Sorry, only saw the small one. Sorry (blush)

I't is OK now ;) Rosenborg 18:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks from me too!

Super fast welcome message! Evie em

[edit] WP:MIND

Thanks for the reminder! I've already got all of round one ready, and once it is July 16, UST time, voting will begin. I'll drop a reminder to everyone, and try to encourage votes and participation. Be sure to try round one once the clock strikes midnight (UST, of course)! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 19:04, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry about your welcome message...

Sorry - I was trying to warn User:Luigi iverson about vandalism, but accidentally mangled your 'welcome' message. My fault. - jredmond 19:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From BrainInAVat

Thanks for the kind welcome! I have been using Wikipedia as an anonymous user for a few years now, making only minor and infrequent edits (the most significant of which was the creation of the Locus (mathematics) article. However, I use Wikipedia every day and I appreciate what the Wikipedians have done to make the Internet just a little less chaotic. --BrainInAVat 19:36, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the newbie message. I come into wikipedia off and on for years, but not actively enough to know half the stuff you had in your msg to me so it was welcome. Most recently I've been looking at pages referring to Air America Radio personalities. It's cool to know if I get stuck, I can drop you a line. =) Thanks again. ZachsMind 23:00, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bravo!

Thank you, Sango123. You have helped a confused contributor to Wikipedia make a remarkably satisfying contribution to the site. I salute you. Hugh Manatee

[edit] Barnstar thoughts

I wanted to drop you a line, so here it is: I've been thinking about barnstars lately, and I'm a little afraid that we're edging toward barnstar creep. I believe the purpose of the category barnstars was to keep the level of topic barnstars {e.g. Running Man barnstar) down. I have mixed feelings about the Starfish star and the ODM metal, although I think Current Events deserves one, since Wikipedia has excelled lately in that area. What are your thoughts on this?

Oh, and I'm departing, too. No, not for good! I'm going to be gone for the next two weeks doing some traveling with my orchestra (see user page), so don't be alerted if I'm not throwing my two cents in over at WP:BAP. I'll wait for your message, though. Thanks. Cheers, Bratschetalk 5 pillars 01:49, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Mind Benders

Thank you for your submission to the pre-round of Wikipedia:Mind Benders! The voting has now begun, and you are welcome to submit one vote! In addition, why not try round one, which is now open? Round one consists of many challenging (I hope) problems that are lots of WikiFun! Hope to see you there! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 01:53, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello old friend

Essjay nominated me for Admin. Vote me in (or not) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Redwolf24 Redwolf24 01:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts

Hi Sango. Maybe you could give me your impression on the note I left Bratsche (right above yours)? I'm thinking he might have already signed off for a while, so he might not even answer it. Feel free to discuss the topic in my talk page, or here, if it's more convenient to you. Any input is appreciated, especially as the topic is somewhat superficial. Thanks, Redux 02:53, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pece Kocovski message

hey there Sango123, got your message, thanks for the greeting/welcome message.

Let's know each other a bit:

1.What's your speciality (eg: Fantasy,non fiction ETC)

2. how long have you been on the website.

oh by the way. can you help me out, i was trying to put an image of the "Sarevok" article but it says "missing image". I get a suitable image on "google" click of it, see full iamge, copy paste on the article but it says missing image.

Hope to see you reply back, Pece Kocovski.

[edit] User:Mkrueck

Thank you for the warm welcome! Mike

[edit] User:Palpalpalpal

Hello Sango123, thanks for the greetings :) .

I do have one question for which I did not find an answer in the Wikipedia docs. I only discovered that my contributions were logged after having made two new pages as well as a big edit, and now I wish I had registered sooner (I've been using Wikipedia for a long time, but until now I only corrected typos or small stuff), as I would have liked these to be listed in my contributions (not only because it's nice, but also to receive possible comments). As they're logged with my IP, and I made them just a few minutes ago, isn't there some way to tell Wikipedia that I am that IP? I expected that to happen automatically when registering, but apparently it's not the case.

[edit] Roak Barnstar, put this on your page

For stealing five or six of my welcomes. I've had a lot of edit conflicts with welcoming, and it's usually you. Howabout1 Talk to me! 15:42, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
For stealing five or six of my welcomes. I've had a lot of edit conflicts with welcoming, and it's usually you. Howabout1 Talk to me! 15:42, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

And we tell eachother at the same time :) Howabout1 Talk to me! 15:45, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Have fun with your new Barnstar! :D Sango123 15:53, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
*Does a happy dance* Howabout1 Talk to me! 15:49, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:Sophrosune

Thanks for the welcome message, Sango!

I'm going to thoroughly peruse the FAQ and formatting pages over the next few days.

One quick question, however—why are certain users' names in differnet colors?

Sophrosune 15:56, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:Javacava

Hey, thanks for the welcome message yesterday. I've been using Wikipedia fairly regularly for a while now, but I haven't really done a lot of editing. Oh, and when I get round to it, I'll be sure to turn these red links into blue ones!

Thanks again! :+) Javacava 17:04, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:EmergentProperty

Thanks for the links in your welcome message - I've been looking for something like that! EmergentProperty 18:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Mind Benders

Thanks for fixing the voting! No, don't worry- you didn't mess up anything. Try and find it! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 21:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:Lone Odessan

Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be a part of Wikipedia, and look forward to helping out. Thanks again, Sango. Lone Odessan 21:11, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From the Desktop of Phantomsteve

Thanks for the welcome, Sango123.... I've been using (and editing individual pages) for a few months now... I assume your attention was drawn to the "Vfd" discussions I've contributed to and/or my creation of a "Vfd"! Regards, Phantomsteve 21:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SiGarb

Hi Sango123, thanks for your welcome and useful list of reference pages: they will certainly be a great help to me. I have been referring to Wikipedia for a while, and recently I've made a few minor corrections to spelling etc. on pages I've visited, but I've also started to expand some plant stubs, add to disambiguation lists and so on.

Bye for now

SiGarb 21:58, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] dealing with contested entries?

I belong to a minority and in recent decades the production of knowledge about my minority has been in the hands of professionals and academics many of whom consider my group to be social outcasts who should be eliminated.

My problem is when I try and make my voice heard in the entry on my minority I am edited out...

Basically I am told that because I am a member of that despised group I can be excluded and ridiculed.

I have contributed cited references and proper sources for my contributions, but anything that might show my minority in a positive but balanced way is edited so the negatives are given prominence.

How should I deal with this?

[edit] Re: Sango123

Hey there Sango123, got your message, glad we know each other a bit.

Anyway on to buiessness, about the adding picture thing. here what i did;

i went to google images, typed in sarevok, there was a one picture i wanted, i click on it , i click on "see full size image" then on the picture i went "save image as" on my Baldur's gate picture file, after that i went to sarevok on wiki but i can't find "upload file" plaese help. reply back soon.

Pece Kocovski Pece Kocovski 03:25, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

ps: forgive my spelling mistakes.

pss: Sango123 might i ask, how did you get the name: Sango123, i mean no offence, just curious.(i got the "pss" from an internet cartoon if your wondering).

[edit] A phrase from your profile

"...and became a published writer at the age of 12." Woah! I'm trying to write and publish a ook of my own.. I'm almost 13 (1 month till my birthday).

Linkofazeroth 04:16, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

PS: I feel like I'm eavesdropping, but I looked at Pece Kocovski's discussion page and saw that you had said... "My 'specialty' is fiction and humor, preferably in short-story format." Startlingly, that's what the book I'm working on is, but with a space theme.

[edit] Re: Sango123 (again)

Sango123, about where to find the "upload file", i found it, i sometimes miss things even if totally awake(short term memory loss).

anyway, on my previous message, how did you get the name "Sango123" i mean no offence just curious.

Reply back soon.

Pece Kocovski Pece Kocovski 04:57, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adam Kingrey

Yeah, I will make a personal page. I was just having a little fun creating an encylopedic article to see what you guys would do.

  • Sango, can I remove the post you put on my user talk page that you meant to put on Adam's, or is there a legitimate reason why I should leave it there? Or maybe archiving would be better? I have yet to learn how to safely make subpages for my user page. ZachsMind 09:34, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
    • I have the same question, although it looks like the posts were made by Barista, so perhaps this should be directed to him. If that is the case, then your signature follows the new message. Is that supposed to happen? Do you know of any way to fix it? I've looked at the code and can't make head or tail of it. Thanks. Javacava 11:25, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
      • Note to self: Fixed - Barista accidentally edited User:Sango123/Message by clicking the smaller [edit] link, which led to the modifying of the template instead of the correct talk page. Sango123 03:00, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Question about uploading an image

Thanks again for offering to help if I have a question. Apparently, one has come up. =)

I have a picture of Sam Seder which I've pulled from [this website] on the Internet. It appears to be a better quality version of the same pose one can see at the [Majority Report] website. I would imagine it stems from press materials that MR has released for publicity purposes. I've attempted deciphering the [legalese] on various pages regarding how to determine whether or not a given jpg is useable for Wikipedia's purposes. However, I've failed in understanding whether or not I or Wikipedia would get in trouble if I uploaded [this graphic] to [this page]. Thanks ahead of time for any input you might have to offer. If you can't answer this, please refer me to someone who can. Thanks. ZachsMind 09:20, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

(cur) (last) 08:31, 17 July 2005 210.211.177.104 (cur) (last) 08:30, 17 July 2005 210.211.177.104 (revert: vandalism additions from prostitute Kama and her commercial advertising cleared) (cur) (last) 01:04, 17 July 2005 Kama

All my hard work which was well documented, sourced and cited has been deleted... I would ask you to compare my last edit with the emasculated entry that now exists. ( I have restored my previous edit but it would be very easy to compare my earlier version now restored with the entry of 210.211.177.104 that just removed all of my contributions and not just what was supposedly "advertising") I am very sensitive about not using the entry for self-promotion and I am really upset that this is used as a feeble excuse to delete all of my hard work. The devadasi have to really struggle to have a voice and this sort of prejudice is very hurtful.

I am more than willing to discuss my contribution and even have it subjected to arbitration but I have the feeling that the vandal is just someone who has harassed me in the past and is just messing with the entry to distress me. The Devadasi are a complicated and contested group and the production of knowledge about them has been hijacked by various partisan groups, but there should be enough room to acknowledge the contest and let the whole story be told. I know that the entry is supposed to be informative and not used as a platform so I think there should be room for an entry that investigates the nuances rather than denying a minority a voice.

[edit] Kama and the Devadasi

Dear Sango123,

The person who is deleting all my contributions is a troll who was first harassing me at my blog and has now brought his prejudice here. I am working very hard to make sure my contributions stand proper scrutiny and are most definitely not self-promoting, they are well referenced and researched.

I have tried to deal with this person reasonably but it seems they are only interested in creating a fuss and scandal about nothing.

I would welcome your advice and help.

I spent some hours this afternoon making some very useful revisions and carefully adding references and sources, and then as soon as I log-out everything is deleted. The vandal tries to suggest that I want to use the entry for self-promotion which is completely untrue, but this is a cyberstalker who has followed me about causing problems on other sites.

[edit] Many thanks

Dear Sango,

I am more than willing to sacrifice a link to my interview, if it will stop the edit vandalism. I have worked very hard to make the entry reflect a balanced view of the Devadasi issues and problems and the interview link is a small price to pay to ensure that the entry otherwise stands. I certainly will not reinstate it.

I have no objection to anyone contesting an issue and then discussing the merits of a particular position or contest and such contests should help in the production of knowledge, but these matters should be rational considerations of ideas.

Anyway I would be very grateful if you could keep an eye on things. I have added a small edit about the laws affecting the Devedasi.

Kindest regards

Kama

[edit] Reply to your reply on my talk page

Creepy it is. O_o I live in California... should put that in my user profile. :P Link 18:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

PS: On your user profile language thing... σκυ? Is that even a real language? O_o
Link

[edit] (Luke-Jr) Re: A welcome from Sango123

Thanks for the welcome. I joined to make an effort to correct misinformation about the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, it appears that caint doesn't want my contributions here.

[edit] Greetings & Thanks for the Welcome

Thanks for the kind welcome! I just recently discovered Wikipedia while researching background information relating to Homer Davenport's cartoons. This site has been FANTASTIC! It has pretty much found most of what I have been looking for. After seeing the structure and mission, I decided to put back and contribute some details relating to Homer.

Again, Thanks for the Welcome!

Cheers!

Gus Frederick Silverton, Oregon US

[edit] links between versions in various languages

I have a question. Assume that I create a page on fr.wikipedia.org for which there is already a version on en.wikipedia.org. How do I tell Wikipedia that the two pages are related, so that the one is referenced in the "in other languages" box of the other?

Thanks for the reply on my talk page. I did some work on the Wallonia page because I found it in a poor state as compared with its French version. I also created the page Politics of Wallonia to put some rather inappropriate text out of the way without actually deleting it... Peya 03:34, 18 July 2005 (UTC)peya

[edit] Thanks for your welcome message!

Thanks for your welcome message! I'm a Sun Microsystems intern in Colorado :) I plan to continue to add more Sun Microsystems related pages as time goes by :)

Have a great day!

Cheers

David Richard Bell

[edit] Joy

Dear Sango123,

a series of pages have been vandalized and locked by username Joy. Please let me know who this should be reported to.

Thanks. UCLA - Pasadena

[edit] Hello!

Hey, thanks for the hello! I'm pretty new here, so I might ask a lot of questions. I'll ask you Because you're the only Wikipedian I know. Mind Surfer

[edit] Thanks for the welcome!

Hi, Thankyou for the welcome message! It feels greats to have a personal welcome! Also there are some really usefull links in your message! Thanks!

Felsir 07:44, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sango123 message from Pece Kocovski

hey there sango123 me again thanks for the info on how to put on picture's. anyway if you want to see what picture i've done see the following: "Sarevok", "Gnoll", otyugh, ETC.

well thanks again, Pece Kocovski 07:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Misplaced welcome message

My mistake - thanks for catching it! (If I do it again, please feel free to correct it and hit me...) Shimgray 08:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for welcome

Hi, Sango123; thanks for the welcome. It is greatly appreciated, as are the links. MollyTheCat 09:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "UCLA - Pasadena"

Please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment/ARD and Jwalker and the linked pages for information about this whole affair. We've tolerated his mockery of our rules (and of common sense, even) for a long time... --Joy [shallot] 09:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vandal is back

Dear Sango,

I am afraid the vandal is back at the devadasi page and is just deleting everything I contribute because I am a prostitute and so I have no right to speak about the Devadasi. It seems he is a religious extremist based in Madras, so he is relying on associating me with the stigma attached to sex work to discredit my contributions, while resorting to threats to you and the other editors that he will sabotage other entries unless he gets what he wants.

He is deleting my entries in the devadasi discussion page and generally refusing to discuss any issue but just demand that my contributions be deleted.

I am happy for anyone to compare my suggested entry and his and see which one is better referenced, argued and balanced, but I don't think he is willing to deal rationally with the issues. He just wants to dictate the production of knowledge and I have a problem with that. He wants to present the Devdadasi as illegal social outcasts, I believe reality is much more nuanced than that..the devadasi are not illegal but certain dedication process are..it is important that entries address these complexities transparently.

I have not tried to reinstate the contested external links and I was very happy with the compromise you had suggested.

[edit] Devadasi reverted again!

http://www.medhahari.com/

It seems that Santap has a particular bee in his/her bonnet about the modern artificial divide that was created between Devadasi "High Culture"- Dance and Devadasi "Low Caste"- sexual activities. This is a common problem with High Caste elite Indians who just want to write the sexual aspects of the Devadasi out of History as deviant "prostitution".

Now there are a couple of vandals who do not contribute but just revert to a very simplistic early entry. I believe my contributions stand on their merit and am I happy for them to be considered on the basis of are they balanced and referenced.

[edit] merge two articles?

Hi, sorry to bother you, I have no clue where to request this (even though I read the FAQ). I'm updating the pages related to cleft: cleft lip and cleft palate. However 95% of the information is the same for both types of cleft (origin, treatment, complications etc. - from a medical stand point cleft lip and cleft palate are just two types or even just the severity of cleft) I would suggest to merge both articles into one article cleft and have the two others redirect. How does a procedure like this work and does it fit under the 'be bold' policy? Thanks in advance Felsir 11:33, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Devadasi again

Sorry to trouble you again... I tried a couple of reverts of my own and offered to discuss any contested points etc... but all that happens is they immediately revert back to the very early entry. I think I would find it easier if they were offering referenced opinions or alternatives readings of the issues, but I think it is just a personal prejudice against me regardless of whether my contributions are valid or not.

[edit] Devadasi: getting nasty

Dear Sango,

To explain my point, how would you react if I started contributing to the Christian pages with the material that shows that all Christian priests are either peadophile or homosexuals, and all the Christian nuns offer sexual favours to the high-ranking Christian clergy, and all the Chritian monks are drunkards and homosexuals?

The point is, an extremely small minority of Devadasis actually offered sex to the temple visitors, so there is no point in smearing all Devadasis.

If I start portraying Islam as a religion of terrorists, I am sure everyone would object as I object to Devadasis being called prostitutes.

Santap 05:56, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

The point is that contests like this can be discussed without bullying and taunts which Santap is still resorting to on the Devadasi talk page. Also it seems like a new account has been opened to do new reverts.

The history of the Devadasi would suggest that the various Devadasi groups have evolved until sexual services were a very siginificant part of their lives. This does not make them "prostitutes" and conflating the Devadasi with prositution is not helpful, but nor is denying their sexual services and reducing selectively their identity. My entry clearly and transparently addresses this contest and does not suggest that all devadasi are prostitutes but shows the nature of the contest and actually suggests the Devadasi are far more than "prostitutes".

I think Santap is just not able to make his/her points without resorting to unnecessary rants and insults. The analogies offered are not valid as the presumption behind them is not true and this sort of false argument has reduced the devadasi entry to edit war rather than reasoned discussion.

Kama 08:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Dear Sango,

It is getting very nasty over at the Devadasi discussion page with personal insults and racial comments so I am going to leave everything alone until you tell me what I can do...

I think they just want to make so much fuss that the entry gets closed or left as they want, but the bully boy tactics are very wearing and I don't have enough time to fight with people who have no interest in discussion but only want everything their own way.

I have added the entry to the active disputes at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Third_opinion#Active_Disputes

is there anything else I can do?

There seems to be a little gang over there just using the contest as a reason to attack me personally, and they reduced me to tears with their malice. I have no problem arguing for my ideas but these sort of personal attacks and lurid rhetoric just can't be dealt with rationally. I have been cyberstalked by a small group of very unpleasant people who have been threatening me for months. Whenever I participate in anything like this they just try and turn it into a crisis and scandal.

I put a lot of work into my contributions and I find this sort of bullying and censorship so hurtful. What should I do?

Kama 12:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, thanks a lot for the welcome. You've already taught me how to sign my name...

- Andy29 19:16, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism patrol

Hey, Sango, thanks much for reverting the user page vandalism. Ombudsman 19:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Who's RFA

Thank you for your vote of support on my RFA. ∞Who?¿? 19:58, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hi, and thanks for the welcome.

--rapheous 20:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The book I said I was writing

Would it be a bad idea to put a small article up on it? Link 21:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

No, haven't completed it yet. I'm going to try over summer though. 21:48, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank ye.

Hello there, Sango. Thanks for the welcome.

[edit] Help

Thank you for the welcome, and I have a question for you.

How do I put an article into a category? Thanks.

- Tahngarth

[edit] Copyrights

What are the rules and guidelines for adding copyrights to an article? Link 22:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

That is, in relation to the book I'm writing, and how I can keep my ideas from being stolen. Link

[edit] A Hello in Return

Thanks for the welcome message, Sango. Currently I've been caught up with the life outside of the digital world, so unfortunatly I haven't been able to start getting involved here. Hopefully when I have more free time (in two weeks time) I should be able to actually get some stuff done.


Again, thanks for the welcome. I'llt ry to get to work ASAP. ;D

- The Timeturner

[edit] The vfd tag thing

I'm so bad at setting that tag up. 3 parts, and I messed up on all of them. And you know what? All for a simple typographical fix in my reason for vfd-ing. I finally managed to get it to work (checking and doublechecking), but next time something needs a vfd, I'll let someone else do it.

That was a total rant, and the only reason it's here is to let you know I vfd'ed my stargems page.

[edit] Image message

Hey there, me again, i saw the message you sent me, glad you like the pictures, but about them.... i got them from google, and how do you tag them.

reply back soon Pece Kocovski 07:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Devadasi: truth will out

I have been so foolish.. I really thought that Santap had a real and sincere problem about the Devadasi and was genuinely concerned about the issues etc...

It seems that Santap is involved with the website of Medha Hari [1] and has been involved in creating an wiki-entry for her which is basically a promotion of her and is linked to her commericial website. Then the Devadasi entry was used to highlight her and link to this medha hari puff piece.

So when the devadasi entry started to grow and take on issues that didn't have a fit with the Medha Hari promotion. Santap started to revert to the entry that basically highlighted her rather than discussed the Devadasi. I couldn't understand why Santap was going to that revert because it still contained references to the Devdadasi and prostitutes, however the entry is so simple it is not much more than a glorified link to Medha Hari The Medha Hari entry has been identified by others as an advertisement and spam but presently the entry stands and I don't have a particular problem with that, but I do resent attempts to manipulate the devadasi entry to keep her overly prominent as she is not even a Bharatnatyam master ..yet, and also manipulating the entry to sanitise the Devadasi in apparent keeping with her promotional interests.

I therefore find Santap's accusations that I was using the entry for self-promotion to be incredibly ironic in these circumstances.

Kama 11:57, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Help (from Pece Kocovski)

Sango123, help, i got a message from a person called "Bryan" saying the images i put on don't have tags on them so they may get deleted, please help, i don't know how to tag them.

Reply back soon Pece Kocovski 12:15, 19 July 2005 (UTC). (By soon i mean REAL SOON.)

[edit] Celebrating

Hi! I've just crossed a symbolic milestone. Three thousand edits! I feel like celebrating. Have a cigar! Don't worry, I don't smoke them either, but it's all good :)! Cheers, Redux 14:58, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Since you asked, that's the beauty of imaginary cigars: they can taste like anything you want! How about...strawberry? ;) Redux 15:15, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Congrats!

enjoy!
enjoy!
bottoms up!
bottoms up!

Now that's a coincidence! Congratulations!! Allow me to repay your kind dessert table (I thought it'd be fitting to use the same image, since it's the exact same number of edits – I still can't believe it..), and something to wash it down. Also, I'm honored that your 3000th edit was in my talk page! :) Keep up the good work, and as they say in the song: and many more... ;) Cheers, Redux 18:38, 19 July 2005 (UTC)




Thanks for the cocktail! I'm starting to wish that we could actually eat and drink all that stuff. Blast the internet and its limitations! ;) Redux 19:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How do you like the current version of the Devadasi article?

Sango asked me, How do you like the current version of the Devadasi article?

I think it is excellent and huge improvement over the hotchpotch that was there before !!! Some of the "flesh trade" language is a bit value laden for me, but I think it is looking very good...

I am going to leave well alone for a couple of days so the new entry can settle in and then I will see if I can contribute something to the entry that is worthwhile.

Hopefully this new entry will see the end of the edit war.

Sango said, "I'm glad you find it somewhat acceptable."

I think it is a wondeful entry, and I will leave it for a couple of days because I am rather over excited at the moment and I just want to enjoy reading it and appreciating the effort that was put into it. There will be plenty of time for any small edits later on when everyone has calmed down and reason is prevailing.

I have been so grateful for your guidence and advice and I have written a thank you to the author of the new entry, your polishing also made it a much easier read.

I think this episode shows how wikipedia can really work.

[edit] Thanks and Directional Question

Thank you for your welcome message.

I have one quick question, is there a standard template for biographical entries? Seems like there are a lot of wiki pages out there that are biographical in nature and their format is all over the place.

--P Todd 16:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Just spotted you welcome message, I have not really got on top of what Wikiworld is yet! Will depart from the routine and read the manual before I break it!

Best wishes

AntaineNZ

[edit] RfA

I'll do that and thanks for supporting mine. Howabout1 Talk to me! 19:23, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

By the way, whats your native language, you don't list one under babel. (Is it squrrel? :) Howabout1 Talk to me! 19:26, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Ok. Looks like your RfA is going great, but its only been up for a few hours, so you can't tell. Howabout1 Talk to me! 19:31, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Done. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 19:38, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RfA and a question

I voted for ya. ^_^ And a question: why is your name green?

Ah. Well, that seems to make the 123 part of your name link to your talk page and leave teh Sango part leading to your user page. Weird. Link 21:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gack

I was linking to some orphaned pages, and when I went to remove the pages from the list, I completely messed up the link to the linked and the linkee. It's supposed to be SYSTEM programming (and sytem software), and I messed up the System_software link name... oh, just go here. Any way you can fix my edit summary?

Exactly. Bad errors too.
Will do. And I forgot my ~~~~ thing, hehe. Link 22:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your RFA

Seriously, I was thinking about nominating you just the other day. This vote was not rocket science: a very strong support. Good luck, and I look forward to welcoming you into the ranks of admins! Bratschetalk 5 pillars 22:30, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Overwhelmed

You know, I kind of feel overwhemled. I don't know where to start or what to do to help here. Any suggestions or ideas? =| Link 22:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I just did some red link recovery stuff. ^_^ Link 00:36, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GREETINGS

Greetings from xxx123 ,Pece Kocovski told me about this site if im not being rude i would like to ask a few questions: How old are you? How did you meet Pece? How do i incert pictures? Whats tagging?

Im only 13 years old help me out here

From xxx123

[edit] THANKS FOR THE MESSAGE

YOu rocke dude!! please when ever you get a update please let not know about it From xxx123

[edit] Strawberry cigars

(From User_talk:Redux)

hahaha... congratulations on your milestone. I ended up mushing the cigar and chewing the tobacco. I really need help. --Deathphoenix 15:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
You don't need help; that was brilliant! I'm trying it with my artificially-flavored strawberry cigar. ;) Sango123 15:49, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Dang, that would have worked better. I'm still trying to get the last of the tobacco from between my teeth. Good luck on your RFA! --Deathphoenix 04:31, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pece Kocovski images

Sango123 i've gone through a couple of the images i've put on a found the which website there from:

(URL's removed) Sango123 18:52, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

I've gattered up what website there from, from googlo, by seeing the bar where it says (eg:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sango123&action=edit&section=40), is that what you want to know?

ps: could you teach me how tou tag the images, please.

hope this helps.

Pece Kocovski 09:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

(please note that the GNOLL image is the same as the Gnoll, i just made the mistake of outting it in all capitals, could you delete it.)

[edit] Self-reference for Pece's images

  • Image:Tn Sarevok.jpg - tagged
  • Image:Sarevok.jpg - tagged
  • Image:Minsc.jpg - on WP:IFD
  • Image:GNOLL.jpg - on WP:IFD
  • Image:Gnoll.jpg - said on website All images (c) Different atrists' conceptions of the Creatures of Faerún - tagged
  • Image:Ettercap.jpg - said on website All images (c) Different atrists' conceptions of the Creatures of Faerún - tagged
  • Image:Otyugh.jpg - I couldn't find anything on its copyright status, so I suggest removing it from the article since there's already an image to illustrate it.
  • Image:Umber hulk.jpg - unverifiable: website is not in English
  • Image:Carrion crawler.gif - said on website Copyright (c) 2000-2005 PlanetADND.com - All Rights Reserved - tagged
  • Image:Illithid.jpg - http://abandonedrealms.wolfpaw.net/realms/races/illithid.php - said on website Copyright 2005 Abandoned Realms - tagged
  • Image:Bugbear.jpg - said on website All artwork and content (c)2001 Wayne Renolds - tagged
  • Image:Bugbear dark allience.jpg - tagged
  • Image:Two Ogres.jpg - tagged
  • Image:Kevin Michael Richardson.jpg - Copyrighted and irrelevant to Sarevok article - removed and on WP:IFD
  • Image:Uruk Hai soldier.jpg - tagged
  • Image:Group of Uruk Hai.jpg - Possibly a crop to remove text and a {{screenshot}} tag - tagged
  • Image:Lich.jpg - unverifiable: website is not in English

Sango123 13:11, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Listed remaining three images on WP:IFD. Sango123 18:16, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

The mop is mine!
The mop is mine!

Thanks for voting in my RfA; I promise I'll wield my sacred mop with care. If you ever need me for anything, you know where to find me. Thanks again! -- Essjay • Talk 15:21, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

thanks for the welcome. It'll take me some time to read throught the guidelines. i thought you were a Wiki auto response for newbies for a second. i've been reading wiki for a long time before i joined and didn't realize that people actually did all of this. crazy. thanks, sango, got me on he ground running.

Peace --Pointyfingers 17:15, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

damn homie, you're 14? i wish i was 14... --Pointyfingers 17:22, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm not 14, but that's close. Sango123 17:23, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
oic. sorry, then, no offense intended. --Pointyfingers 18:31, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
Don't worry about it; I was just wondering how you came up with the number. Sango123 18:40, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vote for deletion

Hi Sango

Im currently try to get an entry for bosh, but it is being somewhat milined, i was wondering if your could give me any tips to improve the strenght of my argument. Furthermore, what presicely is invloved in the voting process? Who counts up the votes and decideds who has won? When does the voting end?

[edit] Kama

Hello, Sango123! Good luck on your RfA. I just wanted to make you aware that User:Kama's user page is exactly the same as yours. I'm not sure what's going on, but I just wanted to let you know. Thanks! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 20:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kama

Dear Sango, he must have been quick ! I used your "user page" as a template for about 30 minutes so I could write something about myself using your page as template. I get confused with the formatting and so thought why not use yours as an example. I never imagined that anyone would see while I did it..who would be viewing my user page ?? Anyway my user page was completely personalised within 40 mintues and I am very sorry if this caused any confusion.

Kama 12:32, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] thanks for the warm welcome

my professor turned my class onto wikipedia and asked us to register and edit a few things as an assignment so i apologize if my entries weren't the best quality. i appreciate your offer to help and may take you up on it as time progresses - i think i may poke around for awhile since this is such a terrific resource. thanks again --Poiballs 01:36, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] certain images message

Sango123, thank you ever so much on tagging the images, i couldn't have done without you.

About the "group of uruk hai" image when i saw it on google, clicked on it, and lead me to the website with the image as a screnshot or something.

Are you going to delee the images that are not english?

reply back soon.

Pece Kocovski 03:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] thank you for your welcome message

I ve been reading wikipedia for a while. It is a great source of knowledge and an awesome project. --Marlino 05:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Andrew Haas

Hey, Andrew Haas is the President of USA? Toya 14:59, 21 July 2005 (UTC) The thing is, that in the article "List of Presidents of the United States" it's written that Andrew Haas is the President of USA. Toya 15:48, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Er? Vandalism. Redwolf24 16:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Yep, taken care of. Strangely enough, "Andrew Haas" was the name of one of my old American History teachers. 0_o Sango123 16:20, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Just noticed

your message enquiring my age. Ah youll find that out after I win my RfA :) Redwolf24 16:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

I suspect you're younger than 16.... Sango123 16:22, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
I suspect you're younger than 30. Redwolf24 16:30, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Touche.
Lmao, we'll see who's younger once you win your RfA. :) Sango123 16:34, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
Aw, bureaucrat Ilyanep is 13. Now my age is nothing special :P Oh by the way my RfA is only about 85%. If I don't watch it I could have a failed nomination... Redwolf24 22:43, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pianist

Have you thought about recording those portions of your repertoire for which we have no (or inadequate) recordings and posting them to the commons? The Uninvited Co., Inc. 16:31, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] xxx123 more questions!

Hi sango 123, not to be rude but i have a few more questions do you live in Australia? and if you do where abouts? Do you have a ps2? and if you do what games? sorry to ask so much questions if you don't want to answer them its okay. My birthday is on september 30 whens yours? see ya!

Xxx123 00:51, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

You always find the best food pictures! What's your secret? ;) Redux 01:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

First of all, thank you so much for your kind words and support in my RfA. About the pics, I'm starting to put on weight just from looking at them. And so bad is my gluttony that I actually found myself picturing those 9,000 chocolate chickens. Thanks for the tip on the list of food-related images. Treadmill, here I come. Redux 03:05, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Answers to your questions

Hi sango, I was born in victoria(Australia) I live with my Grandparents because my dad and mum got diviorced. How long have you been a Wikipedian for? And I don't understand what you mean by Wikipediholic score of 400 Answer back soon

Xxx123 02:52, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Certain images deletion

Sango123, i assume that "consent" means ok so, Sango123 you can delete the images that are in your red text.(the ones you can't find there source.)

by the way, thanks for tagging all the images i've put on Wikipedia, you've been a great deal of help.But for the images you can't tag, i give you permission to delete them

thanks again,reply back soon.

Pece Kocovski 03:11, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi sango123

Hey its xxx123 heare, Pece told me that you are a girl is this true?

Image:Hatashi kakashi-sensei.jpg
An image of kakashi from naruto.

And why doesn't my image come up only the summury does see ya!


Xxx123 03:33, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the welcome

I have little time in my day to look and learn about Wiki-life but hope to contribute meaningfully soon when I have picked up more than just the basics. I haven't discovered (I've searched) why some name tags are blue and some red. Can you point me where to look for this sort of presumably FAQ? --yonbig 11:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)11:35, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Promoted FPC
Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted
Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Willow catkin 2 aka.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates.

[edit] Thanks for the welcome

Hey, thanks for the welcome messege. Very kind of you! I find this a great resource and hope to contribute soon.

X2-PB 20:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Sango123

So youre a girl thats cool. If you are really thirteen you type like an adult you must be very mature. I am a boy, also you told me that you couldn't find my image im going to have to look into that. Well talk to you later, bye

Xxx123 02:50, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wow, Im older than you

I was just about to reveal my age and I see Im older anyway haha, anyways my birthday is 9/29/1990. Back to editing (I'm enjoying my AdminShip, but it needs a cook) Redwolf24 02:55, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi gaybo

Hi your mgay i hater you your a girl (OMG! Redwolf24) and your stupid ill give you a virus

u4rfvbn >:/j;s5?/shutdown? trojan horse be cdt4w 9 cfg >?> ikldgni

aka--but licker u stink

ykk;:::./'/,]64tb

Apple123 07:50, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

How nice... my first hate message. Replied on user's talk page: Please adhere to Wikipedia:No personal attacks. The message you left on my talk page was undoubtedly spiteful, and if you have a problem with any of my edits, feel free to notify me in a civil manner in compliance with official Wikipedia policy. However, if you merely have issues with my gender, as you have hinted at, please leave your derisive comments outside of Wikipedia. Refrain from posting personal attacks in the future unless you wish to face severe consequences. Sango123 20:03, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
See his talk page. Blocked for a week for unprovoked, repeated attacks after being warned, plus he threatened a virus. Redwolf24 20:59, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
OMG A GIRL!!!11111111!!!1 Oh noes this faggy admin bloked mi, ibe t he likes gurls HAahaAahaHAaAhAha (im so alone :() Redwolf24 23:00, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
I think Red was a little soft on him; virus threats are inexcusable for any reason. I've blocked indefinitely. -- Essjay -• Talk 23:45, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] One step at time over at Devadasi

Dear Sango,

I have started to edit the Devadasi entry keeping my edits small and clearly labelled...but I would be grateful if you could keep an eye on things over the next couple of days.

Kama 08:19, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Mind Benders

Hello, Sango123/Archives/July 2005. Thank you for submitting an entry to the pre-round and/or participating in round one of WP:MIND. I sincerly hope you enjoyed it. Round Two, which I have made a bit more difficult than round one, will open at approximately 2 PM EST, Sunday, July 24. In addition, the voting for pre-round has also been extended until the end of round two. I hope to see you at Round Two, so prepare for some WikIFun!!! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 17:09, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copy-edit

Hi, Poli! Thanks for the copy-edit on my user page. I had thought about doing so myself, but I guess I was too lazy. :) Regards, Sango123 22:04, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Sango! I got to your page from the RfA article, and, by the way, I think you will be a very fine adition to the admin team. One of my most active jobs has been to fix date formatting, inclunding once in the Main Page, first because I thought it was a good idea, then because I selected some weird format preference and happened to like it! :) So, everytime I pass by some date, I promptly note if it isn't following my (at first) weird preference, and get it formatted. :) Well, I might be the first to congratulate you on adminship, but as I think you are already there anyway, congratulations!!! See you around, and keep up the good work.-Poli (talk • contribs) 22:22, 2005 July 23 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

If you care at all, I listed you at User:Redwolf24/Friends. Go remove yourself if you see fit :O :P Redwolf24 (Talk) 00:26, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome message - reply

Jemebius 14:54, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Hello Mrs/Mr Sango123,

My thanks for your friendly and informative welcome message. I understand that even sandbox contributions are taken for serious.

I visited Wikipedia already many times before, not in the last place whenever it was mentioned in a USENET newsgroup post. I have now been reading sci.math almost daily for over a year, and I feel a certain need to contribute to a less volatile internet media than the newsgroup. There is arXiv, there is Wolfram's Mathworld, there is my own website, and there is of course Wikipedia! I found out that Wikipedia offers the easiest-to-use facilities to share one's knowledge with other interested people.

My reason to make finally a contribution to Wikipedia is my desire to make a systematic account of the relation of 4D and 3D geometry to quaternion algebra and its applications in practical computer science, aerospace engineering and so-called pure mathematics. Fortunately my favourite keyword SO(4) was/is still free.

I hope to emerge from the sandbox sometime in the next week.

By the way, I guess that Wikipedia's Village Pump should not function as a kind of Grapevine or Rumour Mill. Am I right?

Best regards: Johan E. Mebius

Notice
This is an archive. Please leave new messages at User talk:Sango123.

[edit] Your revert

Thanks for the revert. That really was me though, I have a new skin and I was seeing what new messages look like. Howabout1 Talk to me! 18:15, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Howabout1's RfA (again)

Hi. I am copying this message to everyone who voted on my last RfA. By some strange twist of fate, I have been nominated (within 48 hours, it's probably a record). Please vote again. Howabout1 Talk to me! 21:05, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] thanks

Thank you for your welcome message.

[edit] Suggestion for your "Message" page

Since I accidentally posted to your "Message" page, it's been on my watchlist, and I've noticed that a lot of other people are doing the same as me. I think you can fix that problem by removing the section header from the "Message" page; that will also remove the "edit" link that throws most of us for a loop. Just a suggestion. - jredmond 18:25, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks and question

Thanks for the welcome and can you help me to understand why my edit was reverted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_individuals_executed_in_Alabama&action=history

[edit] Reversion...

Hmmmm, so give me time. I have links for hundreds of memorial pages. Why delete one link to a memorial page for a victim simply because there aren't links for other victims? That was only the first one I had done, but certainly I did not intend for it to be the last.

There is a link to an article that is specific to one of the killers on that page. Additionally, that article includes a sentence which does not sound neutral regarding capital punishment, "The tortuous manner of his execution is frequently cited by opponents of capital punishment in the United States."

I think it is important to remember the victims of violent crime, which is why I added a simple link where people who visited that article could click to view more information about the person that was lost as a result of the crime that landed Dunkins on death row.

[edit] Thanks for the advice... What do you think?

Hi there,

Thanks for the useful info that was posted on my talk page. Even the amount of help material is intimitading in the Wikipedia! :-) There's an article on a local school (Notre Dame) that I've gone over and made a significant amount of changes that I'm happy with. I'd really appreciate it if you could have a look at my revisions and let me know what I should improve on etc. Thanks again, and good luck with the adminship!

Oh also, regarding the article, I believe it should be renamed (or I should say "moved") to "Notre Dame Catholic Secondary School, Burlington, Ontario" but alas, I am too new to make the change myself. --Mrtea 22:47, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliments, Sango! :-) My reason for moving the page is that the school is officially referred to as a secondary school (ie. the school's letterhead, website) and doesn't actually have the "Roman" in the offical title. The current title of the article just really doesn't sound right to someone who's gone to the school for four years. Thanks again, Mrtea 00:43, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image deletion

Sango123, did you get my message, because i said you can delete the images that have not been copyrighted, ok?

See you soon Pece Kocovski 00:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion

Sango123, you can delete those images if you wish, but only the ones listed on my talk page, the one in a yellow box okay.

see you soon Pece Kocovski 03:06, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Welcoming

Yeah, he's the creator of that particular template, and I forgot to modify it to link to my talk page. Before I reqalized it, I had used a TON of those linking to Ilyanep. I thought I might as well leave it as is, since the whole point for the template is to welcome new users. Link 14:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture trend

Red fox in Hokkaido.
Red fox in Hokkaido.

I'm spotting a trend with the pictures on your user page, so here is a nice red fox too (although should the panda really be there, since he isn't a Canidae ;-) -- Solipsist 15:17, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Image:Redwolf-tn.jpg
A much prettier Red Wolf. They're almost extinct...

My image is better. Redwolf24 00:23, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] just to say hello

thank you Sango123 for you kind reception.

I like contributing to the English Wikipedia as far as I can.

Normally I'm using the German one extensively (and a little the Italian) and other Wikis (News, Quotes and Wiktionaries).

I like to switch from one to the other in order to enhance the study of an entry. From time to time when missing an article in German and find the subject in English I like to translate (sometime with modifications)

Best wishes

JohannesMarat 22:28, 26.7.05 Berlin

[edit] Thanks...

For the welcome and links. Finally got around to making a little personal page as well. --Aboverepine 20:29, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adminship!

Mop up!
Mop up!

Hey Sango! I wanted to be the first to congratulate you on your adminship! I know the vote hasn't been closed and the actual adminship bestowed yet, but the voting period is already over, and it was a landslide!! Good luck with your new attributions! Congrats, Redux 22:12, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations, you're now an admin. Please exercise due caution and forebearance in the use of your newfound capabilites, and take a look at the Administrators' reading list and Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide if you have not done so already. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 22:39, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Congrats, Next time someone yells "Who's mess is this?" It's not mine, feel free to mop it up. :). ∞Who?¿? 23:07, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Congrats my Squirrely friend! Redwolf24 00:13, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Congrats on getting the mop. :-) --Deathphoenix 01:31, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Not that it comes as a big surprise (unanimous support is fun, hm?), but congratulations on becoming an admin. Welcome to the Cabal! :) You will soon be contacted by one of our... associates. They will give you further instructions. :P Best regards. --Sn0wflake 01:51, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
More congratulations from me (another musical wikiwoman!). Thanks for the cake... now you get your very own mop, bucket, and clue stick for just such occasions, and well-deserved, too. :-) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 03:04, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations, and you're quite welcome! --User:Merovingian (t) (c) 03:40, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
Hey, congrats on your adminity, I'm sure you'll do a great job! Thanks for the hot chocolate, too, it warmed me up no end! :+) Javacava | leave a message! 11:49, 27 July 2005 (UTC)


CONGRATS and good luck with that all powerful mop you now hold! I'm sure you'll do great, and be great at the same time. Oh, and thanks for the thanks :). -mysekurity 02:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Logs

Besides replying at my talk page I wanna leave you a link to your logs to watch over you. :-P Redwolf24 (Talk) 01:53, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello and a question

Many thanks for the notes on how to use/edit/write for Wikipedia. I have been slowly going through them.

I have a question about an article on St. Dominic. I am somewhat offended by both the tone and the poor history of the article. Both are, I believe, due to the source listed at the bottom of the article. If I wanted to correct this, how would I go about it without offending whoever wrote it? It would take me some time, but I wouldn't mind. Thanks in advance for your time and assistance. Iubilus 03:49, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RfA

Well, I'll support you, of course, because you really deserve adminship. Just one question: are you a boy or a girl? Deryck C. 03:59, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not sureifI did the right thing, but...

User Jayig (the i is a diacritic symbol that I can't figure out how to use) moved the page Kiyotake, Miyazaki to WIKIPEDIA IS ISLAMOFACIST. I reverted it bact to Kiyotake, but the second page is still there as a redirect to Kiyotake. Should I put it up for VfD? Link 15:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

No prob. ^_^

Also, user rv_vandalism jut blanked the Vandalism article. Someone reverted it just now, though. (Would you call this Wikitattling?)

Will do. I'm bound to see alot of stuff welcoming new users through Recent Changes.

IP user 24.6.111.148 just blanked Albus Dumbledore, and I forgot how to revert pages. :P
And IP user 152.163.97.151 blanked and redirected Bill Clinton to Sperm.
Possible vandalism of Guerrilla Rock by IP user 63.22.160.92.

Hehe, I'll take a look at that.

I'm not sure whether this is vandalism or not, but maybe you can figure it out: 1696 page history comparison

Ah, ok.

Uhh... is this disguised vandalism here?
And I think Michael_Yuke is a sort of misplaced user page, and the only contributor is User:Mikeyuke.


[edit] Thanks!

Hello Sango! Thanks for the pie, I really like those. ;) I see you are already fighting vandalism with your new powers, I expected no less from you. :) Thanks again! -Poli (talk • contribs) 17:17, 2005 July 27 (UTC)

[edit] The message

Hi, Sango. I hope you didn't mind mine jumping in to help out the newbie. I was about to call it a day when I stumbled across his request for guidance, so I thought I can take another five minutes and take care of this. Thanks for your compliment on my answer. Redux 19:49, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your support Sango! I hope that you return soon, we will all certainly miss you! Redux 04:59, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Need your help

Hi Sango,

Thanks for the welcome message. I am trying to figure out how to post back a page on Wikipedia namely OWTEN that was unjustly cut out claiming "copyright infringement". I am the original co-author and webmaster of the OWTEN page and Womennet claims I copied their article which they have cut and pasted from our original home page. I have posted this on the talk page of OWTEN. How do I get back my page on Wikipedia?

Regards, Cana

[edit] RfA thanks

Wow, you put a lot of work into thanking people for your RfA. You gave me 1.5 cupcakes, someone else a cake, and another person a wikithanks. Thats a good sign for things to come right there. Howabout1 Talk to me! 04:31, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the Message

Thanks Sango123. Before when is was making pages people were palming it off as nonsense when in fact it made perfect sense. Can I stop people deleting pages I have already created?--C18 16:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the cookie.

Good Wiki-luck in your Wiki-endeavours when you get back from Wiki-break, Sango! If I knew how to virtually give you something in return, I would, but haven't figured that out yet. =) ZachsMind 19:25, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Just want to say thanks for formatting my article. I have read the guidelines etc. but there's so much to take in at once! :-)

Fourleaflucky 19:33, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas Garret

Hi, I noticed your deletion of this article. Looking at "What links here" I see that a lot most (about 7 against 1) of our articles on the subject linked to this article instead of Thomas Garrett, and so just deleting it isn't good because it breaks links--it's better to just edit it to redirect to the more substantial article. Also looking at Google I see that a substantial number of articles on the web misspell Garrett's surname so people visiting Wikipedia are likely to type the wrong name in. Again a link is useful. I have restored the deleted revisions (there were no valid grounds for speedy deletion) and installed a redirect. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 20:34, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WikiBreak

Whats happening, why you breaking? Your friend, Redwolf24 22:40, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Say, Sango123, you think you could tell me how to change the titles of articles please?

N. Harmonik 22:50, July 28, 2005

[edit] Thanks!

By the way, do you know how to delete double-redirect pages?

N. Harmonik 01:18 July 29, 2005

[edit] ah

okay i will stop but i hate ja rule --24.228.6.212 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Why did u blocked and unblocked me?

Why did u blocked and unblocked me? MANOS

[edit] Unfair

I change the article about the Ancient Macedonian language and I prove with facts (I even post an url of a Britannica topic in the talkpage) that Chronographos is wrongs, but he insist rv the article without proving me that his thesis is right. I suggest u to read the talk page. I didn't do anything wrong. If I can't write the truth, I shouldn't even try to contribute in here. If I have to argue with users each time I change smth, then it's not an encyclopedia, but a forum. :'( MANOS

[edit] thanks for the Hi!

Just feeling my way around, but decided to be bold - I made a pretty minor edit to Jungle Carbine

[edit] Plz help me.

You can help me, if u tell the others in the Talk:Ancient_Macedonian_language that I'm right (which I already proved) and they are wrong. For God's shake the rest articles (Hesychius of Alexandria, Macedon etc) supports my thesis, that ancient Macedonian language was Greek. For example in the article of Hesychius of Alexandria says that "Hesychius of Alexandria, a grammarian of Alexandria, (probably flourished 5th century CE) compiled the richest lexicon of unusual and obscure Greek words that has survived". How the heck can be possible that the words are Greek, but the language isn't? Also Britannica [1] and other encyclopedias mention that the Hesychius wrote a GREEK lexicon. So obvious the Macedonian language is a Greek dialect and it isn't any doubt about this. Even other ppl of that period said that (Hesiod for example).
So I want to write the truth in the article and not lies. Here another false theory in the current article:
{
Due to the fragmentary attestation widely diverging interpretations are possible. The suggested historical interpretations of Macedonian include (Mallory and Adams (1997), p. 361):

a Greek dialect mixed with Illyrian languages.
a Greek dialect mixed with Illyrian and the Thracian language.
a Greek dialect with a non-Indo-European substratal influence
an Illyrian dialect mixed with Greek
an independent Indo-European language close to Greek, Thracian and Phrygian languages.
The discussion is closely related to the reconstruction of the Proto-Greek language.
}

They came in this conclusion, because a few survived words in the Hesychius Greek lexicon have non-Greek origin. But that doesn't mean that the language or the word itself is non-Greek.
For example "bibliotheka" is a Greek origin word. But the word is not Greek, but English and it is used in the English language. You can not find this word in a Greek lexicon, but in English. So obviously they can't claim that the language is not Greek because they were a few non Greek origin words. Also they can't claim that the language was mixed with foreign languages, because the survived Macedonian words from the Greek lexicon of Hesychius are around 700 and the most of them have Greek origin.
There are other false statements in the article of Ancient Macedonian language, too. Plz tell the others to let me change the article and that their thesis are wrong.

Thank you in advance, MANOS

[edit] say hello. :)

I am like a baby, I improve my cognitions by your example -- Roger tellme 21:03, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I say hello :)---- Roger tellme 22:47, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belated thanks

A very belated thanks and congratualtions on getting the sacred mop. I hope you'll be back from break soon and off cleaning up the wiki. -- Essjay • Talk 21:34, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I hope so, too. ;) MANOS

[edit] Strange diff

Can you explain this strange diff to me? -Splash 01:25, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah, it was a move from my user page. Thank you. I thought the anon had done something to your account somehow. -Splash 01:38, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My turn

My turn to thank *you*, now. Knew I supported your adminship for something. ;-) Have a relaxing wikibreak... Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:55, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hero of Belarus

Thank you for helping revert the vandals. I knew vandals could target the article, because some want to use that page to trash Alexander Lukashenko. However, I noticed many just blanked the page. Thanks again, keep up the good work. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:18, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Signature

That may be a good idea. I will see what I can do! --[[User:Merovingian|Template:Sig]] (t) (c) 10:20, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] About Ancient Macedonian Language

I think that u should watch the talk page and if they don't prove their thesis within 48 hours from the time I post the following, u should tell them that I have the right to change the article.

Here is what I'm planning to post. Plz let me know if u think it's OK:

An admin of Wikipedia told me that if u don't prove in 48 hours that I'm wrong, the article will be change. !!I will add that if u agree that u should give them 48 hours to prove that I'm wrong.

Note: I never told anyone that, and I remain neutral in this discussion. Sango123 19:02, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

So here is my thesis about ancient Macedonian language:

1. The lexicon of Hesychius is a Greek lexicon:

1. [2]
2. [3]
3. [4]
4. [5]
5. [6]
6. [7]
7. [8]
8. [9]
9. [10]
10. [11]

2. The article mention:
{
Due to the fragmentary attestation widely diverging interpretations are possible. The suggested historical interpretations of Macedonian include (Mallory and Adams (1997), p. 361):

a Greek dialect mixed with Illyrian languages.
a Greek dialect mixed with Illyrian and the Thracian language.
a Greek dialect with a non-Indo-European substratal influence
an Illyrian dialect mixed with Greek
an independent Indo-European language close to Greek, Thracian and Phrygian languages.
The discussion is closely related to the reconstruction of the Proto-Greek language.
}

How did u came in that conclution? I guess that because the origin of a few words were non-Greek, u assumed that the words were non-Greek, too. So the language was non Greek.
In that way "bibliotheka" is a Greek word, because it's origin is Greek and the English language is Greek language too, because "bibliotheka" as u know is an English word. But if u open a Greek lexicon u wont find that word. On the other hand u will find it in an English lexicon. So obviously u can't claim that the ancient Macedonian language was non-Greek. The lexicon was Greek. So the Macedonian is a Greek dialect.
Also u can't claim that the language was mixed with foreign languages. The number of the survived Macedonian words from the Greek lexicon of Hesychius is too small (around 700 words) and the most of them have Greek origin. So we can not made such conclusions about the language.

3. Hesychius of Alexandria article states that "Hesychius of Alexandria, a grammarian of Alexandria, (probably flourished 5th century CE) compiled the richest lexicon of unusual and obscure Greek words that has survived".

So according to u although that the words were Greek, the Macedonian language was non-Greek. But how is that possible? Is there any other x language that is constructed by non-x words?



Conclusion: It was a Greek lexicon, which means that the ancient Macedonian language was a Greek dialect. So we should change the article.

MANOS


What do u think? Plz free to add any comments in my talk page.

Thank you in advance,
MANOS


Ur post is good, but I think that I should mention somewhere that I have admin's support. What do u think?
MANOS 13:41, 30 July, 2005

I'm here to help you present your thesis, not to support it. Thanks, Sango123 19:02, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

OK. I guess u are right. But keep in mind that when I asked them many times to prove their thesis, they didn't answered seriously. They were talking about other things. So I want to make sure that if they don't prove that I'm wrong and I change the article, u will support me if they try to rv it. OK? Because if u don't then there is no point to post that. I'm 99,9% sure that they will rv it even if they don't prove their thesis. MANOS 13:53, 30 July, 2005

I meant that I have ur support for changing the article if the others can't prove that my thesis is wrong. Not that u support my thesis. U had already told me in my talk page that u don't know much about this subject. ;)
"I'm not as knowledgeable as you are in this subject, but your argument here is convincing. Of course, I haven't heard the other side of the argument, so do you think it would be appropriate to copy your message (modified a bit) from my talk page to Talk:Ancient Macedonian language and politely ask other editors for their sources?"
Forgive me for the misunderstanding.
MANOS 19:05, 30 July, 2005

I'm afraid you can't have my support; if you don't get a satisfactory answer within the time limit you set, I can't endorse any action you take or any action you have taken in the past, since I don't endorse your thesis. Thanks, Sango123 19:25, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedia or Forum?

Right now Wikipedia isn't an encyclopedia, but a forum. Ppl write anything they want and if they don't agree each other they talk in the talk page. Is a forum... no doubt about that. It needs a lot of work till the day that it will become an encyclopedia.
Besides the Ancient Macedonian language issue, which is obvious that is a Greek dialect, ppl don't even let me to write the correct number of Bulgarians and Macedonian Slavs inside Greece. In the article about Bulgarians, I change the estimation of the Bulgarians in Greece, with the number of the official census of 2001. But VMRO continues change it with an unknown-source estimation. I gave him the link that provides the number of foreign ppl in Greece according to the census of 2001, but he doesn't change his mind. He doesn't even talk to the talk page in order to prove his thesis. Same thing happens to the Macedonian Slavs article. The article claimed that they were 10,000 ppl according to estimations (once again) and when I change it with the number of the official census, VMRO once again rv the article. But in both articles never provide an url that supports the estimation. Even if he had provided, it's obvious that a census is more reliable than an estimation. In census they reg all the ppl of the country. Because this thing it's too difficult, they usually do that one time each 10 years. I also prove in the Macedonian Slavs talk page that the census of the Greek goverment is reliable and it doesn't have any intentions to hide anything. Right now the Macedonian Slavs article says that the number of the Macedonian Slavs in Greece is unknown and that there is no census data exist for the Macedonian Slav population of Greece!

I also del 3 external links to propagandistic sites. 1 of them even claimed that Macedonian Slavs aren't Slavs!!! The rest 2 for example claimed that Macedons (ancient Macedonians) weren't Greek. All the links claim the opposite that is written in the related articles of Wikipedia. I think that external links is supposed to support the articles and not to support the opposite!


Obviously, there is no point to argue with stubborn ppl in here. If I argue and I change the articles they will report me for 3-RR violation. For God's shake I'm trying to change the number of Bulgarians and Macedonian Slavs from May! I don't want to waste my time with stubborn ppl or propagandist.


I suggest u to do smth about it, because right now Wikipedia has low credibility.


Regards,
MANOS


What about this issue? I want to change the numbers of Bulgarians and Macedonian Slavs in Greece. Take a look in this web page about the foreign ppl according to the official census (2001). [12]

Also I want to remove this link:
[13]
This site claims that Macedonian Slavs aren't Slavs!!!
[14]
Of course that is the exact opposite of the article's thesis.

Also I want to remove these 2 links, too:
[15]
[16]
This site claims the exact opposite of the Wikipedia's article about Macedon.

Both sites are 100% propagandistic sites. :(

MANOS 14:20, 30 July 2005

The problem is that VMRO doesn't let me to change it. My source is the Greek census from 2001. I think it can't be more reliable. ;) On the other hand VMRO continues changing it without even posting an url or something. Also VMRO claims that his number is estimation. Besides that he is claiming that there isn't any census data for the Macedonian Slavs in Greece. Of course that is untrue. What should I do? MANOS 15:44, 30 July 2005

[edit] Canderson7's RFA

Thanks for supporting my RFA, and congratulations on your own recent promotion! --Canderson7 16:47, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:Jcx

Thank you for my nice welcome to wikipedia, Sango123.

I hope that I have done nothing wrong, and I also must admit that I am relatively ignorant on wikipedian policies. I have tried reading the pages on editing and making new pages, but I am afraid that I have taken most of them in the wrong sequence and have benefitted very lightly from them.

Perhaps you have advice that I could benefit from.

Once more, thank you for your civility and welcome, and I hope I have done nothing that is frowned upon. --Jcx 18:03, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for such a prompt response. I am glad that my contributions are not to waste. My biggest source of confusion is with copyright. I wish to post a movie poster for the Sky High article and the Michael Angarano article, but I am not what steps I should take.

Thanks again, --Jcx 18:14, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank u for inform me in time that u were bull****ing me

"I'm afraid you can't have my support; if you don't get a satisfactory answer within the time limit you set, I can't endorse any action you take, since I don't endorse your thesis. Thanks for your understanding, Sango123 19:10, July 30, 2005 (UTC)"

I asked for ur support in writing the truth about an article and u told me the only thing I had to do is to open a discussion in the talk page of the article and ask from the others to support their thesis. If they weren't in position to support their thesis, then I had the OK from you and YOUR SUPPORT to change the article. If they would support their thesis, then I wouldn't have the right to change the article or ur support to it. Obviously u lie and u never wanted to involved in it. So don't tell me that this is an encyclopedia. I support my thesis with facts. I gave reliable sources like Britannica. I even gave 10 links to support that the lexicon was Greek. I even use logic (Greek words, alphabetical order etc). The others didn't do a thing. They didn't answered any of my questions. Or should I say they couldn't.
So this web site is not an encyclopedia. This is a forum. I waste my time. If I wanted to chat about this I would go to a forum, not to encyclopedia.

I don't care if more ppl in this forum read the truth. Who give a shit? At least I know the truth. I don't care about the others. If the rest propagandist here want to fool themselves, they have the green light from me. I really want to see ppl humiliated themselves when they wont be in position to support their stupid thesis.
For God's shake, I can't even post the correct number of Bulgarians and Macedonian Slavs, although I gave a link with the OFFICIAL 2001 CENSUS. So don't even dare to tell me that this is not a forum or that they aren't any propagandistic material or propagandist in here. Don't u dare...

Have a nice day, MANOS


(what a jerk...)

hi Sango123 -- what is this "thesis" business? That sort of approach is completely foreign to wikipedia. If people have a claim, ask them to back them up by citations of scholarly literature, not by dodgy Socratic arguments. Wikipedia:Cite your sources, pure and simple. All pertinent scholarly opinions will be cited. In this case, user wanted to remove attributed opinions, which will be unacceptable in any case, "thesis" or no "thesis". Best regards, dab (ᛏ) 19:51, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


I ask from the users to support their thesis. They couldn't. Where are the links? No where. Do u want scholars opinion? OK. I'll give u scholars opinion... but the problem is... that this scholars claim that Macedonians were Slavs!!! But they are scholars. Would u really going to post this? I have another one who claims that Macedonians were Chinese, Homer Turk etc. All these are scholars. Are u really going to post these bullshits?

MANOS

Are u really going to post these bullshits?
I think that ppl should know that there are scholars who believe that Macedonians might be Greeks, Illyrians, Slavs, Thracians, a unique nation, Chinese and I don't know what else... it would be really funny. Can u imagine it?
"Macedonians might be Greeks, Illyrians, Slavs, Thracians, Chinese or even a unique nation. Scholars are really debating for their origin." :-P lol
That would be really funny., don't u think?
But as u said I have the right to do that, don't I? :-P
MANOS


it's ok; I realize you were apologetic because of the premature block; the user is just trolling though, and his 'thesis' a complete strawman. It's just much safer to say that Wikipedia will stick to reporting academic opinions, and that it's up to him to cite references. regards, dab (ᛏ) 07:27, 31 July 2005 (UTC)



lol There are many scholars who believe the same thing with me. Are they straw men, too? I thought u didn't found scholars as straw men. :-P
"It's just much safer to say that Wikipedia will stick to reporting academic opinions, and that it's up to him to cite references."
OK. So I guess that u have to post that Macedons are (or should I say might?) Chinese. Out there is a scholar who believe that. Or do u want scholar opinions that are supported by more than one scholar. There are a few scholars, who believe that Macedons were Slavs!!!
Do u ever go to college? Because if u did, u should had realize at least in that period that ppl with diploma are still ppl. If the other has diploma doesn't mean that he knows everything about his subject. If u go to the ancient Macedonian language talk page, u will see how I prove that linguistics can came to any conclusions. But the whole article of the ancient Macedonian language is based on linguistics!!! How the heck u manage to post this article and u don't post mine? Mine is been supported by Hesiod, Hellanicus, Herodotus even the own Macedon nation! Ur article is supported by onle linguistics, who aren't in position to prove a thing.
Conclusion: Either u are a propagandist or a man with a lack of knowledge in the specific subject.
If u believe that the article is not a propaganda, just explain urself in the talk page.
MANOS

[edit] User:Manos

1. Deletion of links.

User Manos has deleted the links which he did not like and left only the ones he had nothing against. The same approach was attempted by User:Miskin in the Macedonia article where he erased all links which were not Greek and grounded his act by stating that "We, Greeks, know best, the rest is only propaganda". With regard to topics which are controversial (Macedonia is as controversial as Kosovo and Bosnia) and where there are several national narratives, which are completely different from each other, links to all possible points of view should be provided. It is not the editors but the readers the one to decide which narrative they choose and whether they choose any narrative. In two words, User:Manos broke the NPOV rule.

2. Number of Macedonian Slavs in Greeks.

The number given by User:Manos is the number of the legal Macedonian emigrants in Greece. The article regards the indigenous Macedonian Slav population in Greece - which, by some organisations and most notably by Helsinki Watch Greece, is estimated at ca. 240,000 people. These numbers are greatly overexaggerated (in my opinion) as they include all people of Slavic descent in Greece and Slavic descent does not make anyone automatically a Macedonian Slav. Yet, even the Greek government has admitted to the existence of around 10,000 people, who live predominanly in the district of Florina and who HAVE a Macedonian Slav national consciousness.

3. I would urge you first to read through the talk page of Macedonian Slavs in case you have any further question. All possible issues with regard to the article have certainly been the subject of discussion there already. VMORO 13:11, July 31, 2005 (UTC)




"User Manos has deleted the links which he did not like and left only the ones he had nothing against."
1.
a. 1 link was claiming that Macedonian Slavs aren't Slavs!!! This was against the article. If u believe that this is correct, then I'll suggest u to change the article and let the link. If it's incorrect then u should del the link.
b. The rest 2 links were against the Macedon article. If u believe that this is correct, too, then I suggest u to change the Macedon article and let the link. If it's incorrect then u should del the link.

In all the cases, the links were against 1 or more articles in Wikipedia. Really I do not care if u let them or del them. It's fine with me. I wont argue anymore. There is no point for arguments.
This is not an encyclopedia as I had mentioned so many times. This is a forum. So u have the right to post any thing u want as in forums. ;)

2.
a."The number given by User:Manos is the number of the legal Macedonian emigrants in Greece." The number given by me is the number of the illegal and legal ppl that are citizens of FYR Macedonia and they are living in Greece. The ppl that they wrote the census data were not police officers. They didn't ask for papers in order to find out if they were legally or illegally in the country. What do u think it would happened, if they weren't legally in the country? Would they arrest them? :-P

"The article regards the indigenous Macedonian Slav population in Greece - which, by some organisations and most notably by Helsinki Watch Greece, is estimated at ca. 240,000 people."

The number given by me is about ALL the ppl that have FYR Macedonian citizenship. Keep in mind that ppl with Greek citizenship have Greek nationality, too. I think u can't claim that there are other 239,000 Macedonian Slavs in Greece without FYR Macedonian citizenship. ;)
Keep in mind that the method of calculation of a population in a country is different from country to country. Greece prefers this kind of calculation. I had already mentioned the reason in the Macedonian Slavs talk page.
Also even u, u said that the number is "over exaggerated".
Don't forget that Helsinki Watch claims that the 40% of the ppl in FYR Macedonia are Albanians instead of apx 25% of the official census of FYR Macedonia. But in the article of Macedonian Slavs, the number of Macedonian Slavs inside FYR Macedonia is according to official census of the country and not to Helsinki Watch. The same apply to the rest countries.
So could u plz explain us why we should write the number of Macedonian Slavs that is mentioned by Helsinki Watch?
U said that the number seems "over exaggerated". So do u believe that is a reliable source?
Also keep in mind that Greek government said according to 2001 census that the 7,3% of the population of the country are foreigners. Now days it estimates around 9%. On the other hand US claims 2% and EU less than 5%.
Do u believe that the number of Greek census is really unreliable?
Or do u believe that the method of census, which happened once per 10 years, because of the cost is so unreliable than the method of Helsinki Watch?
Never a man from Helsinki Watch came to my house. So how the heck they count ppl? Guessing? I really want to lean about this method, which is even more reliable than counting each person inside a country. ;)

"Yet, even the Greek government has admitted to the existence of around 10,000 people, who live predominanly in the district of Florina and who HAVE a Macedonian Slav national consciousness."
link?
Let's see what google thinks:
In English: [[17]]
In Greek: [[18]]
Nothing. Really wierd huh?

If they had Macedonian Slav nationality consciousness, it would be shown in the census. Or did they earned this consciousness after the 2001 census? :-P

PS: I don't care anymore what are u going to post. Do whatever u want.
MANOS

[edit] Thanks!

Thank you for voting for me in my RfA! Thunderbrand 15:18, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for the message; an additional question

Thank you for the welcome message! I appreciate the links. I do have an additional question regarding the rules of Wikipedia - specifically, the use of the Talk pages nearby certain articles. I have recently started asking for clarification or additional information relevent to a specific article, for reasons of my own personal curiosity. As a result, I suppose the questions do not directly contribute to the writing of the article (though it may cover additional information on the same subject that might be useful to add to the article, or that others may be wondering about). Is this a misuse of the web site?

Thank you very much for your time and assistance. -Brasswatchman July 31, 2005. 3:03 PM EST.

[edit] RE: User:Bidiot

Looks like Boris Krylov, User:Bidiot (Talk), is doing a commercial plug for his own site. WikiDon 19:05, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

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