Talk:Santos-Dumont 14-bis

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Contradicts claim of Wright brothers; ref "First flying machine" article for more discussion. - Antonybarka

Brazilians claims that 14 Bis was the First flying machine. - basic information, as a Brazilian I'm tired of hear this on TV. --Brazil4Linux 02:23, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• I don't believe there's any contradiction, because the article describes the controversy of the first flight. And, besides that, if we think about the "real first flight", then we should "give the medal" to Sir George Cayley, or maybe to Otto Lilienthal. Anyway, I think the message about contradiction should be out of the article...10:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• There will always be discussion on that. My guess is that Santos Dumont performed the first flight that resembles what we see in today's aviation.

• Given that there is an entire article focusing on the controversy: eg first flying machine Perhaps the best thing to do is add reference from both this article as well as the Wright Flyer article to "first flying machines" thus avoiding any sense of contradiction while still acknowledging the controversy. Blimpguy 14:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• I also think the message about a non-world-wide view should be removed. That "First Airplane" section explains the controversy, lays out why it is that one could define the 14-bis as the first practical airplane, and also explains how one could define the Wright Flyer to be the first practical airplane. This section shows that the accomplishments of Santos Dumont and those of the Wrights are not disputed, and explains how controversy arises simply from how different people choose to define "first practical airplane", without favoring one definition over the other (but stating the fact that Brazilians do overwhelmingly favor one definition - a fact that cannot be reasonably disputed). Malfita 10/10/2006. (Yes, I am Brazilian, but as an aerospace engineer and amateur aviation historian, the truth is I would hate for the accomplishments of either Santos Dumont or the Wrights to be ignored, forgooten, or overshadowed by the other).

I reverted changes to intro paragraph made by Lostan. I thought it was confusing (made it sound like article was about the inventor, not the invention). Also, too much detail for introduction and all detail covered in later sections. Glendoremus 18:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)