User talk:Sam Spade/ - archive/September 2005

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Contents 1 Thanks 2 Vivekananda 3 Re: Your signature 4 Girl 5 from Talk page of Existence of God 6 Redirect of I am 7 Vishnu sahasranama 8 Apologies Accepted 9 Wiki4u and Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman 10 Museveni on peer review 11 Polyandry 12 Barnstar 13 Thanks 14 Francophobia 14.1 Adminship 15 From Raja 16 New article 17 Cryptohistory 18 Re:Richard Allen 19 Rosicrucian article 20 New Article and Help 21 Dispute resolution assistance 22 Thanks for contributing to Girl! 23 New article 24 Ayyavazhi Panthestic View 25 Jade Age 26 Thanks and request 27 "Mind" and "Psyche" rewrite @ Human 28 NPOV dispute at Surat Shabd Yoga article 29 another user 30 New article 31 Rudraksha 32 Re: Fascism to Democracy 32.1 More About your beliefs

[edit] Thanks

Thank you for the welcome Devin

And thank you for being here! Tasks you can do 20:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome from me as well, and for the 4 tilde thing! TransUtopian 21:15, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Glad to help! Tasks you can do 21:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vivekananda

Sam, there's a counter to Ayyavazhi's influence on Vivekananda. See, the talk page - Vaikunda Raja

[edit] Re: Your signature

Sam, so you're aware, I've added your actual user name back to the welcome template you place on new users' pages. I'm asking you for the last time to alter your signature back to your user name; I will proceed with a Request for Comment if you refuse, because this is an important issue for obvious reasons, in particular when you're placing comments on the pages of new, inexperienced users. Exploding Boy 17:32, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Don't vandalise my template or signature. Tasks you can do 20:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I did neither, I simply made it clear who had left that post. While I appreciate your cooperation in changing the sig on the template you use, I will proceed with a Request for Comment if you do not alter the signature you regularly use. Exploding Boy 00:00, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

One may place {{unsigned}} at the end of an unsigned remark. WAS 4.250 01:47, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Girl

Why did you move the talk page? --Janke | Talk 18:11:53, 2005-08-31 (UTC)

I didn't, check the page history. Tasks you can do 20:22, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

You replied: Well, at one time the article redirected there, so I guess they wanted to be consistant. I tried to comment, and when I realised the talk page was a redirect I undid it, and moved my comment here.

So that's why the COTW tag disappeared? --Janke | Talk 20:43:20, 2005-08-31 (UTC)

PS: I have corrected my statement on both Talk pages. Thanks for explaining! --Janke | Talk 21:05:11, 2005-08-31 (UTC)

It's a beautiful painting, but yes, one could say she may be too old to be a "girl", depending on how you define the word, and where you draw the age-line between girl and young woman. I remember seing another picture there (maybe via history), which was much younger. A nice painting or photo of a 5- to 10-year old might perhaps be better? --Janke | Talk 21:26:03, 2005-08-31 (UTC) (PS: Why make it so difficult to get to your talk page?)

• I put a GDFL photo onto the page, not very good, but better than no image at all, right? ;-) --Janke | Talk 05:53:41, 2005-09-01 (UTC)

[edit] from Talk page of Existence of God

• Content move for reasons of space, click here for content

[edit] Redirect of I am

"I am" is a copula. A copula is the connecting link between subject and predicate of a proposition, or a "linking verb." It makes sense to redirect this page to copula. It does not make sense to redirect to God, just as it would not make sense to redirect "to be" to existence. Exploding Boy 01:08, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

What an amazing coincidence that you found yet another petty opportunity to pester me on my talk page. If I didn't know you were such an upstanding admin w no personal antagonism for me, I'd add this to a long list of evidence of your wiki-stalking. Sam Spade 09:10, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Look, we can discuss this or you can continue to [PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED] revert, and I might add that according to the history for that page you don't have any support for you position. Why are you redirecting to God? Exploding Boy 16:35, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Talk:I am. Sam Spade 13:52, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vishnu sahasranama

Hi, Sam I put the article in peer review. But since most Wikipedia readers don't know about Vishnu sahasranama and other articles I write, what is the point about peer review?

Raj2004 15:25, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, some wikipedians do know, and hopefully they may see it. Also there may be some broader issues, such as formatting, requests for images or explanations, and etc.. Lastly, it is the last step before Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates, and it helps a bit to show you have observed all formalities ;) Please be sure to let me know when you have nominated an article, or would like me to nominate an article, so that I can help keep an eye on things. Cheers, Sam Spade 15:32, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Good point. You are right that there must be some who know.

Thanks!

Raj2004 15:55, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, we have some few Hindu editors, but also we have a good number of scholors interested in the vedas, and Indian history and etc..., even if many of them are secular academics. Sam Spade 15:58, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Apologies Accepted

Apologies accepted, Sam Spade. Oh, by the way, would you mind reconsidering your vote at WP:MC? That would be very much appreciated. Thanks! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 00:11, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

[1]. Cheers, Sam Spade 00:50, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I trust the issue is amicably resolved? User:Nichalp/sg 06:54, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, sure thing. Sam Spade 22:59, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki4u and Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman

Hi, As you welcomed Wiki4u (talk • contribs), maybe you could take a glance at User talk:Wiki4u and the article Mir Shakil-ur-Rahman. Major edit war and wholesale breach of Wikipedia guidelines that needs admin attention. Tearlach 23:42, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Tearlach 11:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Museveni on peer review

Hey SS, just thought I'd let you know that Yoweri Museveni is now on peer review as you have contributed to it previously. I thought now was about the right time, as it would be good to get a feel for the kind of things people will say in WP:FAC now, rather than pressing ahead with expansion and then having to change a whole load of stuff later. TreveX^talk 11:08, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Polyandry

I wonder you can advise me. The article on polyandry would seem to be related to partible paternity. I have drafted an article but since it has to be partly speculative (and I say so) I've put it up for the time being http://www.gendys.mcmail.com/partible.htm to save cluttering Wikipedia's server if people don't like it.

Votes for inclusion please! Chevin 12:25, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

I,

V. Molotov

, hereby give you this Working Man's Barnstar for diligent work on Wikipedia.

Take care,

V. Molotov

15:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

[2] I read over your user page... nice formatting! We share an interest in classical music (I like Bach, Beethoven and Mozart best, for europe, and you?) and african-american history (I am esp. interested in Jamaican leaders and rastafarian prophets, like Marcus Garvey, and Africa itself). Maybe we can find an article to edit together sometime. I also like to talk alot, so if your ever in the mood to discuss some deep or controversial matter, feel free to have a look @ User:Sam Spade/Theoretical Biases and its corresponding talk page. Nice to meet you, and cool sig, btw. Sam Spade 15:39, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for responding. What happen to your wavy signature? Perhaps we may find an article! I am looking forward to that!

V. Molotov

18:22, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Francophobia

User:Marskell/Anti-French sentiment is (more or less) ready to go and it was posted on requested moves to Francophobia. Just thought you might speedy it as it doesn't need to be voted on and you stopped by to discuss it at A-F sentiment in the U.S. once in a while. Thanks, Marskell 18:25, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adminship

You note you're not an admin and I can't imagine someone with as many edits hasn't been nominated before. Maybe you've had problems or whatever but noticing your attempts to be helpful I have no problem making a good faith nomination myself. Marskell 23:06, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

That might be ok, but I suggest you reasearch it more 1st. User:Spleeman/Sam Spade might be a good starting point. My estimate is that I'll be an admin within about 4 years, once enough "haters" have moved on. Sam Spade 00:40, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, relatively recent conflict and pretty involved so maybe wait longer; I'll keep it in mind though. Cheers, Marskell 17:15, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Yep, thanks. Sam Spade 17:20, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From Raja

Sam, sorry for the delay I,ve some network problem. Iam going into the article Christie Jayaratnam Eliezer, and if you don't find difficult, what is NPOV and POV? - வைகுண்ட ராஜா

[edit] New article

Sam, Thanks very much for your patience. And feel sorry that I know nothing about Christie Jayaratnam Eliezer. Then in the Vivekananda article we placed that, Ayyavazhi followers suggest that Vivekananda wears turban from Swamithoppe. Do you think it should be removed and only the quote from the book of Poulose should be placed?

Then there is a new article and a tiresome work for you - Article Sampooranathevan. If you don't find difficult,Please copy-edit. this article needs a major work. Iam too poor to use direct and indirect sentences. Also, there may be too many gramatical errors. Being not a native speaker of English I feel too hard with the correct usage of the language, Thank you. - வைகுண்ட ராஜா.

Thanks for your help Sam, I too did a little work, and now take a look to the article. - வைகுண்ட ராஜா.

[edit] Cryptohistory

If it were anything else but this toxic topic, I'd say that might be entertaining... After a long day at the circus drinking beer with rolly polly, jolly Mr Goering, the world famous fighter ace, her uncle came home to find his nei... uhm, never mind (I do have an imagination, I can't help it, maybe it's a part of my "don't gross me out" early warning radar or whatever). Not speaking for you (and not implying you'd even come close to being that abusive with editing such an article), I wouldn't touch it with a hazardous materials robot. Wyss 18:50, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Richard Allen

Thanks for the message. I left his image, and I'll come back.

Take care

Good work on the Richard Allen article; he was a giant that deserves more notice. KHM03 22:52, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, and how about that picture User:V. Molotov found, it seems to sum up his character rather well, I think. Quite a nice image, that. Sam Spade 22:56, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. KHM03 01:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rosicrucian article

• Dear user Sam Spade, as I remember you where very kind at my first beginning at Wikipedia and giving me motivation to write the Max Heindel article. I come now to request your support to the Rosicrucian article that I have just purposed for nomination at Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates#Rosicrucian. I request if you may give a look into it and, if you consider it acceptable, then if you may support it. Thank you! :) --GalaazV 02:05, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Article and Help

Sam I am now with another new article Thirumal in Thiruvananthapuram and request to do what you can with it. - வைகுண்ட ராஜா

[edit] Dispute resolution assistance

The birthyear for Paulette Goodard has changed many times. I finally changed it to unknown and with each new edit of the birthyear have reverted requesting the source in the edit summary. The Talk:Paulette Goddard page has been set up with criteria presented and what the criteria for the info source should be since there have been so many opinions. Everyone ignores it and continues it edit. I have searched the web myself and found six different years, and the page itself has been edited with as many different years.Amerindianarts 23:14, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for contributing to Girl!

		An Award
		For your contributions to the CotW focusing on Girl in September, 2005, I, Mamawrites, award you, Sam Spade, this THANK YOU.

[edit] New article

Sam, I've created a new article, Venneesan. - வைகுண்ட & ராஜா

[edit] Ayyavazhi Panthestic View

Sam, Have I provided enough information. See:Talk:Pantheism - வைகுண்ட & ராஜா

[edit] Jade Age

Hi Sam, I have some questions about the Jade Age that I have raised on Talk:Three-age system and would be grateful to read your response. Best wishes adamsan 21:49, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks and request

Thanks a lot again for your help and for your works in Arul Nool, Venneesan and Thirumal in Thiruvananthapuram. Please take a look into the expanded articles Kaliyan and Kalicchi. - Vaikunda & Raja

Sam, take a look on Talk:Pantheism

[edit] "Mind" and "Psyche" rewrite @ Human

Could you comment on this RfC? Thanks. ≈ jossi ≈ 20:02, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

That is the last bit that needs to be done before we can submit Human to featured article. Do you know of an editor that could do the rewrite? ≈ jossi ≈ 15:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I made a great deal of edits to human, and reviewed Talk:List of people who have said that they are gods. I'm not really sure what to say there, or where to say it in that chaotic mess of text. I think such lists are interesting, and yet prone to POV and abuse. The best answer is to specifiy and compartmentalise what is being listed. Manson and Jesus should not be on the same list. Also, the Popes don't claim to be God as a general rule, and practically nobody regards them in such a way w any seriousness; it mainly comes up as a criticism from anti-papists. Let me know what you think,

Sam Spade 20:48, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Good job at Human (are we ready for FAC?), and thanks for your comments on List of people who have said that they are gods. That article will be fixable only of editors there collaborate in a more welcoming environment. ≈ jossi ≈ 20:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I completely agree, the talk page there seemed hostile, and made me feel like yelling at someone, but I wasn't sure who ;) Sam Spade 20:58, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the links, Mr Spade ! I do hope that in my modest attempts to edit certain Wikipedia entries, I haven't violated too many of the precepts dear to the hearts of more experienced and knowledgeable users....

M. Henri Day

[edit] NPOV dispute at Surat Shabd Yoga article

If you would be so kind, please take a look at - and make any needed edits to - the Surat Shabd Yoga article to help improve it and ensure it reflects NPOV. Thanks, — RDF ^talk 20:16, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] another user

You may want to check this out. KHM03 20:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New article

Sam, I've created a new article. Take a look into Rules and Regulations to God-heads. - Vaikunda & Raja

[edit] Rudraksha

Since you are intrested with rudraksha, take a look to this link. It provide some thing. - Vaikunda & Raja

Cool, thanks! Maybe I'll buy one. Sam Spade 01:24, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Fascism to Democracy

If you don't mind me asking, how did you make that transition? Sam Spade 01:18, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I made that transition because I've been thinking about my whole life, when I was young I always thought I was just being brainwashed by Democracy's ideals, so I began to follow fascist ideals. But then I've been looking at the political parties of fascism in America. And they all prove to me that what my ideology was, was just completely insane, I saw for what those people were, evil bastards. Then I began to read about what democracy, and I found that it truly different than what I thought. So then I now believe in democracy. If you need me to clarify more than I will. Private Butcher 01:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Interesting... I study politics alot, and it was fun to think we had an openly fascist wiki. Oh well... Have you seen http://www.politicalcompass.org/ ? My results (and various other opinions) are @ User:Sam Spade/Theoretical Biases if your interested. Cheers, Sam Spade 01:42, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Well I took the test you told me, and what I found intrigued me. I put the results at my userpage, under a subpage "politics". Thanks for showing that site to me, it was very interesting. And I've seen your political beliefs, and those interest me too. Private Butcher 18:45, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Looks like we agree alot, which is fun. Even our alignments are quite close (I sometimes get lawful good, its my clear runner-up). Let me know if you feel like discussing such things sometime, the only thing I like discussing more than other peoples opinions are my own ;) Cheers, Sam Spade 19:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Well you like to discuss your opinions so I have a question now. Tell me about your anti-prison beliefs, I just want to know what you think on it. Private Butcher 19:21, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

This is one of my most central issues, actually. I think imprisonment is a human rights abuse, as well as being cruel and unusual. Man is a nomandic animal, and not ment for confinement. Also, american and 2nd and 3rd world prisons are rife with assault and degradation of the spirit.

I propose 2 (possibly 3) alternatives, each based on the morality of the criminal. Firstly, for those who are conclusively proven to be guilty of wicked and unforgivable crimes, I prescribe death, taking place in the manner most efficient for society. If that be organ harvesting, medical or military experimentation, or gladitorial combat, the market can decide.

Secondly, for the vast majority of those criminals who do something wrong, but not evil (like stealing a car, or having a fist fight at the pub), I prescribe indentured servitude, w 1/3rd of the profit going to the state to pay for their maintenance, 1/3rd to the victim, and 1/3rd going into a savings for them when they are finished, or to be given to their loved ones in the case of their death. Military service might also be an option in some cases.

The third category is more dubious, and involves illness or or mental defect. I'm not sure if that category is waranted, and if it is, it should be used rarely. The right response might be intensive reprogramming, or perhaps deportation.

Finially, I would point out that "moral" crimes, like killing someone who raped your daughter, or a woman killing an abusive husband, should not be punished at all. Sam Spade 19:44, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More About your beliefs

I thought our original conversation was getting to long so I started another thing. Finially, I would point out that "moral" crimes, like killing someone who raped your daughter, or a woman killing an abusive husband, should not be punished at all. Sam Spade 19:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Your other things are pretty good ideas, but a why should a government who would judge have to chose what crime is "moral" or not. No crime is moral, every crime is wrong. Even revenge, revenge or killing in anger is a horrible thing to do. I live in Washington D.C., stuff like that happens all the time, they all should be treated the same. They all deserve death for murder. If someone raped my daughter, I wouldn't "hunt them down" like some action hero and kill them. I'd hunt them down then do everything in my power to send them to hell in life, then hell after they die (as in making them suffer in prison, then they can go to hell when they die). That's just the one large flaw I saw, because anyone could commit a crime and claim it was "moral" because no one could testify against them to prove otherwise. Private Butcher 22:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

My primary concerns in deciding how to treat someone are altruistic, trying to treat them as well as possible, and self interest, trying to do whats best for me. If someone has an excuse, thats very different to me from someone who doesn't. Maybe their should still be some consequence (like indentured servitude), but frankly I don't understand why killing a bad person, or protecting oneself, should be be punished. Thats the altruism. Also, I don't like there being laws against stuff I, or other nice people might do, or at least not some horrible penalty. Thats the Self interest, for me at least ;). Sam Spade 22:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm all about self-interest, I'm kind of like, you do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't mess with me and who I care about, and what I do. But I think that they deserve punishment for breaking what I just said, even if they did something to you first, and you were doing it in revenge, the person that did the revenge, still deserves some form of punishment, it doesn't have to be death, but it can be servitude like you said. But I just think they still do deserve something. Private Butcher 22:37, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Thats a very Libertarian viewpoint. Curiously, neither of us scored as libertarian on that test, not socially, and not economically either. What I find interesting is how well I get along w libertarians, and how comfortable I would be if they were in power. If I was king, my society wouldn't be very libertarian at all. I'd have loads of benefits, and extremel;y high taxes on things I disapproved of. But since I'm not king, I tend to feel more safe w libertarian leadership. At least I know they won't interfere w my attempts to be charitable ;) Sam Spade 15:10, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

After you said that the view point was very libertarian, I decided to retake the test. I took almost 30 minutes thinking about all the questions, and my results came out very differently. It's at the political subpage in my userpage if you want to see. Private Butcher 19:11, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Its interesting that your views changed so much, I've taken that test maybe 10 times, and the results havn't changed much at all. You should check out political spectrum. I consider myself a Radical centrist Populist, but most people just call me unclassifiable, or right wing ;) Sam Spade 20:45, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay I have something to tell you that's completely in confidence. I need you to do make a page, and don't let anyone have the ability to find it, and I have to tell you something. I really don't want anyone to find out, I just think I can trust you with this information. Private Butcher 00:50, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Then don't say it here! Email me if its confidential. Theres an "email this user button" on my user and talk pages. Or you can try this: Special:Emailuser/Sam_Spade. Sam Spade 00:59, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about that. I'll send you an email saying it then. Private Butcher 01:02, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

There I sent it, and I'm pretty sure I know what will happen next. So I guess this is probably goodbye. Private Butcher 01:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Nope, your secret didn't upset me, see your email. Sam Spade 01:15, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, I thought you were going to "put the hammer down". I feel so much better that I told someone, I really didn't think that like more than two or three people knew what happened. I thought it was a pretty quiet thing, but I guess that's all I'll say. Private Butcher 01:21, 28 September 2005 (UTC)