User talk:Sam Spade/ - archive/Mai 2005

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Contents 1 Harmonious Editing Club 2 FYI 3 Thank you 4 Hey 5 please explain how 6 Thanks 7 thanks for the Welcome 8 Ludwig Kaas 9 searches seem odddddd 10 If only more people read NPOV 11 watchlist question 12 welcome message 13 AMA Meeting Proposal 14 updating/editing 15 Thank you for the information... 16 PV 17 Raj2004 18 Thank you. 19 Thanks! 20 Thanks for the welcome! 21 Appeasement 22 Mitigation of POV 23 Prussian Holocaust 24 Thank you for the welcome message 25 Many Thanks 26 Hello 26.1 Related users 27 Hello 27.1 Related users 27.2 Hello again 28 Thanks for the welcome 29 Preussen Gloria 30 Re: Thanks! 31 I seem to have messed up. 32 Chavs and nerds 33 Many thanks

[edit] Harmonious Editing Club

I just joined that today, but most of the messages give me the feeling that it no longer does anything. I have no legal background. However, I try to remain neutral and like to mediate. Should I join the AMA or your detective agency? Please respond on my user or user talk page.Mred64 02:33, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The harmonious club is just a pledge that you won't revert a given article more than once a day. I expected more when I joined, and when I saw they wern't interested in doing anything, I quit. The AMA involves advocating for a particular user, often representing them or speaking for them in hotly contested circumstances. I'm not sure how neutral that is ;) My detective agency is neutral in my eyes, but certainly not in the eyes of my critics. It is also primarilly geared towards information gathering, networking, and upholding wiki-policy. That doesn't mean we don't do a decent amount of mediation, but i admit its not our emphasis. Finially, there is the Wikipedia:Mediation commitee. They are a bit difficult to join, and in the opinions of many get precious little done, but their emphasis is on neutral mediation. So... give it a bit of thought and research, and I'm sure you'll find a wiki-organisation for you. I'll be glad to help w any questions you have, and would love to have you if my organisation is right for you. Cheers,

Sam Spade 10:59, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know of any other clubs and voluntary associations on wikipedia? I would like to help contribute in any way. However, I'm basically a newbie, having only registered for a few months, if even that long. I think I'm going to drop out of the Harmonious Editing Club, though. It seems like a wonderful idea, but I have not heard of any impact it has made. Not to mention I haven't seen any messages from this year, so I fear it it may not be active. I have seen potential disputes brewing on the Creation-evolution controversy article and its talk page (it has been archived or deleted at least three times since I checked it in the last two or so weeks). Mred64 22:13, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There are a number, but most see little use. Some are based on ideology, like M:inclusionism and M:deletionism, and there are service organisations such as Wikipedia:RC patrol and Welcoming Commitee. I'll list more as I think of them. Cheers,

Sam Spade 22:56, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Aha, see:

Wikipedia:Wikipedians#Wikipedian_associations. Cheers,

Sam Spade 23:00, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] FYI

Blocked Blasphemous is now Please Don't Block, was Noah Peters then 5440orFight and vandal who impersonated Apollomelos2 and Apollomelos3 - has other names and IPs. MPLX/MH 19:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, ok, I was sure he had to be some blocked user or another ;) Sam Spade 20:22, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

thank you for the welcome :-) UDoN't!wAn* 23:19, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Gladly, thats what I do :) Sam Spade 23:22, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Hey, This is Casey Reese. You probably remember me from the Atlas Forum. Sincerely, Casey Reese User:Casey Reese (sig added by Sam Spade 10:42, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Hmm, I think that must have been a different sam spade? What is this atlas forum, I don't recollect such a thing. Do you have a link? Cheers,

Sam Spade 10:42, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is it. That's who I confused you with. Sorry.

Wow, he looks pretty cool, glad to be mistaken for him! The NRA is a bit too laid back for me tho, I tend towards Gunowners of America. They never supported the assault weapons ban :) Sam Spade 13:33, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] please explain how

i am getting very confuse as to how to add ot wikipedia. it seems very arbitrary as to what can be added. i've read the various places regarding adding links, and i thought i was following them. i noticed that my additions have been deleted - is it because it is in the form of a blog? if that is the case, then let me know.

thx so much. User:Nlamore (sig added by Sam Spade 10:42, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Apparently they don't like your blow being linked to, and consider it Wikipedia:Spam. Personally I don't care one way or the other, but its a big deal to come people. Try doing some editing that doesn't involve your blog. Cheers,

Sam Spade 10:57, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the links. Still kind of gettin the hang of this. Never edited anything here before heh. || Subversive 11:06, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

glad to hear it, slow but steady wins the race ;) Cheers,

Sam Spade 11:13, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] thanks for the Welcome

but still confused how to add From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Help system is such out of use :-/ -- AndriuZ 20:26, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

I have no idea what you mean, but try Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia:Village pump. Cheers, Sam Spade 20:14, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, Sam.

Anrwlias 23:00, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ludwig Kaas

If you can find the time could you check out the Ludwig Kaas page . Again I am gonna have to dispute and fight every inch . I put up the page yesterday and already it is a whitewash . Tell me ,Sam, is it the case that some editors were brought in semi-professionally to seed the wikipedia or why is that some people seem to feel they own a page ? I note that Pius XII is not being whitewashed as of now but Kaas is as you can see. I see no alternative to fighting this revisionism otherwise the wiki will destroy history thru the syndication . I posted to technical tother day about partial page protection , and see the outcome failing that as an underground wiki or an alternative wiki or simply pages written under alt-Kaas, alt -pius . These guys are scandalous and I think you or someone should che(u)ck em out . This editor is a cleaning agent . I come to you first and if you can raise this revisionism problem great otherwise I'm gonna have to get even tougher . Whoever he is he's counter-productive to 'them' .ThanksFlamekeeper 06:51, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I intend to spend some hours going over those articles and merging the content from both versions. Thats the NPOV thing to do IMO. Sam Spade 20:14, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] searches seem odddddd

Back again but this is even ,more serious. I noticed that the Centre Party Germany Wikipedia didn't Google search some time ago . Now I have checked the Adam von Trott zu Solz page and find that it doesnt Google AT ALL. At least the en.wikipedia to him doesnt within the first 57 pages before repeating within search results . If you put his name followed by wikipedia he doesnt link in the first 17 pages which is when it starts repeating within search. Sam , can you explain this ? Trott was not a problem to find before. Is it some Google co-incidence/factor or is this sinister ?ThanksFlamekeeper 08:11, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea, try Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia:Village pump. Cheers, Sam Spade 20:14, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] If only more people read NPOV

"Stupid list, highly encyclopedic. Were here to document verifiable POV's, not express absolute truth. If only more people read NPOV... Sam Spade"

Well said! What is your opinion on List of incidents famously considered great blunders (Currently up for Vfd.) It's a wonderfully useful article and the subject of a number of books and documentaries. It's been viciously attacked by deletionists, most of whom seem to have never read the NPOV policy.

Do you happen to know anyone else that understands NPOV? - Pioneer-12 11:38, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. An unexpected but not unpleasant suggestion. (For some reason I seem to be using the phrase "not unpleasant" today.) I agree that name would be more amusing. Too bad more people on Wikipedia don't have a sense of humor.

Hey, have you looked at the Batman story on the bottom of the page yet? No one reads the story, yet it is the foundation of the inspiration. - Pioneer-12 19:38, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nope, I'll look into it, cheers, Sam Spade 20:14, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] watchlist question

Is there a way for me to share access to my watchlist with another user? Memenen 14:29, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea, try Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia:Village pump. Cheers, Sam Spade 20:14, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] welcome message

Why, thanks for your welcome message addressed to me, Sam Spade. But what makes you think I'm new? I registered in october 2004! Not quite recently, if you ask me.... Lexw 20:00, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Just the red link talk page. Glad to have you, Sam Spade 20:12, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AMA Meeting Proposal

Hi! I put together a proposal for another AMA meeting that I'm hopeful you can chime in on. --Wgfinley 20:08, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] updating/editing

By the grace of G-d Shalom Sam! You sugest I should be bold in updating/editing pages I presume you have seen my previous updates of Chabad and Lubavitcher Rebbe pages.Sugest how can one be bold and avoid people reverting your pages to previous version like Eliezer have been doing to me? See the editing history of Chabad and Lubavitcher Rebbe pages User:Ariel Sokolovsky (sig added by Sam Spade 14:45, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Sure, will do. Sam Spade 14:45, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for the information...

You created my first message, and within was some good stuff. I had done a little editing already, but I guess I should go through all the 'instructions' properly. Thanks for the info. :) Narxysus 15:50, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You don't have to read everything, but I'm very glad you have interest! Cheers,

Sam Spade 17:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] PV

• /PV chat

[edit] Raj2004

Thanks for the warm welcome, Sam I was an one month vacation to India (visited southern India, visited Tirupati and moved. There is a definite presence of God in Tirupati. I can feel it.

Raj2004

I can think of no better compliment for the place! I'll have to look into it :) Glad to see you back,

Sam Spade 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you.

Thank you for the welcome message. I'll be sure to check out those links. I'm not completely new to wikipedia, I've been lurking about for a long while and often used wikipedia, but just recently gathered the courage to "be bold".

Cheers -Paladin

Excellent, and watch out for exploding toads! Sam Spade 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

I've been reading Wikipedia for a few years now and I finally decided it was time to help out where I could. If you have any additional suggestions, let me know. Rkevins82 20:49, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And if you have any questions, let me know! :) Sam Spade 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the welcome!

Hey thanks for the tips. I'll be sure to read over what I havn't already. Thanks again! Tom 21:34, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Great, glad to have you!

Sam Spade 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Appeasement

Hi and thanks. Lets see how it goes-it seems a constant battle and having a neutral in the middle just clouds the issues. I am placing this in appropriate places -hoping to get a reply and hoping that such clarity of law will be applied to vatican action as to our sexual lives

The Breaking of the Law

Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (18)—in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general. (18) see Rom 3,8 This is the legal principle cited as the basis for the enciclical Humanae Vitae and is the basis for the entire teaching concerning human fertility .

I enquire of the Holy Father how soon will he choose institute a public enquiry of tribunal into the breaking of this law in direct intent by Pope Pius XI, Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli the future Pope Pius XII and Monsignor Ludwig Kaas Leader of the Catholic Centre Party in Germany, against the moral order of the Church and of all societies in general

Flamekeeper 06:20, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It strikes me that the wikipedia is the wrong place to enquire of the Holy Father... Maybe a letter or trip to the vatican would do better? Sam Spade 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mitigation of POV

Sam- I'm all out of persuasion power and I conclude that the insidious nature of witting or un-witting white-washing covers all pages of the wikipedia to do with appeasement and the people involved . I have tried to help but I now see that it is pointless say, to redo Ludwig Kaas'page . You have tried the Centre Party and that is noble of you .I fear that I will simply have to keep it narrowed down to the breaking of the law by these three individuals and the resultant double-standards of the Church . The wikipedia has not safeguarded the truth and an adherence to encyclopedic principles of acceptable generalisation serve cutting edge history ill. I relentlessly wrote with citations but no , there is always the nature of the wikipedia to fall back on as a tool of censorship . I no longer feel that the agreed manners of the wikipedia are justifiable and I will as I say simply concentrate on re-seeding the central accusation of Romans 3,8. until such time as this is tried by law . Discussion with anybody but between lawyers is fruitless - Romans is the beginning and the end . I will only communicate with you from here , I may send you notice of pages needing attention or add 'disputed by Flamekeeper' in discussions . You may have to in fact banish me entirely , but it will be only for the one single Breaking of the Law entry which I must re-insert at need . I shall put the Flamekeeper discourse together under that page and avoid discord . Pro Bono Flamekeeper 10:42, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) To answer , no , a letter is not -this is a public demand . The Vatican have access to avail of the power of the wiki and the wikipedia , and I do not obtain the means to counter obfuscation . The wikipedia is in the cross fire deservedly as it is now a player in the appeasement . This could be a central test for the wikipedia as it is for the catholic church. I think Romans 3,8 in fact will form the basis of unified human law and that the case that must be brought will lay the foundations for the future . You may be wise to distance yourself from me and confine yourself to purely procedural wikipedia concern. My enquiry is so shattering of the status quo , is so simply the question that should have been asked at the time in 1933, that should have been asked since, that I attempted to lead others to understand and equally ask it . I feel that this is no longer possible and that I am forced to avail of debateable strategy and risk whatever attendant downside there is to myself or the wikipedia .

[edit] Prussian Holocaust

Why did you rv my carefully justified edit on that page without explaining yourself on Talk:Prussian Holocaust. If you followed the VfD, you would be aware that most editors agree that a redirect is inappropriate. --- Charles Stewart 10:43, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I find you comments here and elsewhere extremely offensive and indicative that you intend to use the wikipedia as a forum for pressing your POV and attacking and maligning editors based on it. Please read NPOV and reconsider if this is a place you should be. Sam Spade 11:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I apologise if you regard being called a useful idiot of neo-nazis offensive, but the only alternatives I have been able to conceive of would be inconsistent with Wikipedia:Assume good faith, a policy candidate that in any case which I think is misconceived. I try to avoid personal attacks, but it is difficult to avoid offence whilst accurately characterising the issues under discussion; this policy finds itself in tension with Be bold; if you have problems you cannot resolve by yourself with the tone of my remarks, RfC is an option. The editor I had in mind with my remark about propaganda was User:Schlesier and another German neo-nazi POV pusher who has not edited about Prussian Holocaust. I believe my editing is consistent with NPOV, a policy I take extremely seriously, and I would welcome hearing good arguments to the contrary. --- Charles Stewart 12:07, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for the welcome message

Appreciated.

User:Sports Internet Destination (sig added by Sam Spade 14:43, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Great, glad to have you. Sam Spade 14:43, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Many Thanks

Thanks plenty =) will try to catch up on the tutorials.. Sir Luis 13:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Excellent, let me know if theres anything you need. Sam Spade 14:43, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Dear Sam, is welcoming people the only thing you do? Anyway, you should have checked my history before you sent me a welcome. I do not want one nor do I need one. You may want to contact Ahoerstemeier for more information on the matter. Whodidthat 14:58, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Related users

• User:Mel Etitis
• User:Viriditas
• User:BaronLarf
• User:Smoddy
• User:Matthew Platts
• User:Pavel Vozenilek

[edit] Hello

Dear Sam, is welcoming people the only thing you do? Anyway, you should have checked my history before you sent me a welcome. I do not want one nor do I need one. You may want to contact Ahoerstemeier for more information on the matter. Whodidthat 14:59, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Related users

• User:Mel Etitis
• User:Viriditas
• User:BaronLarf
• User:Smoddy
• User:Matthew Platts
• User:Pavel Vozenilek

[edit] Hello again

You should really respect other peoples' rights, y'know, Sam? Don't send me a welcome or else... Whowilldothat 15:19, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the welcome

Although I'm not exactly a newbie, I think it's a nice show of hospitality (unlike Whowilldothat... some people just need to chill!) - Haunti 15:34, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hehe, we can't all be as nice as you, Haunti! Glad to have ya, cheers,

Sam Spade 15:36, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Preussen Gloria

I sent Ezion Geber an email and this was the response: "The scholarly credentials of the author of 'A Terrible Revenge' have never been challenged to my knowledge. By all means add material from my site. It just happens to be a politically incorrect subject. Solzhenitsyn was a good witness." Just thought you might be interested as you have obviously been to the site.--Chammy Koala 15:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Certainly! So Ezion Geber is willing to donate material from his site? Are you sure he is aware of the GFDL nature of the wikipedia and so forth? Glad to hear from you,

Sam Spade 15:57, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, I know Ezion looked at the article before responding to my email, (I sent him the link) and in my email I requested the use of information, which has been granted. I can't say for sure if he is aware of our GFDL nature. He responds quite quickly to emails though, so I'm sure if you wanted to clarify he'd be happy to help. --Chammy Koala 16:30, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Whats his email? If you think it shouldn't be publically broadcasted, you can email it to me, of course :) Sam Spade 18:55, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Thanks!

Thanks a bunch for the welcome! :) - I hope to stick around long enough to not be new ;-) Kimmetje 16:50, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I seem to have messed up.

You offered me help a number of months back, and I now ask for your help. Or perhaps you can direct me elsewhere?

While looking at the article on William Shawn, the former editor of The New Yorker, I saw a mention of Lillian Ross, a long-time staff writer at the magazine. But this link went to an article on Lillian Ross, a Canadian politician. I decided to write an article on the magazine writer, and have done some research on this. While doing the research I found two other persons of the same name, one a film actress, the other a film director and writer (I am almost positive that these are separate people).

I noted that the William Shawn page was the only page that linked to Lillian Ross.

I made a sandbox in my own user space and composed a disambiguation page, making one of the internal links to Lillian Ross (Canadian Politician). Then, anticipating that I would be moving the disambiguation page to Lillian Ross, I tried to move the original Lillian Ross page to Lillian Ross (Canadian Politician). I found out almost immediately that several other links to Lillian Ross had appeared, and I was tired and hungry and a little hypoglycemic (I am diabetic), so I decided to try again later, and immediately moved it back. Now, besides the original page, there is a redirect page from Lillian Ross (Canadian Politician) to Lillian Ross. I decided to leave it alone and ask for help.

Is there any way of freezing a page, or pages, while attempting something like this? Or must I ask for the help of an administrator? TIA for any help you can give.

Too Old 04:41, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)

PS Lillian Ross (journalist) is only one of a set of articles I anticipate about the newspaper PM, which was published in New York from June 18, 1940 to June 22, 1948, and some of the people associated with it. Some of these people have articles at Wikipedia, others I will write.

I'm glad to help (or try, it sounds complicated!), it sounds like your doing some very good work, I'll look into it, and request assistance if need be, cheers,

Sam Spade 11:39, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think everythings alright now, have a look @

• Lillian Ross - [1]

and

• Lillian Ross (Canadian Politician) - [2]

Sam Spade 12:11, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chavs and nerds

hey sam good deffinision but read chav , nerd My definision (anon)

Well, their certainly not the same animal, whats the context? Sam Spade 11:39, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Many thanks

That seems to have fixed the problem. I assume that you have access to facilities that are unavailable to me, but I would prefer to have the ability to do, myself, some of the things you must have done, so as not to have to trouble you or others. For example, how did you rename the original Lillian Ross article to Lillian Ross (Canadian Politician), since there was already a redirection page of that name? Were you able to delete the Lillian Ross (Canadian Politician) first? I didn't know how to do that.

Thank you very, very much for your help.. I will get on with the rest of my little project.

Too Old 15:21, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)

No, I have no special abilities, I'm not even an admin. I simply used the move button at the top on the page, between history and unwatch. I could show you what I did more easilly if you were here, but since your not, maybe you should try Wikipedia:Move. Please keep up the good work, Sam Spade 16:22, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)