Talk:Sailing ship

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Any takers for a History entry here? Was doing some research for the technology page and no joy . . . When did we learn to sail?

Rossfi 00:24, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bad pictures

It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

In the current article, the first picture shows a sailing boat, the second shows a ship, but it's under auxillary power (not anchored, check the bow wake). Both of these should be replaced with ships under sail.--J Clear 17:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Oy. Both photos are not ships. They are yachts. The bottom one is a ketch. We need a picture of an actual ship, as in a ship as opposed to a yacht, a ship as opposed to a sloop of war, a ship as opposed to a schooner, a ship of the line. There are various definitions of "ship." I think we should get an unambiguous ship picture. I have a photo I took of the Lady Washington drifting in a calm, but it is a pretty minimal "ship" and it would be nice to get a ship actually sailing. Something like that painting of the Cutty Sark with all its stunsails out. I'm worried about the tackling drawing. I saw it a few weeks ago in a book, and I can't swear it was out of copyright. I also found this here picture, but the sails are droopy. Mrees1997 19:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I cut the two yachts out and put in this picture: . Mrees1997 19:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge tag

I have added a mergeto tag to Sailboat pointing to here. Actually I'm not terribly bothered which way it moves, just my POV that it should go this direction. At least this article is part of a template. The two articles are quite different but I don't think we need both. Its very similar territory and there is no great differentiation between the 2 concepts. Opinions and suggestions please ? Frelke 07:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

No merge. In my opinion, the distinction between the two is useful and should be preserved. I tend to regard articles from the perspective of being a link target; if I want to link to sailing ship from, let's say, a "history of trading in the Carribean", I'm not terribly interested in the sporting dinghys on sailboat. And the other way around when I'm doing an article on Olympic sail winners. --Alvestrand 10:48, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you explain what you see as the intended difference between the 2 articles? Are you suggesting that sailboat should only cover sail-powered leisure craft of a certain size? And that sailing ship covers something else? Frelke 13:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I think. Sailing ships can be used for something useful; sailboats are for fun. --Alvestrand 21:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge and provide the following distinction: The term "boat" generally refers to smaller craft (sloops) and submarines, while "ship" refers to larger craft, such as a clipper. Change the title to "Sailing vessels." The term "sailing ship" is almost never used, while "sailing vessels" is the industry-standard term. - Mugs 15:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Google "sailing ship": 972.000. Google "sailing vessel": 584.000. Guess the world hasn't caught up with industry. --Alvestrand 21:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

No merge I also don't think this article should be merged with sailboat. The Sailing Ship article referrs mostly to historical marine vessels used for war and commerce. Sailboats are primarily contempary (within the past 100 years) marine vessels used for recreation and sport. The uses are different, the time frame is different, the construction methods are different, materials are (typically) different, the owners are different. I would say that the only similarity between the two is their method of propulsion and they are both used on water. Finally, one is not a logical subset of the other. A sailboat is not a type of sailing ship, and a sailing ship is certainly not a type of sailboat. If they were to be merged, both articles should be removed and an umbrella article with at title of something like "Wind Powered Vessels" (or, in fact, "sailing vessel") should be created. I don't see that this is necessary, however, and it might make searches for either sailboat or sailing ship more problematic for a user. I would agree that there should remain links between the two articles. Zander42 16:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

No Merge Fully agree with Zander42 above Boatman 17:33, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge Fully agree with Mugs. The difference between a boat and a ship is for a great deal defined by whether you own it or not ;) Note the three-mast schooner in the sailboat-article. And what to do with historical fishing vessels, like the botter, cutter or logger? Are they too small for a ship, or does the commercial use qualify it as a ship? I don't expect regular users to understand the fine details of the difference between boats and ships. (they don't come over here because they know it all). It's definitely confusing to have two articles. Waltertje 17:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

No Merge, mostly agree with Zander42. However if someone felt there was enough overlap, then perhaps each needs more focus on those topic (i.e. some ... trimming). The common bits might belong more in Sailing or refer there. --J Clear 02:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sailing re-organization effort

Take a minute to read the comments at Talk:Sailing#Re-write effort -- non how-to et seq. Some of us are working on re-organizing the sailing-related articles. See if you agree with our approach and give us some help. Mrees1997 20:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)