Talk:Sahaj Marg Philosophy

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----- KEEPING TO ARTICLE DISCUSSION -----

Please let us keep the discussion to the Article and what should be in it. For those who want to promote Sahaj Marg, proposals can be made to the Shri Ram Chandra Mission at their site or in writing. For more in depth debate on the values of Sahaj Marg (spiritually and socially), please visit the many blogs on the WEB.

These are some:

Let's keep this discussion on the "encyclopedic" value of the information presented. Sahaj Marg and its proponents make certain claims and there are others who make different claims. We can accomodate all or most if we try.

[edit] CREATORS OF SAHAJ MARG - BABUJI IN HONOUR OF LALAJI

Hi Matheo...

Congratulation on your article....

I notice that in your first sentence, that you only mention Chari as the teachers or Master of Sahaj Marg. This take-over, is what the "controversy" is all about. Babuji, having met Lalaji a few times before his death, claims that he got the succession from Lalaji in a dream. This of course, even thought the Yogabhyas group of Dr Chatterbuy claim the Lalaji succession. This is the Sufi lineage that you talk about.

The Hinduism part is Chari who studied "Vaishnava traditional instruction in the Hindu religion". And that is what Sahaj Marg is moving to or morphing into, with Chari, not to Sufism and to the Sahaj Marg of Babuji.

So your first sentence, to not be "POV", should include the contributions of Babuji, the creator of Sahaj Marg who is still claimed to be sending messages from "beyond the grave" via a French Medium, a lady apparently, not apparently directly to Chari. Is someone else more "sensitive" to the previous Master than the Master? That is their controversial "fund raiser" book called the "Whispers from the Brighter World" and is sold at $250.00 US. The "spiritualism" of the "brighter world" and "chanelling" of Chari, seems to have replace the "spirituality" of the "16 rings" of Babuji". So the connection of the Sahaj Marg of Babuji is not as strong with Chari as it is in France with this "medium" lady. Babuji invented Sahaj Marg with the support of Dr Varadachari who was to be the next Master of Sahaj Marg before Chari came and "took over".

Thanks for your attempts to put out the information you think is "accurate" and complete and not "propaganda".

Don


[edit] Brahmaloka

I would check out the state or the place called Bramaloka and see if it is possible for the Masters of Sahaj Marg to inhabit it with the “modified Raja Yoga”, without the tapas (austerities) that allows Chari to claim that Babuji was “not a generous man” and when one sees the marble and the “lions” at the ashrams, that virtue is not visibly practiced by the current “Master”. The Brighter World of Chari and Sahaj Marg is not Bramaloka as I see it. It would have to have virtues and not “court cases” and “inner battles for control” etc… That depicts an attraction to “the material” and not the “spirit”. Christ is not of the “material heavens” according to the “christians” so Christ is not in the Brahmaloka, and that becomes a POV….and should be stated so. Brighter World : maybe! Brahmaloka, NO!

The Brahmaloka sounds like “hindu fundamentalism” and not ‘spirituality” as we have come to define it in the “western world” ie remaining in the “spiritual” world and not the “material” world of the heavens of “hinduism” and “Christianity” and many other religions. Not Buddhism! At least I don’t think so. I will read some more on the Buddhist aspect of Brahmaloka in light of Buddhism but for the Sahaj Marg view of it, I don’t see Chari claiming Brahmaloka. The Brighter World, yes, as he defines it. Where is Dr. Varadachari when you need him eh? Or any philosopher or student of “Hinduism”. I wonder if Narayana is “versed” in Hinduism? I would just not put in that word until I check it with someone with more “authority” than me. Am I wrong?

From one site:

The highest of the celestial worlds, the abode of the Brahmas. It consists of twenty heavens:

   * the nine ordinary Brahma-worlds,
   * the five Suddhāvāsā,
   * the four Arūpa worlds (see loka),
   * the Asaññasatta and
   * the Vehapphala (e.g., VibhA.521).

All except the four Arūpa worlds are classed among the Rūpa worlds (the inhabitants of which are corporeal). The inhabitants of the Brahma worlds are free from sensual desires (but see the Mātanga Jātaka, (J.497), where Ditthamangalikā is spoken of as Mahābrahmabhariyā, showing that some, at least, considered that Mahābrahmas had wives).

The Brahma world is the only world devoid of women (DhA.i.270);

http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/b/brahmaloka.htm

The highest material plane, the residence of Lord Brahma and his associates. Also known as Satyaloka.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Brahmaloka/id/176148

Don says:

Can one reside in the Brahmaloka without “compassion, charity and love for the neighbour (the starving, the ill, the disenfranchised ) when one owns multiple dwellings and is a “millionaire”? Does the elimination of the “austerities” from the Raja Yoga of Sahaj Marg not indicate that the Masters of Sahaj Marg are not in the “Bramaloka” as this involves “virtuousness” if not “virtuosity”.

This is from another site: http://www.borobudur.tv/jataka_029.htm

Since the tenets of unbelief are blamable, those who are possessed by the vice of clinging to a
false belief are especially worthy of the commiseration of the virtuous. This will be taught as
follows.

One time the Bodhisattva, having gathered by dint of his constant practice of meditation (dhyana) obtained a store of good karma, and in consequence of the ripening of that merit obtained thereby a birth as a Deva-Rishi in the Heaven of Brahma (Brahmaloka). Nevertheless, that high happiness of the Brahmaloka that he had attained as the effect of the excellence of his meditation, did not destroy his longing for the task of benefiting others, owing to his having always been conversant with commiseration in his former existences. Worldly people become utterly careless because of their indulgence in sensual pleasures; however, the frequent absorption in the delight of meditation, however ideal, does not obscure the pious mind's desire for benefiting others.

While residing in the Brahma-heaven, where Compassion finds its proper sphere of action, the High-minded One cast his gaze down upon the Region of Sensuality below, which is visited by hundreds of different forms of sufferings and calamities, and contains the elements of moral illnesses, disasters, injuries against living beings, and sensual pleasures.

While observing the Region of Sensuality, the High-minded One perceived the King of Videha, who was erring in the wilderness of a wrong belief. King Angadinna's wrongful views were partially due to the fault of his intercourse with bad friends, as well as in consequence of his own ardent attachment to false thoughts.

"There is no other world after this," thought that king. "Therefore, how could anything like result ever ripen out of one's good or evil actions?"

In conformity with this belief, the king's longing for religious practices had been extinguished. Having become averse to performing the pious works of charity, good conduct (sila), and the rest, that king harbored a deep-rooted contempt for the religious life. Moreover, owing to his want of faith he bore ill-will with regard to religious law-books. He laughed at tales concerning the other world and showed but little respect and honor when he encountered the holy Sramanas and Brahmans, whom he held in little esteem for he had exclusively given himself up to sensual pleasures.

http://www.borobudur.tv/jataka_029.htm

Don --don 00:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] '"Letter from grandson of Babuji, son of Umsesh Jan 07"'

Is this the "philosophie" of this groupe?

This letter is by the son of Umesh Saxena, grandson of Babuji...

I added some of the comments to his letter also...

This site has it:

http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html

For accusing documents see this site:

http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/successor.html

Navneet said...

We are running a spiritual society, Shri Ram Chandra Mission. It was started by my Grandfather, Shri Ram Chandra ji maharaj of Shahjahanpur. He left his physical body in 1983.

After leaving his physical body One of his disciples came up with a forged nomination which evident from the document itself to a layman with typewriting used twice and even the printed name of socity of emblem are not in aligned to each other as is in case of Printed letter heads. Moreso no where in text has he been nominated as the President of the society Shri Ram Chandra Mission. These are onle some of the startling facts of the document.

There was however a nomination given by the founder in name of my father Sh. Umesh Chandra which was in line with constitution & byelaws of the society then registered way back in 1945. He was accepted as president in 1984 by the Managing Committee of the society.

Law of UP Society Act changed in 1984 to election since then we are following the law and after Sh. Umesh Chadra ji's unnatural death in 2003 his son Navneet Kumar have been elected as the President by the Elected body.

Atrocities of the disciple claiming President ship in 1984 increased ever since I have taken over. he started a parallel society in the same name with its Head Quarters at Chennai.

We are seeking justice ever since 1984. but are not getting the same from all the courts because of reasons below:

He has appointed sitting and ex judges of Allahabad High court in his legal committee, Sitting & Ex IAS officers, Businessman, Foreign Nationals, and Retd. IPS Officers who seemingly are not only influencing the judicial but also Administrative Authorities, who on our face agree that we are talking legal but who either dismiss out petitions or give judgements/orders against us. Many a times if u notice the findings they are in our favour but judgement is not. Moreover he has aides of fund and money from India and abroad too.

He claims himself as Guru but as per the literature of my grandfather there shall be no more Guru other than him. Others shall be his successors and he shall act through the spiritual representative. Moreover even his literature and his last letter clearly states that he has not appointed the Alleged disciple as his successor and that he has nominated his spritual representative in Direct ine of succession which was as per the constitution & Bye law of the society and the act at the time of his physical demise.

Moreso the alleged disciple has also changed the constitution to suit him, but the change fortunately has not been accepted by the Registrar of Societies.

Aides of the said alleged claimant have not only harassed us mentally but also attempted on our lives several times as the alleged disciple had done with his Guru. Which is clearly evident from the notorised last letter of the founder president Shri Ram Chandra ji Maharaj of Shahjahanpur.

He has been misguiding the public at large since over Two decades now. This is being continued due to delayed justice.

Recently last year his aides Ex IPS Officer, Ex IAS Officer and Ex Judicial Officers came in into our Ashram with 150 people and attacked wife of Sh. Umesh Chandra, who is above 60 years of age and Sh. Amresh Kumar the Ashram Incharege who is about 65 years of age in presence of Police security which was provided by then DM & SP of Shahjahanpur. On the plea of the victims being beaten by the crowd also the police did not move a wee bit and people who opposed were beaten and pushed out of Ashram by Police officials. The police and Administration of Shahjahanpur, UP supported them there was a call from Mrs. Umesh Chandra's son to the SP too when the incident was taking place as someone informed her son about the incident on his mobile, who was at Mumbai at that point of time. SP refused to offer help and stated I cannot do anything sorry. and he later stopped picking up his phone.

Both sufferred injuries and they were taken by our advocate who arrived at the incident spot a while later were taken toand went to the Civil Hospital where the Medical report clearly states that they were beaten had bruises and with possibility of internal injury. The victims went to the police station to file FIR they refused to register saying No One in Shahjahanpur will file your FIR. They faxed the FIR to the DM copy to the Chief Secretary of UP and later even to the court. But the FIR is not filed as yet. The case is pending at this point of time too.

There have been incidents of even placing High Court of Allahabad orders in district court even before the hearing of case at the High court took place and the order was released. This was reported with proof to the CJI. CJI has ordered enquiry which also we know would die its unnatural death as other enquiries of the President of India, Vice President of India, The Prime Minister of India has died its unnatural injustice death.

If such a a person claims to be spiritual GURU like personality how humanely is he acting can be visible but no action whatsoever by the Authorities, People at large or even Media is taking place.

We have a feeling that since Media is not getting active even after our regular followups and requests to enter into the issue as a common man cannot even live peacefully in this country with citizens who are responsible for degrading the system of the society and the country.

So where is the justice without media intervention as the justice is in hands of the higher ups and people having contacts in this country.

We have left things to Supreme court today hoping that justice may be given at this Apex court atleast.


Navneet January 18, 2007 12:17 PM

Anonymous said...

What can you give to people as a representative of Shri Ram Chandraji (your grandfather). February 10, 2007 12:37 PM

Anonymous said...

Please can you tell me if it is possible to visit Shri Ram Chandra Ashram in Shahjahanpur these days? Who is looking after it?

I have stayed both there & at Babuji's family house in the past.

Best wishes. February 11, 2007 10:04 AM Anonymous said...

P.S. Are any of Babuji's original publications of his books still available from the Publications Dept. at Shahjahanpur?

If so, how may they be obtained, please?

What has happened to Babuji's family house at Shahjahanpur, please?

Sincerely. February 11, 2007 10:09 AM

Alexis said...

Hi Navneet,

I'm Alexis mielkarski and I try to understand the REAL HISTORY of Sahaj Marg and SRCM with some other friends like me.

Our blogs are,

- in english : http://4d-don.blogspot.com or http://innercircleofsrcm.blogspot.com

- in french : http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com or http://shriramchandramission.blogspot.com

I think you have some very important informations to speak for all the abhyasis. Could you come on our blogs and speak with us ?

We have a lot of questions...

Regards Alexis

February 13, 2007 3:20 PM

Charles Le Magne, --Roicharlemagne 18:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

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