Talk:Rwanda

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I have moved all the links to Rwandan Genocide-related topics to Bibliography of the Rwandan Genocide. (That's ALL the external links, and some of the "See Also"s.) Rwanda is a country, not a genocide, as Vietnam is a country and not a war. The Genocide is well linked from this page, and splitting the links on one topic between two pages is always a bad idea.- BanyanTree 00:44, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Under "Economy," the article says, "It is the most densely populated country in Africa..." Immediately afterwards, under "Demographics," it says, "Rwanda's population density, even after the 1994 genocide, is among the highest in Sub-Saharan Africa." Inconsistent and repetitive.

Contents 1 New stub templates 2 no Rwandan ethnicities? 3 Propaganda 4 survivors. 5 Rwanda "R" flag 6 English in Rwanda 7 Belgium and France 8 Dictatorship? 9 Distances from other countries 9.1 Discussion 9.2 How the section looked 10 Proposed WikiProject 11 interahamwe translation 12 Jesters? 13 Proposed Link 14 Mixed Up History

[edit] New stub templates

I've created two new stubs for Rwanda:

• Rwanda stubs ({{Rwanda-stub}})
• Rwanda geography stubs ({{Rwanda-geo-stub}})

Use them wisely! :-) TreveX^talk 15:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] no Rwandan ethnicities?

I have removed the following contribution to the Demographics section:

However, recent authors on Rwandan History, have discovered that Rwandans don't regard themselves as ethnic groups. The three groups have always existed as occupational types: the Tutsi were pastoralists, owning lots of cows, and uninvolved in agricultural production. The Hutus were agriculturalists and worked the land, producing food.The Twa produced pottery which was used in exchange for agricultaral and dairy products. The three groups were inter-dependent, shared the common culture, and regarded themselves as Banyarwanda. Their differences in appearance and height were only emphasised during the colonial period, which demanded that everyone was categorised, hence the introduction of ethinicity. Even today, Rwandans don't regard themselves tribes or ethnic groups, despite what foreign media has led people to believe.

I might have let the middle sentences slide as the article could use a start of a discussion of the formulation, especially since the beginning of colonialism, of what are now hard definitions of ethnicity, as well as the pull between national and ethnic identities, but I know that the "Rwandans don't regard themselves as ethnic groups" bit is false from both my "book learning" and personal experience. There's something about a whole lot of people killing each other over designations for 50 years that makes people choose a side. I would love to see the study that is mentioned. - BanyanTree 02:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Whilst this is a highly contentious issue, I think that some mention of the debate within social science on this issue is necessary. This is perhaps summed up best by Peter Uvin in his article 'Prejudice, Crisis, and Genocide in Rwanda' (African Studies Review 40 (1997), 91-115):

Disagreement exists on the distinction between Hutu, Tutsi and Twa. Are they distinct ethnic groups? Or are they socio-economic divisions within the society of Banyarwanda, akin to castes perhaps, or even social classes? Some authors suggest that by the 19th century hundreds of years of cohabitation and intermarriage had produced an 'integrated' social system wherin the categories of Hutu and Tutsi were largely occupationally defined: whoever acquired a sizeable herd of cattle was called Tutsi and was highly considered. In the same vein Rwandan emigrees in neighbouring Zaire were until recently known as belonging to the ethnic group of Banyarwanda - the local term for 'Rwandans;' many of them grew up knowing themselves solely as such.

– Uvin, 'Prejudice..., pp.92

You can find the whole article at JSTOR, but it's subscriber only. I guess they'd have a copy of the journal in most big libraries. My personal knowledge on the topic isn't sufficient for me to suggest precise wording at this stage, but I think it would be useful to point out that the debate does "exist", even if there's no academic (or popular) consensus.--Benwilson528 23:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda

This reads - in parts - like Tutsi propaganda. "In reality, it was Hutus who bombed..." etc. etc. - any references at all for these assertions? Or would it be ok to add "In reality, it was Jews who burned the Reichstag..." to the WW2 entry? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.144.87.199 (talk • contribs).

Go ahead and put {{fact}} after assertions that you feel are questionable. If you know for a fact that the article is wrong, simply correct it. Citations to credible sources would be appreciated if you did substantially change something, otherwise it's just a "You're wrong! - No, I'm not." argument. Thanks, BanyanTree 18:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] survivors.

Go see "Hotel Rwanda". A magnificent movie. Its about the masacre that occured On April 6, 1994, the airplane carrying President Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira, the President of Burundi, was shot down as it prepared to land at Kigali. Both presidents were killed when the plane crashed. As though the shooting down was a , military and militia groups began rounding up and killing all Tutsis they could capture as well as political moderates irrespective of their ethnic backgrounds. Large numbers of opposition politicians were also murdered. Many nations evacuated all their nationals from Kigali and closed their embassies as violence escalated. The prime minister and her ten Belgian bodyguards were among the first victims. The killing swiftly spread from Kigali to all corners of the country; between April 6 and the beginning of July, a genocide of unprecedented swiftness officially left 937,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus dead at the hands of organized bands of militia: Interahamwe. Even ordinary citizens were called on by local officials to kill their neighbors. The president's MRND Party was implicated in organizing many aspects of the genocide.- user: DylonPipe 22:15, 14 August 2006.

[edit] Rwanda "R" flag

I fixed the flag, due to me converting the letter into a path. I do apologize for not doing this sonner. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 00:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English in Rwanda

Why is English an official language of Rwanda? Aaker 21:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

English became an official language after 1990. Most members of the RPF had been in exile in Uganda and been educated there -- most therefore spoke English but not French. In addition, Rwanda's trade links with (English-speaking) East Africa have strengthened in recent years. Kahuzi 08:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The official web site of the Government of Rwanda has a fact sheet which lists the languages of Rwanda as English, Kinyarwanda, French and Swahili (in that order!). Kahuzi 16:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belgium and France

Belgium and France are the primary resposibles of the genocide by fostering hatred and discrimination. And why?? Why is that I cannot understand Europeans!(80.154.37.132 12:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC))

Is this simply your point of view or something you back with facts?

[edit] Dictatorship?

Why is Rwanda's government listed as a dictatorship and not a republic - to my knowledge it is now, although not completely democratic, but none the less a republic?

UKWiki 12:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Distances from other countries

I've removed this section, which was added by User:Akanemoto today as I don't feel it's sufficiently interesting or notable to occupy the large space needed for that table. Also no other country, except Albania, has such information, and any decision to include it would have to be made in one place for all countries. If people disagree with me then please discuss here. Cheers — SteveRwanda 10:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

[edit] How the section looked

This list showing the distances from G8 and G15 countries to Rwanda. (calculations with http://www.mapcrow.info/)

Countries	Miles	Kilometers	Bearing
G8 countries
Italy	3274.71	5269.98	SE
France	3728.03	5999.53	SE
Germany	3866.79	6222.83	SE
United Kingdom	4328.62	6966.05	SE
Russia	5655.68	9101.69	SW
Japan	7297.10	11743.22	SW
Canada	7519.11	12100.50	SE
United States	8592.10	13827.27	SE
G15 countries
Kenya	589.84	949.24	SW
Zimbabwe	1175.71	1892.08	NE
Nigeria	1724.50	2775.25	SE
Egypt	2002.31	3222.32	SW
Algeria	2738.31	4406.77	SE
Iran	2788.67	4487.80	SW
Senegal	3206.51	5160.24	SE
India	3525.27	5673.21	SW
Sri Lanka	3568.55	5742.86	SW
Malaysia	5703.12	9178.03	SW
Brazil	5850.24	9414.79	NE
Indonesia	6202.04	9980.94	NW
Argentina	6365.54	10244.07	NE
Venezuela	6643.37	10691.17	SE
Chile	6800.50	10944.04	NE
Peru	7276.00	11709.27	NE
Jamaica	7404.25	11915.65	SE
Mexico	8906.22	14332.77	SE

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Eastern Africa at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Eastern Africa whose scope would include Rwanda. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] interahamwe translation

The Kinyarwanda word interahamwe does not mean "those who attack together". It means "those who are united". This poor translation, originally from a western journalist, was unfortunately repeated over and over. The word interahamwe was used in Rwanda before the famous militia was created. Generally, it is said of any group of people who show solidarity that they are interahamwe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.200.117.218 (talk) 23:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Jesters?

"The Twa, the smallest minority group, were court jesters and often exploited."

Can someone please explain what the above meant in practice? It makes no sense at all to a newcomer to the subject.

[edit] Proposed Link

Hi, I'm working with The Pulitzer Center, a non-profit journalism agency geared towards providing audience to underrepresented news stories. I'd like to link this page to a few related articles on the Pulitzer site; "Loss of Trees, Loss of Life," and others concerning deforestation in Rwanda, http://www.pulitzercenter.org/openitem.cfm?id=215 Please let me know if I can post these links. Many thanks in advance. Blendus 03:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mixed Up History

• In World War II, the protectorate was controlled by the Nazi Party. Hitler's rule in the region was far more direct and harsh than the previous German occupation. They divided the native Rwandan people, based on skin color, eye color, nose length, etc., into three groups; the Tutsi, Hutu, and Twa. The Tutsi's, being lighter skinned and more "European looking" were given a higher status than Hutus. From this article,

however... from the Rwandan Genocide Article Following World War I, Rwanda became a protectorate of Belgium, whose colonial policy over the territory followed the German example and is considered especially influential in priming the genocide