Talk:Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church

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==Name for tbfkdjvbz.jxcvbjkdfcsdhe article==russian rites a Russian Orthodox Oldritualist Church - should probably be moved to Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church. --Ghirlandajo 08:49, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

• Seems a right move. Let's give it a day or two to see what others say. Then we'll just move it. Since the other page is empty, it won't require posting at WP:RM for vote and approval. --Irpen 15:34, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

It's two distinct churches ? Why do you want only one article ? 82.126.97.208 09:52, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Why do you think it is two distinct churches? mikka (t) 21:49, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear all, I believe the title Russian Old-Orthodox Church isn't good. Old-rite or Oldritualist are much better. The Old-Orthodox translation sounds heretic. Arseni 15:48, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Wait, gentlemen... Russian Old-Orthodox Church (Russkaya Drevlepravoslavnaya Cerkov) and Russian Old-Rite Orthodox Church (Russkaya Pravoslavnaya Staroobryadcheskaya Cerkov) are two different churches with different "genealogies" for their hierarchies. "Old-Rite" translates "staroobryadcheskaya" and "old-Orthodox" translates "drevlepravoslavnaya" - and it's not heretic to call them so, Arseni, it's just their traditional self-designation. I agree, both terms sound clumsy, but so it often is with translations. With respect to translating "staroobryadcheskaya", I believe, "Old Rite" is best we got. Thanks. Ouital77 19:17, 18 September 2005.

I have removed the "merge" tag from ROROC and ROOC articles. It seems the tag was misplaced to begin with, and the I have said why in my previous comment. Thanks! ouital77 11:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hierarhy

What do you think about moving the leaders of Belokrinitskaya Hierarchy from this article into the corresponding article (Belokrinitskaya Hierarchy)? I think it would be rather useful. Arseni 16:26, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV

What does 'noncanonical' mean? It doesn't seem NPOV to me. Zach (wv) (t) 21:03, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

'noncanonical' is a technical term, meaning 'nonmainstream', irrelevant to pov/npov issue, just as the word schism. mikka (t) 22:31, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

It seems to have more connotations that just 'nonmainstream', like 'having not followed the canons of the [Orthodox] church'. Would they describe themselves as noncanonical, or see that as an insult? Zach (wv) (t) 17:41, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

The "non/un-canonical jurisdiction" in ecclesiastical parlance usually means "not having a valid/canonical origin in the eyes of the mainstream Orthodox churches" such as Patriarchates of Constantinople, Moscow etc. Certainly, Old Believers won't describe themselves as such - for them, it is Moscow Patriarchate who have fallen from truth (and, ergo, the canons too). And Zach's maybe right - it may sound slightly derogatory (the same as calling them "schismatics"). Surely, in my eyes, there're some canonical problems with this church's origins - but would you put that in the encyclopaedia article? I think we should look for a better word, "noncanonical" is too one-sided. I suggest: "ROORC is an Eastern Orthodox Church of Russian Old Believer tradition, born from the schism etc." - or smth. like that. I open it for suggestions. Ouital77 19:34, 18 September 2005

Maybe something along the lines of "considered noncanonical by most Eastern Christians", perhaps adding "including the Patriarchate of Constantinople", etc...? Zach (wv) (t) 22:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)