Talk:Russell Group
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[edit] The emphasis on comparisons with ivy league
Out of the five paragraphs in the introduction, two of them are devoted to detailed comparisons of the group to the ivy league. For an introductory paragraph, these comparisons are probably inappropriate. As there is much to be said on the matter, however, perhaps these points could be placed under a separate heading pertaining to comparisons with US university leagues. It would certainly make the introduction more relavent to British readers (to whom the group is mostly of interest to) by removing references to US universities which the reader cannot be expected to have any knowledge on.
"An example of the mistakes that are made about the constituents of the Russell Group is the study done by the Centre for the Economics of Education that found that graduates from Russell Group universities earn more on average than those from other universities."
- This study lists the constituents of the Russell Group correctly. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Moved POV material
, though some top research universities (notably the University of Durham and the University of York) are not members
....that's like saying MIT is not a member of the Ivy League - so what?
- MIT isn't a member of the Ivy League? I didn't know that. The perception this side of the Atlantic is that "Ivy League" refers to all of the top universities in America, and the Russell Group like to be thought of in the same way. It frequently makes public pronouncements, and lobbies the government, on issues such as top-up fees (variable fee rates for students - a big debate in UK HE at the moment) where it claims to represent the UK's prestigious, research-led universities. Missing out Durham and York, along with St Andrews - Scotland's oldest university and the place Prince William has chosen to study. Additionally, there has often been confusion in the press about whether these universities are in the Russell Group:
"It has long been a dream of the UK's university leaders to form their own version of the Ivy League. Called the Russell Group, after the hotel in Russell Square, London, where the first meeting of leading institutions was held to discuss the plans, it includes Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bristol, Imperial College, London, and Durham." (The Observer, 1st of December, 2002)
"members of the Russell group of elite universities, which includes Oxford,LSE Cambridge, Bristol, Manchester, Durham and Imperial College London, wanted to be allowed to charge at least £4,000 a year." (The Guardian, 20th of March, 2003)
"The Russell Group is made up of the top 20 research universities in the country including universities such as Bristol, Nottingham, York and Durham. The Vice Chancellors of many of these universities are lobbying the government to let them set the fees that they can charge. This would mean that students would pay more to go to a popular university and could end up paying according to their course." (Bristol Students' Union - one of the members of the Aldwych Group of Russell Group Students' Unions)
"The Russell Group, which as well as Oxford and Cambridge includes universities such as Durham, Leeds and Manchester, would almost certainly form the basis of the new group." (Sunday Telegraph, 13th of February, 2000)
I think it is clear that there is a confusion here that needs to be explicitly addressed. This is, to me, sufficient justification for including the statement that certain Universities, which would generally be considered among the Russell Group in terms of prestige, are not actually members.
Robminchin 14:30, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Quality is a factor, in addition to quality:and many of them also have very high government ratings for the calibre of their research.
I've removed the above from the text, as it doesn't make sense, and adds very little anyway. If there is a genuine point that was trying to be made here, it needs rewording. - IMSoP 19:25, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The paragraph detailing the statistics of which universities are where in terms of research funding, etc, is rather verbose at the moment, and reads like part of a discussion, rather than actually expressing the facts. Perhaps someone could refactor it into something more readable. - IMSoP 19:39, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The first paragraph states that neither the Ivy league nor the Russel Group are comprehensive lists of the top universities. It then goes on to say that because of this obvious similarity the statement 'the Russel group is a kind of British Ivy League' is wrong. Surely it is correct as they are both self claimed groups of the best universities, neither of which include all of the best ones in their respecitve countries...
I really don't think Vanderbilt should be on the list of top US Unis not in the Ivy league. It doesn't have a reputation as a top US Uni in or, as far as I'm aware, outside of the USA (except maybe for some in the Southern US). I've taken it out, though really I think including a whole list is silly. The article is "Russell Group," not "Misconceptions About the Ivy League"
Changed "best" US universities to "most well-known US universities" in interests of NPOV. Grover cleveland 04:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
There should be no reference to the US within the article. See Also only. Shall I go and litter Russell Group references all over the Ivy League page?
[edit] New members
Queen's University Belfast has joined as of 6th November 2006, it was announced to our office but I'm not sure when it would be on the website Alastairward 12:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Listing of schools
Listing school groups in the see also section. I added the Rubgy Group and the Woodard Schools group since the Eton group was already there. Considering these groups of schools specifically focus on sending their children to Russell Group Universities and together they form the 'top' schools in the country, they are quite relevant to this article. The see also section might want to be cleaned up into sections of european groups, international groups and school groups that focus on Russell Group acceptance. Spanky Deluxe 13:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see how these pages have information have help readers to understand the Russell Group. For example, many students who attend the Russell Group's members take A Levels, but we don't link to that page. There's no information on those pages that help with this topic. --Duncan 22:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
