Talk:RuneScape gods

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quick guide of Fancruft on RuneScape subpages

Remember: Wikipedia is not a game guide, all content must be of a neutral point of view, all content must be verifiable. In these subpages, we are not writing for RuneScape players; we are writing for everybody in the world. Very few of people need to know things like "abby whips cost 2mil" or "zammy prayerbooks are a reward from horror from the deep quest". This is Fancruft, in that it only appeals or means anything to players and fans of RuneScape, and will "bore, distract or confuse a non-fan, when its exclusion would not significantly harm the factual coverage as a whole". It makes a poor article to be filled with fancruft. Instead, a more basic explanation is more often required, as readers may not know as much as you do!

In short, fancruft includes things like:

  • Pricing information
  • How to complete quests and what the rewards are.
  • Instructions for how to use and perform a skill, for example "to make bronze bars you need 1 tin ore and 1 copper ore"
  • Lengthy, detailed descriptions of items.

Avoiding Fancruft

  • Instead of giving a specific price (which is subject to change anyway), state, for example, "Runite armour often fetches significant sums of money in RuneScape's marketplaces"
  • Do not give game guide type information for quests.
  • Limit mentioning the different types of equipment or raw material used for a skill
  • Never describe an item in intricate detail, for example, the "Abyssal Whip", readers do not need to know that "the abyssal whip comes from abyssal demons which require 85 slayer to kill"

Instead, use inline citations, linking to the relevant RuneScape knowledge base article.

Wikipedia is not the place to guide people through every detail of playing RuneScape, as such a level of detail is inappropriate. It is appropriate at the RuneScape Wiki, a version of Wikipedia intended for players.

Furthermore, read Wikipedia's Manual of Style. Then read it again. You may also wish to read the Wikipedia Introduction in full. Make it easier on your fellow contributors before you click the Save button; click the Preview button, Wikilink to other articles (for example, Wikilink to Sword), make sure your spelling and grammar is absolutely immaculate, don't ask readers to message you ingame, and don't ever use shorthand! Ur nt in rs anymore, you are writing an Encyclopedia!



Articles for deletion
This page was previously nominated for deletion.
Please see prior discussions before considering re-nomination:

Contents

[edit] I backed up RuneScape gods article!

I just wanted to let everyone know I backed up the RuneScape gods article, incase it really is removed. It is one of the most helpful articles I have ever read, and I could not allow it to be completly removed from existance! If anyone else can back up any of the other RuneScape articles marked for deletion, it would be really great! http://karo.cockerel.net/RuneScape_Gods.html Wikitrue 18:23 (PST), 23 July 2006

[edit] Yes it is accurate

Do the quests if your a member, everything here is explained through the members quest. There is a good storyline if you are a p2per. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.53.24.127 (talk • contribs).

i apologize if anyone takes offense to this, but i changed the title of this section from "Ues it is accurate" to "Yes it is accurate", i do hope that is what it was supposed to say, and if it wasnt then i apologize and i will change it back, posthaste felinoel 20:01 (EST), 17 May 2006
Sure, you can fix blatant misspellings in section headings. Hyenaste [citation needed] 00:17, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
well i wasnt entirely sure if it was a mispelling felinoel 13:42 (EST), 18 May 2006

[edit] VfD

On May 14, 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep, no consensus. (A merge may be advisable.) See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/RuneScape gods for a record of the discussion. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 06:11, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Source?

Forgive me for asking this, but where in the world did all this come from?? We should have an external link to something. I can't find this information on RuneScape's website anywhere and I'm just curious. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:57, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Much of the information here comes from the "Letters" series, the letters to the RuneScape gods from RuenScape players. They are published periodically, and there hasn't been one published for a while. Also, a lot of information on the some of the gods, such as Icthlarin, come from RuneScape quests and their plotlines. -- Daverocks 09:22, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
would whoever wrote this mind if i asked specifically where certain things came from? because some things i have not heard of (like how amascut was originally a cat headed being) and i would like to know where they came from specifically felinoel 15:22, 17 May 2006
i looked, looked, and looked, but i cannot find anything stating that amascut was one cat-headed, i think this may be faulty information and i wish for someone to either allow me to fix it and add info that i KNOW is true, or for someone to do so theirself, keep in mind i have alot of info i am itching to add myself felinoel 21:06 (EST), 19 May 2006
i hear there is a way to find out the edits people have made, i wish to know how so that i may check out who put this amascut thing, i do not wish to delete it unless it truly is wrongfelinoel 12:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Go to the main article, click history. You should work it out from there. leave a mesage on my talk pag eif you have nay more problems. J.J.Sagnella 14:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
" 01:42, 27 March 2006 58.166.130.202 (→Amascut the Devourer)" hmmm it would appear that i find the persons ip address.... is there a way to contact them with their ip address? i want to know where the person got their information felinoel 17:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
If you're positive that's the right ip address than go here:[1]. Leave them a message there (just edit their page) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J.J.Sagnella (talk • contribs).
i am almost positive it was that ip address, and just in case it wasnt i didnt leave an insulting message, i asked the person nicely to cite his or her sources —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Felinoel (talk • contribs).

~Kang227~

I run the Official Zaros Research Team, and I will attempt to find links for all viable sources, and to verify the information on this page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kang227 (talk • contribs) .

Very well, but unoffical (ie, not Jagex) groups should really not be mentioned in this article, and the same for your RuneScape username. You don't want to attract the attention of every account hacker/talkspammer in the game now, do you? CaptainVindaloo t c e 16:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
official zaros research team? XD well anyways you peaked my interest when you said research, where is this team locatated? felinoel 06:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy?

Is there really a Zamorakian church in Varrock? I have scoured the city and never found it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.25.138.179 (talk • contribs).

There is. It's near the southeast corner of the town. Einstein 05:01, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

yes there is, by the rune store in varrock go to the litle place by it and youll see the mage and the alter —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.25.207.251 (talk • contribs).

He actually did a very good job on this article, and i trust its reliabilty. Yes, there is a Whitian church, he did his research. Curran919

Hello I'm the main writer of the runescape gods article and recently I deleted A piece on Zaros that I found largly innacurate. There was some parts that were true but those were already covered In the article on Zamorak-Chefodeath89 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chefodeath89 (talk • contribs).

was it about Bob the cat being zaros? bob actually says he is "Zar... erm meow?" when you speak to him and for a long time people was positive he was zaros felinoel 15:18, 17 May 2006

I have the Pictures of that P.S. these were not taken by me Zaros/Bob

Swordoftime1 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.232.195.227 (talk • contribs).

lol that pic is mine! i payed a guy to talk to bob with his catspeak amulet and send me the pics of the whole convo, i edited it into that and tossed it onto a god guide i wrote ages ago, the guy (doomed Necro) is now a friend of mine and he can confirm what i said was true XD, i think its funny that that old picture has found its way back to me felinoel 20:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rukazo?

Seemed fake to me, if it's not and someone has evidence, you know what to do —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.162.254.178 (talk • contribs).

what did it say about him? felinoel 15:21, 17 May 2006

Hey Felinoel, what is your rs name, I made this article originally and you seem to be messing some things up like the amascut thing. Mines chefodeath89 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.4.132.44 (talk • contribs).

My information is not flawed, Amascut is a goddess, Icthlarin is a demigod, I spoke with Jagex Mods about this, and you can even examine Itchlarin to see that he is a demigod
also my rsn is felinoel, but I rarely get on recently due to college felinoel 08:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standards

I've done some standardization to make all sections look the same. Helps with organization. Fuzzform 03:34, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

God forbid someone should actually start believing in or worshipping these gods. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fuzzform (talk • contribs).
Actually it would funny. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fuzzform (talk • contribs).
i do not think it would be considered funny, have you heard about the cthulu incident when the order of dagon was ACTUALLY formed?! felinoel 15:17, 17 May 2006

[edit] Dracatoza

Erm....who is he? I mean, in all my time in Runescape, I've heard of all of the other gods, but never this "pure evil" god? Am I just not good at finding him or something, because I googled it and got nothing. Fshy93 04:26, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

  Because it doesn't exist O_o —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.37.231.159 (talk • contribs).
hmmm, i have heard that name used before, but i was never able to get enough info on the being, so i just wrote the name down for me to get more info later, are we sure this guy does not exist? felinoel 15:12, 17 May 2006

[edit] The Mahjarret are NOT demi-gods.

Jagex confirmed on the official forums that they are not demi-gods. Here is the post from the general forum on the thread "Gods and the History of RuneScape":

Mod James

Jagex Mod

11 Oct 2005 11:16

I might as well clear up some misinformation that always seems to appear in these things - mainly I suspect because one fansite adds things and it then becomes 'gospel'.

Armadyl and Zaros are not gods of 'good' and 'evil' - that is something players have put upon them. Nothing has been revealed about their motives / alignments, it is all supposition on your parts :p

Hazeel, Lucien and Zemouregal are not demi-gods, they are Mahjarrats. Iban is arguably a demi-god, depending on whether you believe his role as 'son of Zamorak' to be literal or metaphoric...

Koschei is definitely NOT a demi god. I am not prepared to reveal what he actually is at this time :p

The Oracle is not a demi-god, spirit, or avatar. They are 'just' a (crazy?) human living on top of a mountain, who may or may not have an insight into the future...

Zamorak is not / was not a priest - he is / was a warlord.

The Mahjarrats are not immortal / demi-gods - they are just a /very/ longlived and /very/ powerful race, that were mostly destroyed in the godwars. There are a few still hanging around Gielinor however...

Armadyl has never been 'more powerful' than Saradomin. Armadyl was once Saradomins equal, but Saradomin is currently one of the most powerful deities in RuneScape (tied with Zamorak).Dtm142 16:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD results

This article was nominated for deletion; the result was no consensus to delete. For details, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RuneScape skills. BD2412 T 20:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delrith

Delrith drops 27 levels to level 1, not to level 27. I'm not sure who changed that, I can't find who did in the history report.--Cool Spy0 01:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Umm... I'm not sure what you mean. If you're saying that Delrith is level 1 he is not; he is level 27. ~Akroy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.26.106.2 (talk • contribs).

i do believe he is saying when you cast the spell on him he drops to level 1 felinoel 08:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Aha! He is lvl 27 after you cast the spell. -69.29.141.54

He is at first 27, but then when he is weakened, is 1. --Kolvo 00:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keeping the Article

Since it has been decided to keep this article, at least for now, when will it be open for editing? It has a host of grammatical problems that I am itching to correct (without changing the content at all), including run-on sentences and problems with subject-verb agreement, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xela Yrag (talk • contribs).

You mean this article??? Feel free to edit it right now. afd doesn't interfere with the ability to edit a page. J.J.Sagnella 15:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
this entry was considered to be deleted? why? or am i just misunderstanding you? felinoel 15:14, 17 May 2006

Wow do we really require this article? Gods of Runescape.... Is Runescape a religion now to have this much info on the Gods? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Koolsen (talk • contribs).

runescape is not a religion, obviously it is just a game, but this is to help with the gameplay, so one can understand the gods part of the plot of the game felinoel 02:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The gods of RuneScape are a VERY important part of the plot. This article is among the most important RuneScape articles as it has the most detailed look at the history of RuneScape. No where else is this information so well put together, and in one place. Wikitrue 06:45, 23 July 2006

[edit] wow i just noticed this place

how long has this wikipedia entry been on here? i am a major lover of learning all there is to know about the runescape gods, and i even won an award for having the most complete guide to the deities, demigods, spirits, heros, and history of Gielinor, i used pictures, quotes, and videos to make the guide and i was wondering if i may use some of this stuff here as well as add my own, the guide i have hosted online has not been updated for about half a year, but that is due to college, i keep notes and references for when i make a giant update on my guide and it will be a huge update, to make that update i joined a forum called the Runescape Sages but they are moderated by followers of Zaros and Armadyl and their opinions of the other gods are skewed because of their gods felinoel 15:00, 17 May 2006

[edit] "Guthix Prayer Book"

on the page it talks of the "Guthix Prayer Book", what book is this? is it the Book of Balance?" felinoel 17:26, 17 May 2006

Yes it is. Hyenaste [citation needed] 22:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
ah i see, i say it should be changed to either its true name, or since the reason why it was there was to reference to an item symbolic of a god with that god's name in the item's title, then i say change it to something like.... the zaros talisman, why not felinoel 20:26 (EST), 17 May 2006

[edit] Ring of Charos

It is said in this article that the ring of charos is a reward from garden of tranquility. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that it is a reward from creature of fenkenstrain. ~Akroy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.26.106.2 (talk • contribs).

Ring of Charos is from CoF, but as the article says, the unlocked Ring of Charos is from GoT. Hyenaste (tell)
Owning an unlocked Ring of Charos, i could confirm Hyenaste statement as truth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J.J.Sagnella (talk • contribs).

[edit] Editing

I've completed every RS quest but one, and as such will go through this page for accuracy. If someone finds something good that I deleted, feel free to revert. Snake712 04:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Care to explain then why you removed sections out like Charos and Kendal?

J.J.Sagnella 08:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Charos isn't a demi-god and neither is the Kendal. Therefore, neither belong in the Runescape Gods section.--Snake712 02:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
i keep videos and notes of the quests i do for such purpose, and i am almost done with all quests felinoel 08:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I spoke with Jagex Mods, Kendal and Fossegrimen as well as other "spirits of the mountains" are considered gods in the sense that they are worshipped like gods felinoel 08:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Info on Amascut is Incorrect

ok i have searched everywhere and i cant find any info saying what was stated about Amascut being cat headed, i messaged the person who had edited it and it was only an ip address though but no responce, i wont delete it now because i may have missed it somewhere, but i will leave it for a week and if it isnt proven to be correct or if it isnt deleted already then i will remove it myself felinoel 10:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

wow that was a mess to clean up but i did it, idk how someone could make that up felinoel 14:58, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually the cat Neite is the one who tells you she has the head of a cat and she cursed her followers to take her form, So you actually deleted some of the correct info, I'll fix it though -Chefodeath89 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.4.132.44 (talk • contribs).

Netie told me that her true form is as much of a cat as Icthlarin is a dog. This obviously means that she has the head of a cat. Dtm142 17:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Which quest is this from? I record all my quests for information gathering purposes, also i gave it a month (when i said only a week, because i didn't like not knowing if it was truely wrong) for someone to speak up and say it was true before I deleted it felinoel 08:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DemiGods?

Lord Draynor, Lord Drakan, and Charos are demigods? isnt a demigod the child of a mortal and a god? Also it is thought that itchlarin and amascut are demigods, apparently their mother, elidnis, wasnt always a god, but i havnt seen much proof of this yet so i wont say this for sure but i am inquiring about how Lord Draynor, Lord Drakan, and Charos are demigods felinoel 10:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Fossegrimmen is a spirit of the sea, but i will fix this listing later by adding a place for these guys to go which will be labeled as "Other Important Beings" felinoel 15:00, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ikov

do we have no information on ikov? i could scrap together some info but not too much is known felinoel 10:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

when you exmine icthlarin it says he is a demigod, idk about amascut though but they are brother and sister felinoel 14:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
i found from a jagex mod they are mearly brother and sister in a out of respect way, not in a blood way felinoel 06:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Akthanakos

i found this new camel-headed god of camels, i will get more info and post it then felinoel 14:45, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I think there is already information on him, unless you recently added it by yourself. I'd just like to point out that he is not a god, he is a Mahjarrat. 88.15.26.85 03:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Akthanakos is a majharrat?!?! omg i yelled at my brother for telling me he was a god, apparently my brother didnt know what a majharrat is, i was just going to do that quest today to get more info, drat a camel-headed god would have been cool to match with the menaphite demigods felinoel 20:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Please remember to add all future references to this link list. It will help avoid this thread being marked for deletion in the future. Wikitrue 07:10, 23 July 2006

ah ok then, "Runescape the MMORPG" there is my reference for everything I added, if you wish for me to get more specifc please indicate a specific topic felinoel 06:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nominated for deletion

I've nominated this page for deletion. This is the second nom.--Richard 19:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

is a reason ever given for these nominations? felinoel 06:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AFD result, clearance

The article has survived AFD, but the closing admin advised clean-up, can we discuss this? The onus is on us to define where this article should be going, how it should get there and what info is/isn't necessary (in the case of good-faith fancruft creeping in, defining exactly what should be here would be helpful). Please help with this, laying something down will make maintainence and moving forward less of a gutache.

To start here's my tenpence worth:

  • The article is 'Gods', not 'Gods and their underlings', to this end I finished what I started by removing fogie-wotsit and the demons - removing Count Draynor and Lord Drakan. Draynor might have had some more background tacked-on with the Morytania storyline, but he's the boss of a very early quest and gets stamped on by giggling newbies - hardly on a par with Sara/Zam/Goofy. Lord Drakan might well be closely allied with Zammy, but his name can be mentioned within Zamorak's own section as an example of his underlings.
  • Demons I've removed already, these were one-quest wonders who had no notability beyond being demons, themselves servants of one of the gods. Their inclusion seems more to do with listing every supernatural named being in RS rather than nailing down anything to do with the gods themselves.
  • Mahjarrat are not gods, as already discussed further up this talk page. They are a lot more interesting and more closely entwined with the Zam/Zar plotlines than the other non-gods that were here, but they're still non-gods in the gods' article. Thoughts?
  • If the process was given the time needed for consensus to form, is it out of the question that the gods cannot be merged into the main article or merged with other shorter articles? I understand that the main article desperately needed exploding due to its sheer size, but now that clean-ups are taking place, it still seems that contributors heartily dislike the idea of anything being merged back into the main article. Is the main article within a mile of being too large? Is there a lot of as-yet unwritten material due to go into the main article? Some guidance from those actively editting the RS article would be helpful, there's so much history to these things it's not easy to catch up. QuagmireDog 00:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
yes the mahjarrat are not gods, and you might as well remove them, they are merely there because when i fixed the listing (i also put the sub thing for drakken and draynor) because i did not want to delete information that people had gathered, but if needed delete away, also someone moved Icthlarin to being a god again, he is not, when you examine him you can see that he is a demi-god, same as ikov although i got the ikov is a demigod thing from mod matt p, but he said ikov was technically a demigod, i am currently working on a god guide for another site which i wrote mainly from memory, i might post a link to it here because what i wrote was 100% true (i know this because i checked with mod matt p) felinoel 07:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
ok if we want to save space, why is the only picture in this whole guide a person mining in Saradomin armor? that is the most useless thing ever!! felinoel 07:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't like running a knife through other contributors' work either, it's not what I joined WP for, really. However, the time when the articles could multiply and expand without many limits, and even continue to exist in that state has passed. Without the strong case that this article has not been cleaned-up yet, it might not have survived AFD at all. With that in mind, I've dealt with the open-and-shut cases. The mahjarrat (sp?) and the Menaphite pantheon both look excessive and under-the-radar to me, but without consensus I'm not going to remove them. In my mind, talking about RS gods means talking about the big three, with Zaros and Amardyl getting honourable mentions (Jagex has brought them up but so far hasn't integrated either into the game in a substantial way). I also think that if the lesser gods/demis were cut away, this article could be merged with some of the other shorter articles, preventing more ballooning and safeguarding the relevant info. That is just my opinion though, I'm doing nothing else without discussion. Thanks for your input QuagmireDog 08:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
The gods of the Menaphite Pantheon and the Mahjarats are two completely different things. The Mahjarrat are basically the humans of another planet/realm, whereas the gods of the Menaphite Pantheon are just that, GODS. In all and all, there is about 12 gods and demigods to consider, this includes demigods and "nature spirits" who are worshipped as gods, but there are only two "nature spirits" that i am accounting for. The "Big Three" are merely the most well known gods, and I doubt wikipedia is there to tell people what they already know, go ahead and take anything that is not gods or demigods from this guide (Mahjarrats) because they do not belong here, but why take off gods because they aren't welll known? felinoel 09:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Whether they're well known or not is peripheral to what I'm looking at. The article is aimed at those who know nothing about RS gods, rather than RS players, so whether players know them well or not isn't on the table. What I'm wondering is why a non-player should be given information on RS gods which have practically no impact on RS gameplay at all, dished up as though they do.

It isn't just that they're not as well known, they are not given the same treatment as the three main gods, to the extent that whenever anyone talks about 'gods' in the game they're invariably referring to the main three. The Menaphite pantheon are involved in their own quests, the main gods are involved in many quests a piece. The main gods have written 'god letters', communicating with players and building around the mythology. The main three feature in mini-games, have groups of followers dotted all over RS, have several unique items dedicated to them etc. etc. That isn't just a case of being unknown - Jagex have neglected to integrate these other gods into the game in a way similar to the big three.

The other gods are no more notable than scores of other characters littering RS, they pop up, do their piece and disappear again just as quickly. That's just the Menaphites. The same could be said for Amardyl - a single quest where little is said about him, that's it. A defining aspect of RS? Hardly. Again, that isn't interpretation, it's Jagex's own choices as to how much they develop these characters.

Zaros has been developed somewhat by the quests in the sub-Al Kharidian deserts, but is still a thousand miles away from the big three.

In terms of getting information from reliable sources, the big three are going to be a hell of a struggle, but the lesser gods featured only in-game during a quest are just not possible to source - because they're involved in quests there's little or no info on them in the RS knowledgebase because it would act as a spoiler. No third party is going to write detailed breakdowns of RS characters. So that means there's no actual proof that what is said about these gods is true.

Looking at it that way, I'd personally be inclined to chop back to the big three, not because they're 'better known' but because they're what are being referred to when the vast majority of players discuss gods, whenever 'the gods' are mentioned in-game, whenever a new 'god' item appears etc. etc. There is such a clear line that all I can think of is that the current article is an attempt to list every god on RS as opposed to write something about the big 3, who do have an impact in RS and which non-players could take something away from.

I'm removing the mahjarrat now - this discussion's been here long enough for interested parties to discuss them. QuagmireDog 19:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

again i say this, email me, the conversion would be much easier and also i check my email everyday where i check wikipedia whenever i feel like it, it is good that the mahjarrat have been removed, but if you want to go to only the main three then there might as well not even be a page for it, i have spoken with jagex mods, i have compiled a complete guide to all twelve gods and demigods starting with what i could fins in game, and finishing with what i could gather from the jagex mods. and so i conclude with EMAIL ME felinoel 06:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To QuagmireDog

You seem to request a conversation with me as for the editing of info on this topic, of course I request but how do you wish to converse? I have many things to discuss with you including the possible deletion of the info on the Mahjarrats on this guide (if not then at least add info on the other Mahjarrats) felinoel 09:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello there. Here on the talk page would probably be best - at least everyone can see what's going on and the reasoning behind it. I'm not spending as much time on WP as I have been - too much like hitting one's head against a brick wall at times, but I'd like to edit this article with you at some point. QuagmireDog 03:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Due to school and such, neither am I on WP much, I think emails would be best, that or instant messengers felinoel

[edit] Demigods?

No, no, no, no, no. Hazeel and Thammaron are not demigods, hazeel is a mahjarrat, and thammaron is a demon that zamorak used in his army, Icthlarin IS a demigod, i have said this before, when you examine him it calls him a demigod, i do believe i have video proof of this felinoel 06:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that they are gods as well. RuneHQ and RuneScape articles agree, so what are you basing your information on? Mamyles 22:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
First of all, RuneHQ's god guide is widely known as inaccurate. Second, I think he's right on all counts except for Icthlarian. It doesn't matter what his examine says if it says elsewhere in the game he's a full god.71.194.165.87 03:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
RuneHQ is a fansite. It's been wrong numerous times and is in no way verifable for RuneScape gods. The Jagex mod's post above debunks many RuneHQ speculations. The official RuneScape website displays little information about Mahjarrat, our best resource is ingame. But if we're going to write about Mahjarrat and demigods, let's be consistent.
  • The Mahjarrat are not demigods, as quoted above, so either remove them, or give them their own section. The only actual demigod that we know of is Iban.
  • If we do include the Mahjarrat, we need to add information about the other ones as well, since we haven't listed them all. Dtm142 01:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
yes runehq's god guide is highly inaccurate, the only most accurate one is the one i made myself for the sals realm of runescape, although to make it the most accurate i had to say things like, "it is thought that" and "people believe that" although most of my info for that guide was gotten through a jagex mod felinoel 06:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] contains fancruft

I added the fancruft template, a warning that the article contains fancruft and to partially deter an afd tag. With the recent deletion spree, fancruft can't remain. Exarion 21:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking we should just rewrite the whole thing. Pyrospirit Talk Contribs 20:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
please point out what you see as fancruft and bring it up in here felinoel 06:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
How long is a piece of string? Take a look around you, many of Wikipedia's articles are fancruft to some degree. No, Wikipedia is not a game guide, but neither is this article. Fancruft isn't part of the deletion policy, or any policy for that matter. WP:Cruft is an essay. Dtm142 20:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article or section does not cite its references or sources?

most of the stuff in this article can be found on the runescape website but alot you have to play the game to find out there arent any other places i know besides here that have anything on the runescape gods -drrake —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.160.129.109 (talk • contribs).

most? i would think it is more like all, the only reference it would have is the runescape game itself felinoel 06:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
How are we supposed to cite this sentence "Saradomin monks have set up altars of worship to him, the largest being the Monastery/Prayer Guild and a church on the island Entrana." anyway, when players all know that the two main Saradominist altars, with monks surrounding it, are in Monastery and Entrana? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.255.68.51 (talk) 11:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC).
You're supposed to find that documented somewhere in a reliable source. If you can't, it should not be there. -Amark moo! 16:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
again, RUNESCAPE, THE MMORPG, thats our source felinoel 22:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jahalsel

Is he even a real god? I've seen no mention of him ingame, and I'm done every quest. He was added in by an annonymous editor. 70.64.106.136 22:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't sure myself; I would have removed it but I haven't done all the quests, and it didn't show up anything in the hiscores, so it's not some player adding themself (which happens). I'll remove the entry as a hoax. Thanks for the information! CaptainVindaloo t c e 00:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
yes this is another hoax, this god does not exist in runescape —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Felinoel (talk • contribs) 22:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Icthlarin

For the last time he is a demigod, when you right click him in game and examine he, it SAYS he is a demigod, who is it that keeps changing it back?!?! felinoel 06:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demigods/Mahjarrat???

What is the meaning of this? The demigods and the mahjarrat are not even from the same PLANET, why would they be paired up? and also, what are the mahjarrat doing back here? they have nothing to do with the gods, except that they were involved in the first god wars, but then again, who wasnt involved in it (who was alive back then)

fine if people wish to keep the mahjarrat in here, why not talk about the other 8 known mahjarrat as well??? felinoel 08:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move to RuneScape history and reformat

The idea floated at the recent AfD was renaming this article and changing/increasing its focus to include an overview of the game's backstory, in addition to the gods. Any thoughts? Good idea or not? CaptainVindaloo t c e 01:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, thought I had mentioned this here but I guess not. In my sandbox I've got a copy of the gods page which was for a re-write if we survived AfD. Want to use it as a copy for RS History, then we can just move the page when we're done? Also, would it be the ingame history (eg. gods, first/second/third age, etc,) external history (development, etc.) or a combo of both? Agentscott00(talk) 01:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, the development history is covered at RuneScape, I think. So it'll be the ingame history. Hmm, maybe a better title, if people might get confused. Maybe we could put in some mortal recurring characters; King Roald and wossname the Librarian of Varrock crop up in quite a few quests, don't they? Dunno about keeping it somewhere while we build it up. I guessed a subpage of this talkpage, but I don't mind really. CaptainVindaloo t c e 01:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally I'd say keep the sandbox version for porting to the Rune-wiki, if anyone was willing to do so. That way all the current information would be saved and could be expanded further by interested parties - resulting in the best list of RS characters on the web :D All the mahjarrat etc. could be there, all the gods, all 'lords', leaders and nobility etc. etc. That way we wouldn't be playing back-and-forth here all the time and the list of NPCs wouldn't be bound by WP's encyclopedic nature.

The current article (even its title) just encourages visitors to spam it up with more obscure facts/rumours/hoaxes. A rename and mass-chop would at least betray all but the most neatly interwoven spam immediately and let visitors know it isn't a bucket for them to chuck in more random god info. Any good? QuagmireDog 14:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good. We'll also need some sources for the history part (first age, second age, etc). Do you think a rename would stop people listing themselves as gods? By the way, I'm just going to remove the god symbols/pronunciations from the article. If someone wants to replace them with screenshots and IPA, please do, but the current format just gets people edit warring over them constantly. CaptainVindaloo t c e 15:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, someone took the pronunciations out while I wasn't paying attention. CaptainVindaloo t c e 15:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I don't kid myself that anything done here will stop anyone from messing around, but approaching the subject with a no-nonsense attitude does seem to kerb over-enthusiastic (but well-meant) applications of WP:BB which muddy the waters. I've added the link to the RS wiki's god page to the external links. Sure enough, they've even got a mini article on the god of cabbages apparently mentioned by Melzar the Mad. Yet, they all seem stubs much smaller than the info here. With a quick cut to the big three the whole lot could be ported over to the RS Wiki and give them a shot in the arm. Likewise, pointing visitors to the RS wiki to get their fix would help us and the wiki. It's a win-win situation that'll help the RS wiki expand and prevent this article from getting AFD'd. QuagmireDog 16:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, I'm in total agreement that the three main gods are kept, but if the excess trivia is removed from them then the result can be shared with the RS wiki, whereas the other gods can just be ported over. Zaros seems well covered in the wiki, but that's pretty much it. QuagmireDog 15:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I dont like it, the runescape history is extremely unknown as it is, the info on the gods will most likely get lost in a deaper sea of uncertainty then they already are in felinoel 08:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciations

who was it that decided this is how you pronounce these names? i am almost certain it wasnt jagex, and so that makes the pronounciations listed just fancruft, and like all fancruft it needs to be removed felinoel 08:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

why did the worst god guide of runescape in existance get listed as a reference for this? felinoel 08:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Because the RuneHQ verifability team went through it....And it's still not fully accurate. Dtm142 21:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean "went through with it" went through with making the guide? felinoel 15:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Because other people made better guides than what is listed at that horrbile site who's admins curse at you when you have trouble registering felinoel 00:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
This is what it said: New God Guide!

Tuesday, Jan 23, 2007 News ID: 00603 The Runehq Runescape Validators have been working long and hard to bring you the new and vastly improved Gods Guide. This is an excellent piece of work and we thank you!

~(Sheep01)~

I do not think it should be listed as a reference, and we should not refer to it when writing this article. It still has many mistakes with the demigod section. Our only real resource is ingame.

The site's quality as a whole doesn't matter when choosing references though. Dtm142 20:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

the site's quality as a whole isnt the problem though, the actual guide itself is, which is actually why i wrote a god guide myself, runehq's horrible one compelled me to make it
http://runescape.salmoneus.net/gods_and_demigods.html
felinoel 21:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
oh wait you mean they actually FINALLY made a new god guide, it took them long enough, i bet it was all my complaining about it, when people i knew said they used runehq i would always yell about their horrible god guide felinoel 21:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


The validators spent many months on this guide. It contains accurate information. How do i know this? Because im the validations manager and the one who posted that on runehq. It is accurate. Sheepeh 01:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Explain how we know of Zaros's true alignment (evil)? Read the Jagex mod's post above. Dtm142 18:35, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I've removed Hazeel and Azzanadra.

I decided to be bold and remove these two Mahjarret from the demigods section. Powerful as they may be, they simply aren't officially demigods (as explained above), therefore don't deserve mention in the section. Being immortal, near immortal, or longlived does not constitute demigodhood (especially in RuneScape). If we do decide to include them, the section should be about all of the known Mahjarret and not just those two, and it should be separate from the demigods. Dtm142 23:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Can we even establish importance towards the demigods? I know that Saradomin, Guthix, and Zamorak are important, but are the demigods?--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 00:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Zamorak's family? I think that's pretty important. And if more get invented, they could be added. Dtm142 00:34, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Armadyl and Zaros

We have no proof that they are the gods of good and evil. Their alignments have never been revealed ingame through quests or on Jagex's website. For all we know, "The Empty Lord" could mean that Zaros is the god of empty boxes and crates (I'm not saying that he is, but that's as good a guess as any). Please do not change their sections from NPOV, even if some fansite guide says otherwise. Dtm142 02:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The article at its current state still doesn't have enough sources. Who can say that the info we have on Armadyl and Zaros right now are false? The statements on the page right now might be false!--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 02:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I cited a Jagex mod post earlier in this talk page that debunk's RuneHQ's guide (the post is no longer on the official forum). We can say that it's thought by some players that they represent good and evil, but we can't say that they do indeed represent good and evil unless there is solid proof in the game or on Jagex's site. Dtm142 20:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Zaros has Vampires, Dragon Riders, dark magicks, Mahjarrat, etc. He also conquered the known world and everyone hated him...NOT the actions of Mr. Nice Guy! Kang227 15:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

But does that mean that he's the god of pure evil? He may very well be evil, but doesn't necessarily represent evil. Not enough information about him has been given to us by Jagex ingame, and none has appeared on their site. Dtm142 22:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Time for a rewrite of some sort

Ok, it's about time we do something about this article. I propose a section-by-section rewrite of every section in this article, including the introduction, to remove all original research and finally get everything cited. It would also remove the unnecessary quantities of fancruft and trivia that has built up here, and it will probably expose some aspects of the gods that we didn't notice were missing.

Unlike in RuneScape locations, I don't think a complete rewrite is necessary, as this article has at least a decent structure, and it isn't too badly written as it stands now. But still, the way things have been going, we're never going to get anywhere here unless we start being bold and making some big changes. Pyrospirit Flames Fire 20:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It isn't that simple. Many fansite guides include information that is based on their opinions and theories. RuneHQ's information on Armadyl and Zaros's alingments is a significant example, as is their information on Mahjarret and demigods. Dtm142 00:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../r/u/n/Talk%7ERuneScape_gods_5ba3.html"