Talk:Royal Canadian Air Force

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[edit] Arrow

I suspect it was less "the changing nature of the Soviet bomber threat" than pressure from USG that led Canada to cancel Arrow in favor of Bomarc. And if I was the suspicious type, I'd suspect Arrow's perf was a threat to U-2...& CIA, always suspicious of Canada, believed there were Sov spies in the program... Trekphiler 01:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to agree with you, and perhaps we should mention something. But its important that we stick to claims that can be sourced and backed up. -User:Lommer | talk 19:26, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Agree. But this's a talk page, & I needed to vent... More or less, I just want to lay to rest the myth cost killed Arrow; it was inability to pay for both Arrow & Bomarc that did it. Unless somebody can substantiate the claim there were Sov spies... Trekphiler 05:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
From the perspective of an American who served in the USAF Air National Guard and who is an "at-large" member of the Air Force Association of Canada...I think that probably simple chauvinism and jealousy played into US pressure on the Canadian Govt to cancel the production of this very-ahead-of-its-time aircraft. After all, it would look bad on the mighty USA for its northern neighbor to have a wholly-indigenous fighter aircraft superior to anything in the USAF inventory at that time, with significant export possibilities (I believe the UK and Australia were interested in the Arrow). As far as the "Soviet spies" issue goes, at the time, McCarthyism was running rampant here and Americans were being led to believe there was a Commie in every bedroom, including senior positions in the US Military. So, naturally (dripping sarcasm here), with Canada moving toward what many uninformed Americans still regard as "socialism" (health care etc), I'm not surprised that some in the US Govt played the "red card" as a method to try and defeat the CF-105 and pressure the RCAF to buy Bomarcs and F-101's. Just a theory.--MarshallStack 04:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Disagree on only 1 point. After the Arrow was scrapped (a horrific act I still can't believe), RCAF had little choice but buy F-101s. (I doubt Hawker/BAe could offer such attractive terms even for reman'd Hunters...) I should also point out, tho, since that post, I've seen news reports that call the Arrow's performance into question (& I personally have begun to wonder: I see no sign she was area ruled. Was she really capable of Mach 2? Or were the "faked" numbers elevated, rather than reduced, as Dan Aykroyd's miniseries suggests?) Trekphiler 09:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RCAF

Can somebody check the dating of the maple leaf roundel? As I recall, it was intro in the '20s (with the creation of RCAF 1924?) but hasn't always been current. And can we cred W/Cdr Wilfrid Oulton, 58 Sqn, RCAF Coastal Command? During May '43, he sank U-463, U-563, & U-663. Trekphiler 05:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean by current? I know there's been a few variations on it (the styling of the maple leaf has changed) but AFAIK its always been the roundel used by the RCAF (though Canadian pilots often flew RAF planes in WWII). -User:Lommer | talk 21:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
As I understand it, the maple leaf roundel was adopted during the Second World war, but it was not actually placed on aircraft until after the end of hostilities. Several books have sections on the history and variations of the roundel on RCAF and RCN aircraft -- Pat Martin's book about paint schemes on RCAF aircraft comes to mind. If you look at any restored RCAF aircraft with a paint scheme prior to the end of the Second World war, it always has the appropriate RAF roundels for that location and period.
For a short period after unification a roundel was trialled that replaced the outer blue ring with red, along with the redesigned Maple Leaf. It wasn't adopted, of course, but I remember seeing a picture of an Argus with the red roundels.--MarshallStack 20:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


I'm not sure how this should be changed, but the section at the side of the page with the list of aircraft is for the contemporary Air Command rather than the RCAF. One possible option would be to change it to reflect a list of significant aircraft through the history of the RCAF -- alternatively, it should be removed. --209.202.70.226 17:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I also think the Air Command Ensign should be removed and replaced with an image of the former RCAF Ensign, as this article is about the RCAF. Air Command is a later and completely separate entity.--MarshallStack 04:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The page is somewhat confusing. Everything on this page should be related only to the RCAF. Links could point to Air Command topics perhaps, if warranted. While we are considering changing things to be more "RCAF", the RCAF Ensign should be more "RCAF". The Ensign (and the Air Command Ensign for that matter), are the wrong color. The backgrounds should be sky blue, not gray-blue. BrianC 20:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I removed the CAF/CFAC infobox because it was not related to the RCAF and would cause confusion. If someone is good at putting together infoboxes, I think an RCAF infobox would be a good idea. Let's also make sure that if the RCAF ensign is placed in the box, it's the correct color. BrianC 18:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

A thought -- would it be a good idea to create 'stubs' for the 400 series RCAF Squadrons (400 - 449, originally, plus I think 450 squadron existed right at the end of the RCAF era), linked from here (and where relevant, from the CAF Air Command page)? With them in place, information about the history of individual squadrons could be added/linked by those interested in the subject, as well as relevant links from other articles here. I think there are already two or three of these. Just an idea.--64.201.38.62 14:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

What about the non-400 series squadrons in the home-based WWII RCAF as well (an example of which today is Canadian Forces Air Command 103 Rescue Squadron)? These are often overlooked, even though they did sterling work for Canada with their Hurricanes, Kittyhawks, Cansos, Lysanders etc.--MarshallStack 23:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

About the section on WWI and RCAF formation . . . Why is no mention made of Raymond Collishaw and the Black Flight? (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Collishaw and http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/canada/collishaw.html .) Excepting only Billy Bishop, "Collie" Collishaw is the greatest airman Canada ever produced.

Last, when did the Canadian Armed Forces adopt that most beautiful of all flight suit colors known as Canadian Air Superiority Blue?

[edit] You're not elves

Didn't RCAF participate in the ferry service? Trekphiler 10:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roundels

Why was the low vis roundel removed from the article? The RCAF - Roundels page seems to show one on there... And so does the markings section of the 2005 edition of Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide. J.P.Lon 14:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The low-vis roundel was never used by the RCAF (which existed until unification of the services in Feb 1968). The low-vis roundel was and is still being used, however, by the CAF (Canadian Forces Air Command), which was what Canada's air force was called after Feb. 1968. This WP article is only about the RCAF (1924 - 1968). The Canadian Air Force has its own page where the roundel could properly be illustrated. The RCAF.com page webmaster has taken a broader approach in what he includes in his website and has decided for some reason to include post-unification (CAF) information and symbols for historical reasons. The RCAF - Roundels page does label the roundel as CAF (post-unification) rather than RCAF. BC 18:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
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