Talk:Ronnie O'Sullivan

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[edit] Conversion to Islam

Ronnie denied having converted to Islam! [[1]] [[2]]

I am sorry. You are totally right. Thanks for the info. Cheers -- Svest 00:10, 4 October 2005 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

No need to apologise - it's a wiki! In any case, as I recall, his conversion was presented as fact on the BBC at the time, so it's not a foolish error to make. RMoloney 00:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I've heard that but never checked the facts or whatever. I was editing List of Muslims tonight and found him there. That's the reason why I added the cat to his article. But, thanks anyway for the update, otherwise I'd maybe've died thinking he was a convert ;) Cheers -- Svest 00:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

[edit] Bipolar disorder

I've searched and searched and can't find any reference to Ronnie's supposed bipolar disorder on the internet. It's a pretty significant thing to infer, so I've removed it pending its reinforcement with a reliable source. BigBlueFish 17:13, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Here is a reliable source. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/other_sports/snooker/world_champs_2002/1964282.stm

This is Clive Everton, who describes Ronnie as being a "manic depressive". Obviously, Manic depression is the old term for Bipolar disorder.

Can we get additional sources, and include it in the article? It's a strike against the Cat when there's only one source, and 'fact' can't be appended to the Cat... - BalthCat 22:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah, Dr Clive Everton, the renowned psychologist. If he diagnoses bipolar disorder then it must be true. BennyFromCrossroads 22:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last/current season

I wonder if it is necessary to half of the page to the 2006 WCs (it wasn't THAT interesting on Ronnie's part)?

You're probably right. Only the cue business should be mentioned. 194.150.177.9 18:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture of Ronnie

Don't think that picture is very fair, and changing it should be considered in my opinion. I know he didn't have a picture before but another should be found. BTW are pictures from the bbc website copyrighted? as that current image is identical to the one found here [3] - HyperHamster 17:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it's hardly appropriate and seeing as it doesn't show his face, it's not very useful as the main image. I'll change it. If someone wants to put that photo in the 2006 section that would be fine. 84.9.13.85 22:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I also strongly agree and thought the original image was very inappropriate the mooment I saw it. Thanks for changing it (above). I know the image was updated, but I've changed the image to be the same as that used on the German wikipedia page. I believe Ronnie is fantastic player and it's much better to have a picture of him playing fantastic snooker than of him in a moment of stress. Ronnie, if you ever read this, I wish you well. Those moments come to us all at times. James. —The preceding comment was added by 82.6.98.77 (talk) 02:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Birthplace

Where was Ronnie born? Most websites seem to say that he was born in Chigwell, Essex, but some sources (including the BBC's snooker coverage and http://archive.stourbridgenews.co.uk/2001/5/8/50772.html) say Wordsley, West Midlands.
He certainly grew up in Essex, but of course that doesn't mean that he was born there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bazonka (talk • contribs) 09:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

He was born in Wordsley, West Midlands, as his autobiography says so. (unsigned comment)

And can you also provide a citation for this, please?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/snooker/6180811.stm

http://www.answers.com/topic/wordsley

http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=9430258

(unsigned comment)

Thanks, so put them in the article. Extremely sexy 23:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link removed

I removed an external link (147 break from Ronnie vs. Drew Henry 2001 LG-cup) because it is broken. Sorry for not identifying myself, as I still don't have an alias here :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.84.45.101 (talk) 15:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] What has happened to this page?

I'm not a regular contributor to wikipedia, by any means, but I feel that there have been some recent edits to this article (over the past month or so) that have really diminished its quality. I don't think it's too controversial a thing to say that what O'Sullivan is best known for, in terms of his game, is that he is a naturally quite brilliant player, but also very erratic one. The previous draft of this article conveyed that rather well. The more recent version, quoted below, comes pretty close to vandalism, in my view.

He is considered by many to be one of the most naturally-talented players in the history of the sport.[2][3] His highest level of play has been argued to be unmatched in the history of the game of snooker,[opinion needs balancing] though the fact that players such as Stephen Hendry, generally accepted to be the best player of all time, and Steve Davis, have won significantly more makes this view rather dubious.

The two clauses of the second sentence do not follow on logically from each other; the previous version said something like "His highest level of play has been argued to be unmatched in the history of the game of snooker, though players such as Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis have won significantly more." That seems to me to be perfectly balanced and adequate.

Also, a large portion of the top section of the O'Sullivan entry has been moved to the bottom of the page and filed under 'Other'. This includes the Robidoux complaint (which is an extraordinary story that tells you a great deal about O'Sullivan as a player and as an individual) and the fact that he holds the world record for the fastest 147 break - that at least should clearly come near to the top of his wikipedia entry.

Can someone with more wikipedia experience than me revert these recent edits, please? Thanks! (86.135.124.209 12:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC))

Um, no. :-) They were made for good reason, at least with regards to the WP:NPOV changes. This is an encyclopedia, not a magazine. It is completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia article to label this player or that "best", "great" or other superlative, opinion-laden, subjective terms. The clean up of this article actually hasn't gone nearly far enough yet. Please read WP:NPOV closely. It is one of the Pillars of Wikipedia. "Unmatched in the history of the game"? Even most magazine editors would nix that as far too biased. Please also see WP:WEASEL: It is not encyclopedic to use phrasing like "widely regarded", "considered by many", "some say", etc. These are known as "weasel words", and they are used to make broad, sweeping, generalizing claims that cannot be sourced. That entire paragraph needs a radical overhaul, because it makes weaselly personal point-of-view claims about THREE players. The fact that someone can cite two articles that may say something similar about one of them does not mean this language will survive. At very best, a specific article by a specific person in a specific publication could possibly be directly quoted as saying something like this, but many would still object on NPOV grounds, especially if the quoted person is not him/herself notable. As for the "Other" edit, I don't know what's up about that. The article needs to be restructured anyway, to talk about his professional career in chronological order, and to discuss his personal life and problems at the bottom, and finally to have an overview summary at the top that really tells the readers the basics of why this person is notable. I'd been working on doing that, but number of people came in and added a bunch of more stuff, and that kind of got lost in the shuffle. I'll look into it when the editing calms down. May be a while, anyway, as we really need to have a standardized structure for these kinds of articles. I'm sure WikiProject Biography has some material that may be helpful. We'll see... PS: New talk page messages go at the bottom, not the top. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It was me who created the Other section. I felt that the previous version's Career section was not in order so I ordered it and put all the information that wouldn't fit there into the Other section (although I now see that the left hand ability and fastest maximum break can actually fit into the Career section). It was made as a temporary measure.

I agree that some the other edits have been rather biased and a little careless; reference 4 was added for his temperamental streak but it is now at the end of 'many question whether he has the temprament to go with the talent, to enable him to win another four or five world titles, putting him on a par with Hendry and Davis'. [4]

I get the impression from the snooker commentators that Ronnie O'Sullivan has played some of the best snooker ever (but this seems too controversial to be added); I suppose that was why someone added that 'His highest level of play is arguably unmatched in the history of the game of snooker'. What is less controversial is that many think that O'Sullivan is the most naturally talented player ever.

Another thing is that there is too much on the most recent years, even factoring in that these years have probably been even more eventful than previous ones. No mention of his first World Championship win in 2001 for instance. Christopher Connor 15:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I would generall concur with all that (with one quibble); this article can't even get to B-class much less Good Article status without fixing the overall "magazine style" tone and "he's just so great! nonencyclopedic stuff. The quibble is that even if commentators and snooker reporters and so forth think he's the bees knees, they themselves and their opinions are not notable. If the Snooker Hall of Fame said he was the most naturally-talented player, different story. It might be possible to salvage that part by changing it to something like "widely regarded as one of the most naturally-talented..." and then cite multiple sources that establish this (not that he's naturally talented, but that he is widely regarded as being so; i.e., articles that assert that this is a widely-held view, not articles the authors of which simply say he's naturally talented, if you see what I mean.) — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Updated article assessment under WP:BIO

Assessed the article as a Start-class rather than Stub-class. See Talk:Ronnie O'Sullivan/Comments. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

His father is Ronald John O'Sullivan, so, to describe him as Ronald Antonio O'Sullivan Jr. is wrong. (unsigned comment)

That's already been taken care off in fact. Extremely sexy 23:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Then the article is wrong in a different way. Fixing. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irish Masters 2007

Was it or was it not a ranking event: I guess not (as per two sentences in the article), but someone wrote that it was his first ranking event win since he won the same tournament two years ago, in 2005, the previous time it had been held, so what is correct, please? Extremely sexy 10:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it wasn't: there are a few inaccuracies in the section which I'm fixing. Stonecold21 20:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

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