Talk:Ron Wyatt

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Regardless of the accussations regarding qualifications, it ignores the real issue; what of the items found at the bottom of the red sea or in arabia as described here --> http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/red_sea.htm??? Why is it that his qualifications are always attacked and not what he finds?

Cheers!

The items claimed to have been found at the bottom of the Red Sea have never been seen - he refused to produce them. The other items also, with rare exceptions, have either never been seen, or never been handed over to scientific experts. This became his usual practice after he did allow scientific study of his Ark site (at Durupinar), and was told that it was a natural formation. PiCo 04:35, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emotive language

In a wikipedia article I think it's the done thing to avoid emotive language such as "amazing!" I have tried to edit out such remarks. --Charlesknight 14:41, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Why are wiki-editors continually calling Wyatt a "swashbuckling personality." I knew him personally. He was quiet and reserved. Where is the documentation that states otherwise?

Good point I've removed it. (please sign your comments by clicking the button third from right) --Charlesknight 20:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Amazingly enough (but why should I be surprised?) there is a Wki article on Swashbuckler. The word apparently originates from boastful swordsmen who would go round making a racket by hitting their sheilds (bucklers) with their swords. It also says this: "Today the term "swashbuckler" is used to denote a particular type of character and is usually applied to fictional characters. A swashbuckler will display a strong sense of justice, an aptitude for and enjoyment of fighting, and calmness, class, and wit even during combat. The archetypical swashbuckler is a handsome young rapier-wielding European man from the 16th to the 18th century, though as "swashbuckler" is a character type, it is not confined to time or place." Doesn't sound like Ron!PiCo 07:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

From the Wyatt Faq and Rebuttal ( http://www.webspawner.com/users/ronwyattfaq/index.html )-

IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT SUGGESTS THAT RON WYATT HAD A PERMIT TO DIG AT THE GARDEN TOMB? 

The answer is yes. A letter retrieved from http://www.Idolphin.org/wyatt1.html of the account from a disapointed Bernard Brandstatter, a man which I had corresponded with in e-mail and claimed that Wyatt invited him to the dig. Brandstater states:

"The next two weeks were exciting, and I can tell here only the essentials. We first got written permission from the Israeli authorities to pursue an exploration at the Tomb. Two of our team (I was one of them) accompanied Wyatt into the office of Dan Bahat, the official in charge of archeological activities in Jerusalem. I listened to the coversations, and could judge at once that the two men had met previously, and had already discussed the proposed probe into caves in the Garden Tomb. The permit was clearly legitimate; I watched Bahat sign it."

"Our team proceeded to the Garden Tomb, whose custodians were expecting our arrival. Wyatt had negotiated cordially and successfully with them. With an assortment of gardening tools we set to work, moving a large pile of rubble and rock which had accumulated where Wyatt had probed earlier...."

Additionally a letter from the Garden Tomb director (May 22, 2000), Peter Wells, states:

"At the request of Mr. Dan Bahat he was given permission to access the caves via our property."

Scholar William Shea of the Biblical Research Institute, wrote to John Paige of Australia, [and this fact can be verified since Shea is still among the living], and in a letter that was signed by him and said the following:

"Yes, Ron Wyatt did have a permit from the department of antiquities to work there for several years. He also had permission from the Garden Tomb authority. I contacted Rudolph Cohen who at the time (1986) was supervisor for the Dept. of Antiquities to get Ron's permit extended. Cohen said that he had to set up a supervisory board of three qualified archaeologists."

And in a signed letter to Ron Wyatt Shea wrote on July 20, 1986:

Dear Ron,

"Have arrived back from Israel after conducting all of my business there in 3-4 days. I did get over to see Dan Bahat at the Rockefeller Museum but it was hard to catch him. They say there that he does not like to sit at a desk but prefers to be out in the field or doing something, but I finally did catch up with him after the thrid (sic) try. The results were not too encouraging for your project. Of the four points you wanted me to ask him about:"

Later in the letter he states:

"Bahat himself does not want you to do any more tunneling as he says this is not sound archaeologicial technique and if you found something it would not be demonstrated so in proper relations because of a lack of stratigraphic digging. So the way the site has to be approached according to his instructions is to dig a series of 5 meter squares up to the face of the cliff and inwards, that way you will have stratigraphic control over your findings."

There are also a number of known individuals who have worked with Ron Wyatt and the Israeli antiquities on a number of projects. They are: Eric Lembke of Paradise California, who told the author of this FAQ that an Israeli inspector checked up on them in one of their digs in the mid 90's.

[edit] Re-write

I've made a major re-write to make the article conform more closely to Wiki standards - informative, NPOV, and as brief as possible. I welcome input from other editors, but please explain any editing here in the discussion area. PiCo 01:09, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Why do Wikieditors continue to censor the fact that famous archeologist Ekrem Akurgal supported Ron Wyatt's find of Noah's Ark? Or why edit out the fact that Bernard Brandstatter, a critic of Ron Wyatt admitted that Ron Wyatt had a permit? See http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html. Are the editor's humanists with an agenda?

First off, wikipedia is a fraud in reference to the Wyatt article in which case every rewrite is subject to some hidden editor who keeps reverting the article to what he wants it to be. The article is poorly organized and organized per the hidden editor's humanistic point of view. First off, the article starts off referring to the weakest, and unsubstantiated portion of Wyatt's claims, but doesn't go into any depth regarding the highly supported portions. I ask the question to this editor, "do you feel uneasy at being exposed as using Wiki in this manner?" Please, tell me why you don't allow the article to state that Wyatt's Mt Sinai site is supported by others? Why do you hide the fact that Joe Zias was merely a MUSEUM CARETAKER? ZIAS NEVER SIGNED PERMITS. Why don't you tell us why Zias is any authority on Wyatt? or why don't you tell us why you believe Zias was in on any loop in regard to Wyatt's work. Please, tell us what Zias' credentials are? I also wonder why you do not print the portion of the Garden Tomb letter which states that Dan Bahat asked the Garden Tomb permission for Ron Wyatt to dig there? Or why are you ignorant of the fact that William Shea worked with Dan Bahat and Ron Wyatt in the Garden Tomb?

jmnow@hotmail.com

I removed this sentence:

"The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) have always been well aware of the excavations, and, while most of the permits were verbal only, between IAA and Ron Wyatt, the IAA have issued official permits to all WAR excavations since 2002."

Since the preceding paragraph quotes an offficial of the IAA saying that a qualification in archaeology is needed in order to excavate, and since Wyatt never had any qualificationS, and since so far as I can tell from the WAR website none of his followers do either, I'd like to see a citation for this claim before including it. PiCo 22:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I am the one who put this sentance in. I have been in the meetings with the IAA when they issued us (WAR) permits, so I know. It is not neccesary to have a degree in archaeology to excavate in Israel. You must have a qualified archaeologist work with you. And we do. Issued by IAA themselves. Tennessee R

Hi I think Wikipedia classes that as original research.

--Charlesknight 19:48, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I just deleted Tennessee R's para about the IAA giving verbal permits to WAR. Since Tennessee R is apparently a member oif WAR, I have doubts about his/her impartiality as a source. And I'm still faced with the IAA offical's statement that excavations require archaeological qualifications (which seems perfectly sound to me). So I'd like to see a citation more solid than has so far been offered. PiCo 23:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

He/she appears to be either Richard Rives (President of WAR) or one of the family.

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=7&t=187&m=33#33

--Charlesknight 22:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

"Members of Wyatt Archaeological Research claims: "The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) have always been well aware of the excavations, and, while most of the permits were verbal only between IAA and Ron Wyatt, the IAA have issued official permits to all WAR excavations since 2002"

An example to the credibility of the last statement is the official IAA archaeologist Yehiel Zelinger in his 2006 report on http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/report_detail_eng.asp?id=327&mag_id=111 (August 2005, Permit No. A-4549)"

How's this?

That seems to be a confirmation that they permission for a dig in 2005?

--Charlesknight 20:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I have cleaned up the text a bit but if a claim of permits for 2002 is made - a source needs to be given. --Charlesknight 21:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] unsigned comment

Why do Wikieditors continue to censor the fact that famous archeologist Ekrem Akurgal supported Ron Wyatt's find of Noah's Ark? Or why edit out the fact that Bernard Brandstatter, a critic of Ron Wyatt admitted that Ron Wyatt had a permit? See http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html. Are the editor's humanists with an agenda?

Please cite references for Ekrem Akurgal's support of Wyatt. As for Brandstatter, the web-page you link to is very interesting, but not conclusive proof that Wyatt had a permit to undertake an archeological dig. Brantstatter states that he saw "Dan Bahat, the official in charge of archaeological activities in Jerusalem", sign "a permit" to dig at the Garden Tomb. I'm sure Brandstatter is an honestreporter, but is he an accurate one? What exactly did Bahat sign? What makes me doubt Brandstatter's belief that it was a permit to carry out an archaeological excavation is the extreme casualness with which the "dig" was undertaken - Brandsatter goes on: "Our team proceeded to the Garden Tomb, whose custodians were expecting our arrival. Wyatt had negotiated cordially and successfully with them. With an assortment of gardening tools we set to work..." Gardening tools? No site-survey? No records of finds? Just arrive and start digging? This approach is simply not appropriate to genuine archaeology.

Incidentally, I'm also fascinated by Brandstatter's analysis of Wyatt's personality - B. sees him as a man who genuinely unable to distinguish truth from fantasy, even when faced with physical evidence (in this case, the evidence that there was no opeing in the tunnel through which a hidden chamber could be seen), and unable to admit that he was wrong. Wyatt would make a fascinating subject for a movie. PiCo 04:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)