Talk:Roman Polanski

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Contents 1 Polanski or Polański? 1.1 Article move 2 Indecent assault charges 2.1 Discussion of the rape charge 2.2 Samantha Geimer's testimony 2.3 "Criminal indictment", fourth and fifth paragraphs 2.4 Consequences of the rape case 3 References and footnotes: too large? 4 Factual errors? 5 Sharon Tate's murder 6 Adrien Brody 7 Speculation on Polanski's motives in filmmaking 8 Rename to "Polanski" 9 Polanski Plea Bargain 10 Not Jewish 11 French citizenship 12 Rape

[edit] Polanski or Polański?

Shouldn't his name be spelled "Roman Polanski" instead of "Roman Polański" on EN, since almost everybody uses "Polanski"? WhisperToMe 03:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the original spelling should be used. Following this logic, Lech Wałęsa should be redirected to "Lech Walesa" as this is perhaps the version the world is most familiar with, but which looks pretty odd to a native speaker of Polish. "Almost everybody uses..." Generally no one can be expected to know and use foreign diacritics, but this is an encyclopedia after all, so IMO native versions of names should be preferred. -- Ijon-Tichy 12:38, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Tell that to Confucius (Kong Fuzi).--Greasysteve13 12:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Polanski is a filmmaker and I've never seen him use an accent when he spells his name. What is our source for the accented name? -Will Beback · † · 18:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article move

I think the article should be moved to Roman Polański. I guess it was created here before Wikipedia started accepting diacritics in titles. What do you think?--SylwiaS | talk 09:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, he's credited in English films without the diacritics - Isn't he living in France now? WhisperToMe 02:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

The name is originally spelled with ń, and is therefore more correct that way. It also does not confuse anyone to leave the diacritic on (no ambiguity, the n can easily be discerned, etc.), and it was most probably due to technical restrictions, carelessness, and/or ignorance (or a policy based on the like) that the name has been spelt Polanski on movie posters, etc., rather than because of a specific wish of Mr. Polański to spell it without the diacritic. As Wikipedia supports Unicode, there is on these grounds no reason to drop diacritics of this sort. – Krun 16:41, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Please realize that using diacritic marks in links results in an invalid link. The search program interprets the diacritic as nonsense, not the intended character. CFLeon 21:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I propose we move the article back to "Polanski". It is the most commonly used version, including by the subject. I don't see any sources which indicate he has used the diacrticial or accent. Most of the internal links from other articles are to the unaccented redirect. -Will Beback · † · 18:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I see that on his official website http://www.rp-productions.com/ he does not use a diacritical in his name. Unless someone can find a source showing him using the diacritical withing the last few decades we should remove it. The Wikipedia naming convention calls on us to name articles with the mostly widely used version of a name. Outside of Poland I doubt anyone besides en.Wikipedia uses the diacritical. -Will Beback · † · 20:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indecent assault charges

[edit] Discussion of the rape charge

why does this article put the blame on the child and neglect the fact he could have urged her to tell her mother she wants to stay? and he had power over her and authority so obviously she wasnt gonna fight him, on top of it he had to get her inhibitions down with alcohol and drugs. If this kind of thing were allowed it would set a precedent for child pronography. Also he knew how old she was beforehand and set up the photo shoot himself not the mother, he also had another underaged victim who was 15-16 who was ana ctress right afterwards showing that he had no symphany and really is a pedophile.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.135.56.61 (talk • contribs) .

Is it worthwhile to add more details about his relationship with the young girl, or is that just not worth rehashing in an encyclopedia? It is a part of what makes him a significant figure. David 19:42 Sep 26, 2002 (UTC)

Well, yes, if he claims it was consensual or something I think that would be relevant--regardless of whether we or the court agree with him. My $.02 (we mention Hitler's hatred of the Jews & how he blamed them for Germany's problems; that doesn't mean we agree, of course). --KQ 19:56 Sep 26, 2002 (UTC)

Views have been advanced that Samantha Gailly (her maiden name)'s mother set up the whole situation as part of an extortion plot against Polanski. This theory, discussed in Polanski's autobiography, deserves further investigation. While this does not exonerate Polanski, it suggests that some sort of charges should have been brought against the mother and at the very least she should have been deprived of custody. --209.178.190.82

Well, investigate it yourself and then hope a contributor picks it up off a site or book or whatever. I'm sure it'll be appreciated, but the Wikipedia doesn't conduct its own investigations. It makes summaries and references reports already made. You know, like an encyclopedia. 68.9.205.10 14:32, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not an encylopedia and we should really stop spreading this lie. Most of the articles are a piece of fan fiction, many others have long since fallen victim to wiki lobbying.--69.153.28.102 17:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

There's plenty of links in the article (and I'll add one from the victim's article). This is a significant event that has greatly affected Polanski's career, at the very least by limiting him to what countries he can be in, so it deserves mention. Also, the victim deserves some credit here. I'll fix that. --ssd 04:06, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is more "career" info in the "controversy" section than in the "career" section. I feel this article needs some re-organizing. --Feitclub 03:38, Sep 8, 2004 (UTC)

And it's hardly appropriate to include being done for statutory rape in the introduction. That nowhere near covers half his significance, but it does cover half of the introduction. I'm removing it from the intro for now. Hardwick 07:29, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The sentence was replaced. Does the crime have to be in the lead paragraph? It was reprehensible, but it doesn't (shouldn't) define him as a figure. --Dpr 03:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it does. He fled the US to avoid prosecution and remains to this day a fugitive, refusing to take the risk of having to face Justice or having to deal with his crime. That says something about his basic character. CFLeon 03:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Samantha Geimer's testimony

Samantha clearly says that the sex was not consensual. Although the charges were reduced to statutory rape, it seems obvious from the evidence and the presence of drugs that a rape has been committed. [1] "It was not consensual sex by any means," wrote Geimer in her article. "I said no repeatedly but he wouldn't take no for an answer. I was alone and I didn't know what to do. It was very scary and, looking back, very creepy." I think it is important to mention this, because a lot of people think that raping a minor automatically means "statutory rape" which is rather demeaning to minors (i.e. it implies they can neither give nor withold consent). Obviously rape is worse than statutory rape, and I think the original charges need to be pointed out in the article, preferably before the reduced charges are mentioned, to clear up the widespread misconception that Polanski's crime involved consensual sex. A5 19:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

If someone is deceived into doing something, then they didn't give their consent even if she wasnt raped and didnt say no and the whole thing is made up. Also, if someone drugs a woman/girl and gives her alcohol to break her inhibitions before having sex with them its also rape. Anyway, you could tell how old she was by looking at her face, she still had a kids face, so although her body was developed you would have to be retarded not to tell shes a kid by looking at her baby face. Also he couldn't give consent because of her age, thus it is statutory rape. Allowing 13 yr olds giving consent would lead to child pornography being wide spread.

I have been scrupulous in citing the Geimer testimony transcripts, insofar as the "rape" allegations are concerned. Anyone who has questions about it shoudl read the actual transcripts, which are eye-opening. --TallulahBelle 21:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

If she hadn't cried "rape" and got me sobbing my heart out, I just might be tricked into thinking Polanski was telling the truth when he said he was set up. No offence meant, but I truly cannot imagine any sane person actually swallowing this. Go back and read that bullshit she told the police, and see if I'm not kidding... it reads like a rehearsed checklist of evil things to do to little girls, plus she even added that cute little detail about her period so that we all know he is kosher about menstration even when he's high on a drug that she knew more about than he did! These lurid stories are fine for the likes of Dr. Laura, but this is really beneath the standards of wikipedia to treat these allegations as even marginally reflecting what actually took place (especially since we have only Geimer's unreluctant word for it). Sweetfreek 09:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Criminal indictment", fourth and fifth paragraphs

This paragraph appears to be blaming the victim for Polanski's rape. When a 43 year old man violates a child of thirteen there is no excuse and this paragraph must be re-written, unless it is wiki policy to blame victims?

What do you mean? If you're referring to the parenthesis, it simply states Polanski's own version, from his autobiography (not "wiki policy"). --Mathew5000 19:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

These paragraphs were consummate examples of 'bias by ommsion' that my history texts are so fond of mentioning.

For example, they stated 'Geimer's mother asked her directly if she wanted her to come pick her up. Geimer said no, she wanted to stay with Polański'. Not only had the author neglected to mention that prior to this Polanski had said the photoshoot remained unfinished, they had also expanded on Geimer's testamony of merely "No" [2], thus implying a familiarity not stated as present.

Furthermore, the sentence, 'Geimer, knowing full well that it was a third of a quaalude tablet, said, "Okay"' neglected to point out that (if we are not disputing the accuracy of Geimer's statement as a whole) by this point Geimer was completely intoxicated. It is unlikely anyone aged 13 and drunk knows 'full well' anything.

Using as much restraint as I can... I have no idea what the author was thinking with the concluding sentence 'They then proceeded to continue shooting photographs, and eventually to have sex'. Not only does this imply consent (which according to Geimer was not given), it also completely ignores the issue of ASSAULT. To describe any alleged rape as merely, 'to have sex' indicates both bias and an incredible lack of respect.

Theoretically these edits have removed most of the POV in these paragraphs - I have no problem altering/debating/defending as needed... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nylarathotep (talk • contribs).

I think Nylarathotep may have shown a little too much restraint. I edited it a small bit more, but overall it seems POV to give all these details of what led up to the alleged rape, without going into detail about the alleged rape itself. I'm not suggesting we do that, but rather that we strip down the section to some basic facts that are clearly relevant to Polanski's life. (All the direct citations of the court transcripts are, to me, a bit of a red flag suggesting an element of original research. We should ideally be citing newspaper articles or books, so that it isn't us making the judgment call about what the important elements are.) --Allen 06:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consequences of the rape case

1. On extradition it is said that Polanski is a French citizen. Is that the case?
2. Did the state of California request the US government to convey a request to France that Roman Polanski should be prosecuted? I know at least one case where a French citizen was (successfully, if I remember well) prosecuted in France for a murder committed in the US.
3. Is it true that Polanski has never since returned to the US, for fear of arrest? David.Monniaux 18:36, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] References and footnotes: too large?

The references section here is huge, and far outweighs the needs of the article for citation and further reading. I don't think the goal here should be to annotate every book and citation on Polanski's life, but rather to include some gems which are good overviews or provide specific citation for article text. I know nothing about the citations (and don't speak the language in which many are written), so I don't think they do either of these things adequately. Perhaps someone with a little more expertise can trim this list down to a reasonable size? --ABQCat 07:33, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. It's a problem. I've been thinking that because this is English language Wikipedia, everything of any other language must go! Probably a lot of others could go too - I don't believe for a second that they were all used in creating the article. It really looks like just a list. Rossrs 10:20, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

After laboriously fixing the useful footnotes in this article, I cannot help but agree that the unreferenced works need to go. Since there's been no discussion since 1995, I will action this do-it. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 15:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

And now it's done. I have removed all unreferenced works except those either written by Polanski, involving interviews with Polanski, and Mia Farrow's autobiography, which extensively refers to Polanski. Share and enjoy. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 15:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Factual errors?

There is an inaccurancy: "It may be telling that Polanski chose to play the lead in his next film, The Tenant (1976), the story of a Polish immigrant living in Paris". The film doesn't find out Terkovsky's nationality. He represent of all immigrants who can't adapt theirselves. BTW: This Film is very good.--62.87.163.40 22:15, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't the quote from an E! clip show be removed since it is by definition an opinion, not a fact? If you can fit it in somewhere else it is an interesting comment that I personally agree with, but putting it in a "fact' section is pretty dubious.

[edit] Sharon Tate's murder

Was Sharon Tate eight or four months pregnant (there seems to be some inconsistencies here) ? -- Tochiro

She was 8 to 8 1/2 months pregnant - don't know how someone could think she was 4 months... -- FireflyAngel

[edit] Adrien Brody

A lot of Americans actually think Roman Polanski is Adrian Brody, because they've never seen Polanski, but they see "a Roman Polanski film" and then they see Adrian Brody. At one point after Adrian Brody's anti-war oscar acceptance speech, Chris Rock (I think it was chris rock) said "Didn't that guy rape a little girl?" on a talk show, and in fact nobody corrected him. While I find this kind of funny, the image of Brody above Polanski is probably just making things worse. 66.41.66.213 12:59, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

"A lot?" I've never encountered this. One unfortunate mix-up, if that happened, is not evidence of a widespread misunderstanding. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.131.12.228 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Speculation on Polanski's motives in filmmaking

"It seems somehow important to Polański at this point to make a film for children, and maybe also for his own children." Whose judgement are we reading here, about what "seems" important to Polanski? -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:11, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This might have come from an interview. (referneces?) As the movie has not yet come out, it may be too soon to speculate much about it. --ssd 17:09, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it may be in one of the 420 listed references. ;-) Do you wanna look for it, or shall I? Rossrs 10:25, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Whatever it was, this sentence is long-gone, and the issue is thus resolved. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 16:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to "Polanski"

I propose moving the article to "Roman Polanski" unless someone can provide sources for the subject spelling his name "Polański". His own website uses "Polanski" and that's how he's credited in his movies. -Will Beback · † · 02:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. -Will Beback · † · 08:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I can't agree with you! He's real name is Polish, with Polish diacritic signs. It's simple. In English-speaking world "ń" in his surname isn't using, because keybords doesn't have the Polish signs. We should use in an encyclopedia real names! notlogged Wikipedian:Kowalmistrz

Please provide a source which shows that is how he spells his name. If you consult his recent movie credits or his persoinal website you'll see that he does not use a diacritical. It's common for people in the entertainment industry to change their names. -Will Beback · † · 01:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, this is the English-speaking world. -Will Beback · † · 03:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Since there's been no further input, I'm going to move it back to "Polanski". To avoid problems if anyone wants to move it again please discuss it her first. -Will Beback · † · 22:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Look, when Polański talks to somebody from the English speaking world or other non his native Polish, he spells by "n", I think. Because they don't know "ń". It's easy. But, in fact he is Polish (with Jewish background), and his real, POLISH name is PolaŃski. It's an encyclopedia, not IMDB. :P In his Polish passport (he has too) his name is Polański, not in French, it's obvious. OK, I could agree with "ń" in main parts of the article... ? Kowalmistrz 23:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

We've got a policy for this: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). Common use for the English speaking world is with a regular n. Hope that helps. Doctor Sunshine talk 06:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anyone offering evidence that he uses "ń" in any context. Even if he uses it on his Polish passport that still wouldn't mean it's the most common usage in English. As the article now stands the text about his family and early years uses the "ń", while the bulk of the article uses the plain "n". That seems like a reasonable compromise. -Will Beback · † · 07:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is :) But, in the main name of the article we should use "ń"! Look at Alejandro González Iñárritu or Pedro Almodóvar... Kowalmistrz 13:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The question is how the individual's name is usually spelled by authoritative English-language sources. If you look at the English-language poster for Babel, for example, you will see that Iñárritu's name is shown with the diacritics. Can you find an English-language poster for one of Polanski's films that spells his name with the "ń"? --Mathew5000 17:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, his own autobiography, in the English-language edition, spells his name Polanski, not Polański.

The article title is not supposed to be his full legal name that appears on his Polish passport. For example, the Wikipedia article title for the 42nd U.S. president is Bill Clinton, not "William Jefferson Clinton". See Wikipedia:Naming conventions. --Mathew5000 17:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Responding to Kowalmistrz, Almodóvar's films have exclusively been in Spanish, while Polanski's most famous films have been in English. Furthermore, Polanski does not use the diacritical in his film credits or his personal website, while Almodóvar does.[3] Lastly, there's no question that Polanski is best known in the English language as "Polanski", not "Polański". -Will Beback · † · 21:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, but, hello- THIS IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA. Not IMDB or something! We should use "ń" in main points of the article, in biography AND IN THE MAIN NAME OF THE ARTICLE. onyl for it's a real encyclopedia, I think. Kowalmistrz 23:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

What does the fact that this is an encyclopdia have to do with it? Do other encyclopedias spell the names of people in ways that they themselves don't use? Aside from his film credits, his biography and his personal website, all of which use the unaccented "n", what evidence do we have for his "real" name? -Will Beback · † · 20:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polanski Plea Bargain

I have corrected the statement that Polanski faced a 50 sentence under the plea negotiated with the prosecution.

As footnote 11 of the article makes clear, Polanski was only liable for the 50 year sentence if convicted on the original six-count indictment. Since he only pled guilty to the least serious of those charges as part of his plea bargain, then even if the judge disregarded the prosecution's recommendation for probation, he could not and would not have received anything so draconian. The dropping of the most serious charges was already agreed to by the prosecution as part of the bargain, and was wholly within their own discretion, not that of the judge. Cspalletta 07:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not Jewish

If his mother's mother was not a Jew, then he is himself not Jewish. 152.10.188.107 06:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French citizenship

He's a French citizen, that's even the very reason why he was not sent to the United States for his trial. See All Movie Guide Arronax50 20:37, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Before a 1992 change in French nationality law, being born in France was enough to claim French citizenship. So his place and date of birth constitute enough evidence. Tjarls 16:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rape

Form reading this page I think it would be an important addition to note that

1. Geimer lied about her age so she could consent to posing nude 2. She had a 21 boyfreind and was consenting to sex —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 158.234.250.71 (talk • contribs) 16:32, March 26, 2007 (UTC).

What is your source for this info? We need to meet the requirements of the Wikipedia:Attribution official policy before we add it to the article. Thanks, Satori Son 16:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)