Talk:Roman Dmowski

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[edit] LGBT? Source, please

What is the basis for adding LGBT category? There is nothing about this in the article itself. It was added by a bot. I am removing this until this claim can be proven. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:27, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Removed reapperaing entry again Guest 13:00, 17 October 2006

[edit] Regarding My So-called "Uncited Slurs"

Recently, this page was subjected to a drastic editing by an anonymous user who removed what he or she called "uncited slurs" against Dmowski. Chiefly, all th material that argued that Dmowski was a vicious anti-Semitic was removed. The author of this essay is something annoyed by this for the following reasons:

• Almost every book and article I've ever read on the subject states quite clearly that Dmowski was a an anti-semitic. The books that deny that Dmowski was an anti-semitic are books that in this author's opinion are not very scholarly. Only here on Wikipedia is a Dmowski is a opponent of anti-Semitism. And people wonder why Wikipedia is not considered by an reliable source of information.
• Nowhere did the anonymous user post any proof that what I wrote was false. He or she simply called my work "slurs" against Dmowski. In fact, Dmowski was quite proud to call himself an anti-semitic, so how I am slurring him by calling him an anti-semitic, I don't understand.
• True, the material was not cited; but then the overwheming majority of articles don't offer citations either; in fact, the overwheming majority of the articles don't offer any references at all. Moreover, there were no references to this article until I posted them. And had the anonymous user taken the time to read Paris 1919, he or she would see that what I wrote was true. True, I didn't add the book by the great Polish-Jewish historian Ezra Mendelsohn until now, but it was something I was meaning to do. But since the anyonymous user already decided I was making this up, I doubt he or she would taken the time to read The Jews of East Central Europe Between The World Wars either. If people were actually take the time to read the books I list as sources, they would see that anything I write is true. Furthermore, there is no citation for the quote allegedly from Dmowski saying Poland would be poorer without the Jews. I don't want to accuse anyone of lying, but there is no source for a quote that dramatically contrasts with everything I've every read about Dmowski. Perhaps Dmowski did say that, but I would be very interested in reading about the precise context that he made that remark, if really did make that remark. Normally, I don't like to change other people's work unless it is something that is untrue, misleading or poorly written, so I left that quote in despite my misgrivings about it. But the point, material that is favourable to Dmowski does not need citations, but material that is unfavourable does need citations. This anyonyomous user is not playing fair.

But to sum it all up, I will expand upon this article and offer a citation for every assertion I make, and when I am done, hopefully we won't be having this argument anymore about whatever Dmowski was an anti-semitic or not. And if some people are uncomfortable with the idea of Dmowski as a anti-semitic, I would suggest that they build themselves an time machine, travel back in time, meet Dmowski and tell him that if wants to improve his historical reputation, he ought to stop going on about "Jewish conspiracies" all the time and stop slandering the Jewish people.A.S. Brown 06:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

More references would be great. I am looking forward to your expantion. The quote you mention is unsourced at Polish wiki ("Polska bez Żydów, byłaby jak zupa bez pieprzu: bez smaku"), and nowhere else on the Polish net (at least, not in the form similar to that used on Polish Wiki). If no sources are provided, I think it can be moved here for verification.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 20:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Update: One Polish wikipedian on pl wiki assures me that he has heard this phares '20 years ago, so if it is a hoax, it is an old one'. He suggest checking some books - and I found an English source for a smiliar quote tnx to Google Print: Gunnar S Paulsson, Secret City: The Hidden Jews of Warsaw, 1940-1945, Gunnar S Paulsson, Yale University Press, 2003, ISBN 0300095465. What was his source, that's another question. And please note that the quote is somewhat different: "a little salt may improve the taste of the soup, but too much will spoil it". Perhaps we can use this quote in the article, and move the old one here until a reference for it exact wording is provided.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 18:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I am moving this line “a Poland without Jews would be like a soup without pepper: tasteless" until can be verified, which thanks to Piotrus's good work may be sooner then later.A.S. Brown 18:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Dmowski hardly wanted ALL ethnic minorities purged-he viewed them as welcomed but only if they are small and serve as source of diversity in the country. He hardly was supportive of Christanity(having atheist views himself in private), and actually believed that Poles were beneath Germans and Jews in terms of social development. The changes and additions i brought come from "Nation in perspective of Roman Dmowski" by Bartosz Smolik:W kręgu historii i politologii. Księga jubileuszowa dedykowana Profesorowi Stanisławowi Dąbrowskiemu, Wyd. Uniw. Wroc. Wrocław 2002.--Molobo 09:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

The 'latest' study of Dmowski and Polish National Democracy is:

Brian Porter, When Nationalism Began to Hate. Imagining Modern Politics in Nineteenth-Century Poland, New York/Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000.

It is much removed from earlier, apologetic analyses of the Endeks and regards them as radical antisemites and proto-fascists. Porter notes, p. 228: 'The image of the Jewish parasite shaped Endek anti-Semitism. It facilitated the construction of the Jews as irrevocably alien, without granting them the status of nationhood and without inscribing them with any specific cultural, linguistic or religious features. To occupy their place in the National Democratic universe, the Jews had to remain amorphous and ephemeral, often unseen yet always present. The impossibility of assimilation had become axiomatic.'(Sammy67 16:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC))

I added the salt quote back in with the Paulsson source. I came across the source before I saw this talk page and didn't know the book was that popular! Aaрон Кинни (t) 11:17, 21 July 2006 (UTC)