Talk:Roald Amundsen
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Hi there, could some Wikipedian knowledgeable in dealing with Wikipedia images (encapsulation/layout) fix the trouble with disappearing bullet points in the external links section to the right of the lower picture in this article? --Wernher 00:54, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I put a question mark over the date of his death, as Amundsen's body has never been found and some or all members of the fateful flight must have initally survived. We therefore don't, and will probably never know if Amundsen initally survived. My sources come from 'Ninety Degrees North: The Quest for the North Pole' by Fergus Fleming. Copyright: 2001, Fergus Fleming. Publishers: Granta
[edit] Amundsen's Family??
I've been searching and i can't seem to find out much on Amundsen's family. Did he have a wife, children, brothers or sisters?? Does anyone know of a site I could visit that may have this info? Thanks
--Amundsen never married.
-- I am a decentant of Amundsen's cousin who homesteaded in Rosburg, WA, USA. My mother has done some research on the family, including Roald, and we know the following:
According to the 1875 Nowgegian Census, he had three brothers named Jens Ole (pronounced o-le) Antonius Amundsen(b. 1866), Gustav Sahlqvist Amundsen (b. June 7, 1868), and Leon Henry Benham Amunsen (b. Sept 1870). He had no sisters.
Roald Amundsen never did marry. However, there is a rumor in the family that Roald brought two Eskimo girls back from Alaska to Norway to be educated, of which he paid for. He never publicly said they were his daughters, but the family has often wondered. I wish I had dates or something to give credit to this "story."
[edit] 8 lbs != 400g
8 pounds avoirdupois equals 3.628 kg not 400g . One of these figures must be wrong (probably both). --jmd 10:23, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Candian Icebreaker named Amundsen?
Isn't there a Canadian ship named afther him too? Orcaborealis 10:57, 6 November 2005 (UTC) Here is a link with picture of the Canadian icebreaker Amundsen: Amundsen. Orcaborealis 16:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Paragraph on weather is wrong. Also, discussion of reasons for success over Scott seem POV
It is wrong on two major points. First, there is no evidence whatsoever that Amundsen had any better luck with the weather than Scott on concurrent dates. Scott had bad luck with the weather in March, when Amundsen's expedition was already out to sea. Apart from his rush to get to the Pole first and announce it to the world, Amundsen knew that after a 1500 mile journey he did not wish to be on the Barrier in March, when the weather was unpredictable. Second, -20°C to -40°C, the sort of temperatures that Scott encountered in March, is not particularly cold by Polar standards. Certainly not cold enough to slow down a good dogteam and driver. Amundsen's expedition often travelled 20 or more miles per day in similar temperatures.
- I agree that the discussion of the weather appears to suggest that Scott had worse weather, which was a major cause of failure. Was the weather really worse? Also, the "ruthless" slaughter of the dogs seems a bit much. I believe that the Scott expedition fed off of horse meat, was this ruthless? Much of Amundsen's success rests with his planning and forethought. He often allowed considerable margin when planning supplies. In fact, on the return from the Pole, food was in such abundance, that Roland Huntford states in "The Last Place on Earth", that Amundsen eventually was even feeding his dogs chocolate. Any section discussing the relative merits of the two leaders and the expeditions must address the shortcomings of each. Amundsen made mistakes, and Scott has been almost worshipped for nearly a century as a martyred hero. Jimaginator 01:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
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- The "cruelty to animals" thing is basically a fabrication by the British media. Scott slaughtered and ate his ponies, by design. Amundsen slaughtered and ate his dogs, by design. What exactly is the moral difference? If anything, the evidence suggests that Scott's ponies suffered more than Amundsen's dogs.
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Reference to Scott eating his ponies can be found on the BBC website here; http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/discovery/exploration/south_approaches_03.shtml
[edit] More measurement oddities
I've removed the following:
- "Detailed analysis of the data recorded in the expedition's diaries determined that members of the Amundsen expedition actually got to within 200 metres (220 yd) of the precise mathematical point of the South Pole. In contrast, when Scott reached the Pole, analysis of his data showed that his expedition was no closer than 4500 miles from the mathematical point."
First of all, 4500 miles from the pole is not even on the Antarctic continent, so Scott would have had to have been trying to reach the Pole by traveling north. I assume the editor who added this meant meters. However, this website states that Scott's party, having found Amundsen's camp, "marched seven miles south-south-east to a spot which put them within half a mile of the Pole, altitude 9,500 feet." Half a mile is 2640 feet, approximately 805 meters — nowhere near 4500 meters, let alone 4500 miles. Unless we have a source for this "detailed analysis", it should probably stay off the page. JHCC (talk) 14:42, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
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- Huntford goes into quite a bit of detail in The Last Place on Earth on this subject, and Cherry-Garrard's The Worst Journey in the World cites the diaries of Scott, Wilson, and Bowers for an account of Scott's arrival at the Pole which jibes with Huntford's account. Amundsen spent three full days at the Pole - he was very aware of the controversey that surrounded Cook and Peary's claims to have reached the North Pole. The removed statement, "Detailed analysis of the data recorded in the expedition's diaries determined that members of the Amundsen expedition actually got to within 200 metres (220 yd) of the precise mathematical point of the South Pole" is practically a direct quote from Huntford's meticulously researched work and therefore is almost certainly accurate enough to cite in the article. On the other hand, Scott's frenetic and half-frozen 24 hours at the Pole could not hope to produce the multiple sightings over 24 hours that Amundsen needed to verify the Pole's location. They found Amundsen's "Polheim" camp and the letter to Scott, and supplies, in the tent. They then marched in a direction SSE until they found a black flag left by Amundsen, and which they believed marked the location of the Pole. In fact, they discovered one of three flags (each about a mile away from the mathematical point, so the likely error in the original text was probably 4500 feet, not meters) placed by the Norwegians to triangulate the position of the pole. Amundsen actually left a note explaining this with each of the flags, but the note was misunderstood by Scott's party and they headed north, believing that they had reached the spot. In fact, their march from Polheim to the flag actually (again, according to Huntford and the experts he consulted - see his Sources) was lateral to the Pole, and indeed they ended up further from it, not closer to it. Some form of the above information ought to be included in the article; I will leave this comment for awhile for discussion first. Cheers, Kgdickey 00:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] How to pronounce his name?
It would be nice for some of these unusual names to have a phonetic spelling or something to help pronounce it.
- The link to Bear Island leads to a disambiguation page with entries which don't look very applicable.
[edit] Weather on Ross Ice shelf
The text now includes this sentence "On their return to the Ross Ice Shelf, Scott's group experienced prolonged blizzards and low temperatures which have only been matched in one year since continuous records began to be kept in 1956" but the web page it refers to says: "The data recorded by Scott and his men from late February to March 19, 1912, display daily temperature minima that were on average 10 to 20°F below those obtained in the same region and season since routine modern observations began in 1985. Only 1 year in the available 15 years of measurements from the location where Scott and his men perished displays persistent cold temperatures at this time of year close to those reported in 1912"
Does anybody know more about this 1956 number or should we change it?213.213.145.213 05:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- I put the number in because I got confused between the weather station installations and the IGY in 1956/7, sorry. I have corrected the date. Dabbler 12:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Clothing used by Both Teams
I've removed:
- As a result, the use of fur clothing which was suitable for dog sledding would have been dangerous for Scott's team as they would have become saturated with sweat.
This would not appear to be significant. Amundsen's group did not wear their fur clothing when it was too warm or when they were working hard. Likewise, Scott's people undoubtedly wore less when too warm and would have known the dangers of collecting sweat.
It might be useful to add a little more detail on equipment.
CashelStreet 20:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Building of hut
The article now states that the crew of Fram built a hut, while Amundsen and his crew where on the depot trip. This is inaccurate as the hut was built in Norway and re-erected when they got to Antarticta. See Framheim.
You could have edited the article yourself.
Reinhardheydt 13:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Axel Heiberg Glacier Route
"If this previously undiscovered route had not existed, then Amundsen would have failed to reach the pole."
This is not a useful statement.
- On the contrary, the article claims that Amundsen was the ultimate planner and organizer and so was able to reach the pole and survive. Yet he took a major gamble on finding a closer alternative route to the Beardmore glacier up to the polar plateau. No one knew for sure there was any such route. 74.103.34.126 11:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
He did take a chance that he could find a practical route south from Bay of Whales. If _a_ route had not existed, Amundsen would not have gotten to the Pole. Indeed, if the route from Bay of Whales to the Pole had been much more difficult or complicated, he might not have gotten to the Pole, or gotten there later, this goes without saying. Yet this provides little insight into what actually happened. It might also be said that if Shackleton had not discovered and taken the Beardmore route, Scott might have traveled further south on the Ross Ice Shelf and ascended to the Polar Plateau via a different route, which might have been a benefit to him.
Amundsen does appear to have been a very good planner and organizer, even though he forgot to take snow shovels south. He certainly appears to have been knowledgeable about clothing and travel in Polar Regions. He paid great attention to equipment. He understood the use of dogs and skis. CashelStreet 22:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
