Talk:Rickson Gracie

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Contents 1 400-0 record 2 MMA record 3 Achievements 4 Relationship to Kyra 5 This article was cleaned up. 6 Speculation

[edit] 400-0 record

This article is horribly POV. Who wrote it? Rickson Gracie's 400-0 record is heavily disputed and unsubstantiated. This piece reads like an advertizement. --Malathion 09:02, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

No entry on Rickson would be complete without the 400-0 claim, I put it back in with some more info to make it NPOV. Tufflaw 17:34, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

Doesn't he have a documented loss in a Sambo tournament? Besides, your edit is better than the original, but the main article still references it. This whole article is full of Rickson worship and exaggerated, idealistic claims about him. A complete rewrite of the article is probably needed. --Malathion 01:15, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Fixed POV, added info on the disputed Ron Tripp Sambo match. Tufflaw 03:17, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Looks great! Good job. I'll see if I can get a source on the sambo thing. --Malathion 11:30, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

24-June-05 The 400-0 is almost certainly false. The real controversy is who created this myth - Rickson himself or his fanboys. Helio is own father said the 400-0 record is hogwash. http://bjj.org/interviews/rickson-97-11.html has Rickson giving an excuse on why he lost a sambo match.

Helio didn't say its hogwash only that he didn't consider them real "fights". Some are even street fights like against Hugo Duarte on the beach or Rickson vs Judo legend Hayward Nishioka in a dojo fight. But those fights are as real as they can get.Sage99 16:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MMA record

Currently the MMA record is taken from Sherdog.com, which includes the (first) match against Zulu. This, however, is described as an "independent event", ie. basically a challenge match between two individuals. If this is counted as part of the record, one should also count the rematch between the two fighters, as well as, potentially, any other opponents Rickson faced in non-professional events. Yet many other MMA fighters, including Rickson's brothers such as Royce, have also fought in challenge matches, some of which have been recorded on video as well, but these are currently not being counted -- by the logic above, shouldn't those private matches be counted as well? This may potentially be a problem. Shawnc 07:02, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Not really a 'challenge match', or 'non professional'. It was a stadium with lots of spectators, and was televised for the 'Vale-Tudo' TV show. Parts of the tape can be found on Google Video. It wasn't a Grace in Action type dojo storming like the Royce fights I believe you're referring to.PointyShinyBurning 13:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Achievements

In addition to his fighting record, the following claimed achievements are also highly disputed, and have never been corroborated:

- Gold Medal winner in Sambo at the Pan Am games in 1977.

- Two time Brazilian National Freestyle wrestling champion.

- Sixteen year middle-heavyweight and no weight division World Jiu-Jitsu Champion. --130.233.16.188 01:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Relationship to Kyra

This page now says that Kyra is Rickson's niece in the main text, and his daughter in the links at the bottom. Does anyone actually have a source as to her parentage? My google-fu is weak, I can't seem to find this anywhere.PointyShinyBurning 11:12, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article was cleaned up.

This article has been full with non-verifiable material for quite some time, so now i've cleaned it up to contain ONLY the material that can actually be verified. --Marcus 16:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speculation

"Rumours have surfaced that he is training again in preparation to fight Kazushi Sakuraba in a K-1 match by the end of the year."

This sentence needs to be sourced. The reason I say this is because there have been rumors about Rickson coming out of retirement for 6 years! Why should we believe it now when it has turned out to be false on so many occations?

agreed

In the last few months, I've seen mentions of it -- a verbal agreement between Rickson and Sakuraba. However, the author of that did pointedly put "Rumours." As a result, I vote to keep it in there for now and simply keep our eyes open for further information. -- Dan N.