Talk:Richard Shaw Brown

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An individual covered in this article, Richard Shaw Brown, has edited Wikipedia as
Rsbj66 (talk • contribs).
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 25 January 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.


Contents

[edit] Request for Comment: Original Research AND Advertisement

The main contributor of this article, Rsbj66, is the subject himself.

[edit] Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

  • As per WP:NOR, it is applicable to the test of notoriety and encyclopedic worth. The article also cites many quotes by his co-workers and those that stand to gain from the celebrity of the subject. This is subject to WP:NPOV. The article also lists a company where the subject is employed. That in itself is not a problem, but by breaking NPOV, statements by and achievements of the company may be considered an advertisement. -- Emana 21:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Its really stripped down 90% of the article to bare bones, and added and arranged references. Is there anything else you can suggest? Thanks!--Rsbj66 18:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE REVIEW: Concerning Richard Shaw Brown actually, from a global standpoint, we have far more than "several" International articles ABOUT me to establish CURRENT notability (according to what other editors have written) SINCE AFTER the band. So current notability combined with previous (band) notability, and all is well referenced, it seems like your requests for Richard Shaw Brown to be improved are complete. If not, please let me know what else needs to be done besides providing "several" bona fide references.

Your helping in making the article (and others) suitable for Wikipedia is much appreciated. It is very concise now compared to original article. And excessively referenced. It is 100 times better.

Thanks in advance!!! Best wishes, Richard--Rsbj66 23:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

Original research, while contrary to the relevant policy, is not a criteria for speedy deletion. (Proposed deletion is a theoretical possibility, but anyone can remove that, so it is not relevant when there is a dispute on a page.) Even obvious hoaxes are supposed to go to articles for deletion where they get community discussion; we've seen things thought hoaxes that were demonstrably not once a good researcher took a look at them.

Subjects of articles that wish to make facts about themselves usable in Wikipedia should ensure that those facts are first published elsewhere, possibly on their own website. People are generally a reliable subject on their own history, so a person's own website (if verifiably theirs) is an acceptable source for anything but the most outlandish claims. On the other hand, if I claimed on my website to be the 27th president of the United States, I'd be treated as non-reliable.

The more usual issue when an article's subject is editing their article is conflict of interest. More specifically, in this case, the relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Autobiography. While strongly discouraged, it is not forbidden. Anyone writing one should be aware that others may edit the article into a state very different from that in which they left it.

Reference books should be used and cited, not listed in the introduction.

The article is currently in poor state with regard to weighting of significance; the most important aspects of the subject's career should receive the most extensive treatment. This appears to be the music portion, but the work as an author may merit significant prose attention if the books are widely reviewed or of significant importance.

The collection of quotes needs clean-up. Wikiquote is the proper place for storing quotations, and if there are a number of quotes about the individual in specific, they can be linked to using the {{Wikiquote}} template. (They appear to mostly be about the band, hence that templateprobably that should be on the band's article.) GRBerry 18:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

About 90% of the article is now deleted. The references are sorted out. Hope it's OK.--Rsbj66 18:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

NOW CLEANED UP WITH MULTIPLE CITATIONS It was requested that I need "several" published neutral references to clear this up. So in all there are 22 references. The article is completely stripped down to basic facts and 22 references are given (more than several are international, and most of the big articles are notable as a gemologist and designer, or post-band notability). There is no fluff. And all referenced. Rgds--Rsbj66 23:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 200 Articles

Richard, the issu of the 200 articles being published "by you" or "about you" is quite confusing. As the reference provide is a list of articles "by you" and the edit you made contradicts that. -- Emana 21:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

About 450 articles and interviews have been published on my work over last 15 years, including many trade and society and fashion publications. But I'm only listing 200. About 80% of the articles listed of 200 are ABOUT me and the rest are by me published in different media (not by me). Perhaps it would be right to say, "200 articles published about and by me"--Rsbj66 00:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NEW COMMENT

Emana said in another talk that my notability STOPPED with the band. Actually this is the opposite of the truth. To the Richard Shaw Brown page we have 15 references given on post band notability, for example: He is currently working as a gemologist and designer in Bangkok, Thailand[1][2] [3][4][5][6][7][8][9], etc. Brown has 11 published books. He has appeared on television in Thailand 30 times[10]. Over 200 articles about and also by Brown have been published in various magazines and newspapers in Bangkok, Asia and abroad[11] [12] [13] [14]

[edit] References

  1. ^ Ranard, Andrew. "Gemologist Focuses On the Spiritual", International Herald Tribune, October 31, 1994, pp. 20.
  2. ^ "The 9 Royal Gems", Bangkok Post Newspaper, December 1, 2006.
  3. ^ "Thai Dealers Designs are Out of This World", Jewellery News Asia (Hong Kong), September, 1990.
  4. ^ "Profile: Richard S. Brown - "Gem Expert Charts Path to the Stars"", Bangkok Post (Business News), May 19, 1997.
  5. ^ "Executive Life Style-The Accidental Gemologist", Singapore Business Times, October 30, 1993.
  6. ^ National Jeweler Magazine (1990). Gems Jewelry Looks to the Stars. National Jeweler USA. 
  7. ^ Colored Stone Magazine (1996). Gemstone Guru. Colored Stone USA. 
  8. ^ Hong Kong Standard (1988). Exploding Rock Mythology. Hong Kong Standard. 
  9. ^ Jewelrers’ Circular-Keystone (1991). What’s New In Jewelry. JCK USA. 
  10. ^ Thai and English TV appearences. Retrieved on January 30, 2007.
  11. ^ Magazine and Newspaper Articles about and also by Brown. Retrieved on January 30, 2007.
  12. ^ FOCUS (1991). Astral Fashion with Gemstone Talismans. The Nation Newspaper (Thailand). 
  13. ^ Asia Magazine (1992). Cosmic Gemstones. Hong Kong. 
  14. ^ Bangkok Gems & Jewellery Magazine (1993). A New Addition to the Crown Jewels of Thailand. BGJ Bangkok. 

I have a list of many MORE references but it's already overkill. Over 300 articles have been published about Richard Shaw Brown and his work, AFTER the band. So by any standard I am more well known for my work after the band. Best wishes--Rsbj66 16:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable?

I understand that Brown has been mentioned or featured in many magazine/newspaper articles and has appeared on television. What I would like to know is what was mentioned in those articles and programmes that makes Brown so interesting and notable? Billions of people around the world are always mentioned in papers and TV, but not continuously. There must be some theme or background that makes Brown the "go-to" guy for the journalists and reporters. What is that? His Gemology background? If so, why is gemology so notable? What's the difference between a gemologist and a jeweler? Can one be both? Is gemology a religion? Is it part occult like psychics? Is it science? Is it based on statistical analysis - therefore a mathematic study? What did Brown do for Planetary Gemology and what effect did Planetary Gemology have on the culture surrounding it? -- Emana 20:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

First thing is I'm a jewelery designer since 1975, a brand name, with totally unique and innovative designs which have received loads of free media coverage based on merit;

Second I'm also a gem expert, as a gemologist, from GIA, Gemology is a science of elite minerology and and highly respected knowledge concerning quality and ID of genuine and good quality gems v/s bad quality and fakes;

Thirdly I have developed (or accepted) my version of an already established field of metaphysical or astral or Planetary Gemology, that enables me to teach people how to cast birth charts and determine the best gem. I myself do this service free for VIPs, while sales staff do free for any interested people who visit any location.

Planetary Gemology is practiced by Hindus and Buddhists for centuries whereby 1) a qualified astrologer choose the best gem(s) along with an explanation as to why, then 2) obtaining a GOOD quality gem, then 3) getting it set in ususlly boring meaningless settings. Then they begin wearing on the day of the planet, like ruby for Sun to start wearing at Sunrise on Sunday, or Pearl for Moon on Monday, etc. Every Hindu, Sikh, Jain, Buddhist, and others all know well about planetary gemology since ages. It is a combination of Jyotish with physical Gemology.

Because I am able to choose the gems (successfully), plus supply the fine quality natural gem, plus have my own designs, over 250 designs in 9 big hardbound book, which are becoming popular since last 31 years. And I put it all together as a completed talisman, with numbered certificate, and then sell at "jewelry value" with no charge for supposed powers or luck, which is simply a belief system among Asians, viz Planetary Gemology (Indian: Rasi or Ratna). Because I got all that together (starting from scratch after 12 years on the run, penniless) therefore I became known to millions, specially in Asia - Thailand - Singapore - Hong Kong. They don't care about my old band, they respect and love my designs and creations, and thus I have 30 sales staff running 6 locations plus free museum, and have a DB of about 40,000 persons for whom we have done free charts. Many of them are Clients, right from the top of Thai society.

In answer to your questions it is because of the unique beauty and quality of my creations and the special way we use astrology to choose gems, all have combined to interest the media all over the world. So we have received massive PR coverage. Just 2 days back I gave a TV interview... which makes 32 TV shows about me.

BTW: In my bio should it mention that I speak Hindi, Bengali, and Thai, and read Sanskrit and Hindi? That is stated in the International Herald Tribune article.

Emana, I'm not sure why you seem so adverse to my business. I am notable for my jewelry creations much more than for music. And I am supporting over 36 employees, rather, they're supporting me, and I'm not getting rich. I own a Thai company that pays taxes, keeps ONE set of accts., is noble, and metaphysical, and honest and fair. If otherwise I couldn't last. So please be respectful of my business just like for my band. There is nothing wrong with "making a living" and supporting my family and employees.--Rsbj66 23:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Richard, I am not personally attacking you or your business practices. I am asking you to present your articles in a more encyclopedic manner. I am not the only one reading these articles and definitely not the only one you need to convince. I will refrain from any further contact with your articles. You fight the lions alone. -- Emana 17:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


---Hi Emana, before, my article was not correctly created... and it was mostly you who taught me what to cleanup, and you who said if I could provide a few independent articles then you would be satisfied with me. The article, after your help, is now very neutral and short, and doesn't promote my livelyhood. I don't see why I have to fight any lions?? And thanks for the help--Rsbj66 15:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copies

I will gladly send Xerox copies of any articles, features, or interviews about me to any post address anyone likes. If Emana is interested to see what the articles say I'll gladly send you copies as directed. Really--Rsbj66 23:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Queen Sirikit Navaratna

Please merge any relevant content from Queen Sirikit Navaratna per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Queen Sirikit Navaratna. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. —Quarl (talk) 2007-02-11 23:38Z

What is the code for redirect?--125.25.134.139 16:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC) <---Oh! It is already done! Thanks.

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