Talk:Richard K. Sorenson

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Related task forces (nations and regions): United States military history task force Related task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

An entry from Richard K. Sorenson appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 7 June 2006.

[edit] Survivors?

OK, so who were the other two? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.10.127.58 (talk • contribs) 20:59 UTC, June 7, 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for the question. The other two were Richard E. Bush and Carlton R. Rouh. I've added the information to the article. —ERcheck (talk) @ 01:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hmmm. The entry for Jacklyn H. Lucas says that he threw himself on one grenade and pulled a second underneath himself and survived both explosions. This was at Iwo Jima. He was in the Marines. That article lists him as "undoubtedly saved his companions from serious injury and possible death". Unless the intent is to limit mention to Marines who survived jumping on a grenade that would have caused others certain death rather than possible death, he would seem like a fourth.

[edit] Reference to Nocebo

I inserted a link to Nocebo; and within a short time I received the following message:

Good day. I find that you have added a link to Nocebo into a "See also" section on Richard K. Sorenson, U.S. Marine Corps Medal of Honor recipient. I cannot determine the relationship between the Nocebo article and Sorenson. I have removed the link at this time. If you believe that there is a relationship and it is appropriate for the article, please discuss it on the Sorenson article's talk page. Thanks. —ERcheck (talk) @ 06:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The rerason for inserting the reference, was in relation to this brave man's selfless decision to throw himself on a grenade in order to protect his mates.

I am fairly new to Wikipedia, and I have been led to believe that one of the driving notions of the Wikipedia is to cross-reference as mch as possible, to assist readers.

In the Nocebo article, I have written the following:

It is important to distinguish these self-willed deaths from other, self-imposed sorts of death, such as: the self-inflicted deaths of suicide, voluntary euthanasia, or the refusal of life-extending treatment; the heroic self-inflicted death of a soldier who throws himself on a hand grenade to save his mates, or that of the Antarctic explorer Captain Lawrence Oates (“I am just going outside and may be some time”); or the religious self-inflicted death of the self-immolating suttee, or the mors voluntaria religiosa of the aged person, of whom religious elders have permitted to voluntarily, peacefully and slowly end his/her life by fasting.

I was specifically using this reference to this brave man as an example of somebody who threw himself on a grenade to save his mates.

Now, if it is that, in your opinion, the fact that he did not die means that I am either being disrespectful or being inaccurate, I would beg to differ.

However, given that my purpose was neither sinister nor disrespectful, and that it seems that there may well be other people who can provide me with what, under theese circumstances, may be a far more universally acceptable answer, I would simply request that I am provided with a new name or names of such heroes.

By the way, I stand corrected; and, thank you for pointing out the extent to which one aspect of my example did not "map across", when so many other aspects did "map across". I am certain that, with more relevant information at my disposal, my point, as originally intended, will be far better madeLindsay658 06:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response on Sorenson as an example of the concept

• Thanks for the response. Two points on the use of Richard Sorenson as an example:

1. The Nocebo article used Sorenson as an example of a "self-inflicted death". In Sorenson's case, since he did not die, and in fact, as the introductory paragraph notes, he was only one of only three Marines in World War II who survived a similar action, so he is not an example of this specific concept (death).
2. The concept of "self-inflicted" death is not accurate in this case, nor in the other of Medal of Honor recipients that I have written articles for who have similiarly "thrown" themselves on grenades. These deaths were not self-inflicted. They were a direct result of the action of others — in this case by the enemy who threw a grenade in the midst of a number of Marines. Their direct actions saved others. If they had stood by, they might well have been killed as well as the others they saved.

The example of Lawrence Oates seems to be a better fit for the description of self-inflicted death. I'll move the more general discussion to your talk page. Again, thanks. —ERcheck (talk) @ 11:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)