Talk:Revolutions of 1848

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This set of pages looks great, but it doesn't seem to integrate very well with things like History of France and so on. To what extent are The Revolutions of 1848 in France and Second Republic duplicate articles? -- Tarquin 20:07, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

From the article: "Only England and Russia had no revolutions." I have some doubt about whether the word "England" is actually correct here. To the best of my knowledge there were no uprisings in Wales or Scotland. Ireland was caught up in the potato famine, but I don't recall ever hearing of anything resembling an 1848-style uprising there. -- Jmabel 09:03, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It's been 9 weeks and no one has replied. I am amending "England" to "the United Kingdom" -- Jmabel 07:11, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Well, there was a minor uprising in 1848 in Ireland, but it was such a farce that it is seldom counted. Perhaps it deserves mention though. -R. fiend 17:34, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

The Netherlands article says "there were no major events in the Netherlands". So maybe the Netherlands should be mentioned alongside the UK and Russia? DirkvdM 19:52, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Re the Netherlands: "the country became a parliamentary democracy with a constitutional monarch in 1848." Rmhermen 00:14, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't recall revolutionary activity in Belgium... john k 21:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There wasn't, afaik. If I recall correctly, the government of the day defused the situation by lowering the amount of paid taxes required for voting rights to the constitutional minimum. Perhaps that should be worked into the article somewhere, but I don't know much of the whole situation beyond that titbit... Random Nonsense 21:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Move

I moved this page to Revolutions (plural) - obviously there was more than one revolution. --Alex S 01:34, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

rewrite. this reads like a high school history textbook: a bunch of abstract mush that, after being read, imparts almost no knowledge to the reader.

i would like to see, within the first 4 sentences of this article, a concrete description of what the revolutions of 1848 actually was. not what theories are about what caused it. not grand abstract notions and words like 'bourgeois class' and 'proletarian'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.185.250.195 (talk • contribs) 14 Sept 2005.

Might I also suggest more information on the failure of the revolutions, more specifically the causes of the failure (especialy in Italy)

I would rewrite the article, start out by telling what the revoultions of 1848 are, and then going on to talk about the causes, and then going on to it's global effect. By the way the revolution did not start in Italy but in France in 1830. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Athatipelli (talk • contribs) 26 April 2006.

I feel the need to add that this article is clearly heavily influenced by Marxist thinking; it shows quite a strong bias. Russia was "missing" from the revolutions because it hadn't developed the "necessary prerequisites" for a revolution? This implies that a 'proletarian' revolution is inevitable, which is a clear bias toward Marxism.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.107.232.203 (talk • contribs) 22 November 2006.

Perhaps the inclusion that many of atheistic, free-thinking 48'ers who fought for the North in the Civil War were Communists and Statist Socialists should be made? Certainly not all, but many were certainly Communists (Joseph Weydemeyer) to Statist Socialist (Carl Shcurz). It seems disingenuous NOT to include such information. Merely calling them "freethinkers" is a bit distorting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.73.52.194 (talk • contribs) 12 September 2006.

-And of course that's a bad thing ..... Hmmmmm a bit POV aren't we!!! --Gramscis cousin 07:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

--I'd like to bring to everyone's attention the fact that this article is linked under the title "aftermath". It assumes the person has previously read the other articles on the revolution. I'm going to rename the title of the page from "Revolutions of 1848" to "Aftermath of the 1848 revolutions" so no one will be confused anymore.

[edit] Merge requests

Please vote on and discuss proposed merger of The Gathering Storm: Before the Revolutions of 1848 and Conclusions of the Revolutions of 1848 with this article, Revolutions of 1848.

[edit] Vote

  • Support - the titles of the articles are cumbersome and the subject matter is compatible with Revolutions of 1848. LuiKhuntek 08:32, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, assuming it doesn't make this article way too long (ssems it won't). Certainly "The gathering storm" needs to be renamed at the very least. That's a name for a book or essay, not an encycloepdia article. Why not just have an article called The Cause of a Rebel: The Early Life of James Dean. -R. fiend 08:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - It seems as though the merging of these articles would be extremely useful for research purposes.
  • Support - Jmabel | Talk 00:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - Pygmypony | Talk
  • Support - and then thoroughly edit the "Gathering" and "Conclusions" sections for appropriate encyclopedia style. Noel S McFerran 04:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • as i have recently finished learning about this in my european history class, i agree taht the two articls need to be combined to the article on the revolutions of 1848. I also agree the United States should be left out of this article.<unsigned>
  • Yes, merge them here.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - Cumulus Clouds 04:56, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Carte blanche - HJV 21:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC) And it's a yes in case someone didn't understand :) When is this merge going to happen, by the way? The vote's been up since February...
  • Support. Naturally. --PaxEquilibrium 21:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discus

Also, the discussion the United States in 1848 is weak and probably should be omitted from article.<unsigned>

Nah, it should be England. Every source for the Revolutions of 1848 refers to England and Russia, not Great Britain.<unsigned>

[edit] Ottoman Empire

The article was recently edited to add the Ottoman Empire to the list of areas where nothing revolutionary happened in 1848. I believe this is wrong, and that there were revolutionary movements at least in Moldavia and Wallachia (I can't speak for elsewhere). - Jmabel | Talk 03:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Wallacia and Moldavia were vassal states to the Ottoman Empire as well as Serbia at that time, so even though they nominally belonged to the Ottoman sphere of influence they have had their self rule and semi-independence. That means that their internal affairs would not classify as Ottoman affairs, as these countries emancipated from Istanbul years before. There have also been some minor rebellions in Serbia itself in 1848, although the overall climate in the state was pretty much peacefull (unlike in "Serbian" Vojvodina, Transylvania, Croatia etc where Serbs and Croats, alongside Romanians and others, fought against Hungarians). In 1848 these countries were semi-independent in all matters and cannot be fully associated with the Ottoman affairs, so when I say Ottoman Empire i imply to the European areas of the Empire that were subjugated directly to Istanbul (such as Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo etc). User:NeroN_BG

Fair enough, but we can word that more explicitly. - Jmabel | Talk 05:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belgium

Wasn't Belgium also spared revolution? It had a constitutional monarchy from its establishment in 1831. What about Greece and the Iberian Peninsula? john k 13:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What revolutions, exactly?

This article is confusing. It says that revolutions happened everywhere in Europe but in England, Russian, and the Ottoman Empire (which was in Europe?) and perhaps outside Europe as well (Brazil). And yet only one of these Revolutions (France) has an article about the revolution that supposed to have happened there in 1848. This article should specify exactly what revolutions happened in what countries in 1848, and link to appropriate pages; providing instead a list of countries where revolutions did *not* happen is a vague and sloppy method.

What social upheaval happened in what countries, *exactly*? Or as exactly as possible. My own knowledge of the happenings of this year is murky, and I'm disappointed that this article didn't help me improve my understanding very much.

Did you notice that this is the first of a series of six articles? Is there anything else you need besides what is covered in all of those? Rmhermen 17:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Except the obvious fact that the Ottoman Empire wasn't in Europe (well, a big part was in Europe but not all and of course it wasn't a European empire) i'm not sure if the rest is correct, i have to agree that the article is confusing. About Ottoman Empire, while most of the nations in it didn't revolt untill about 30 years after 1848, Greece did in 1821, and gained independence in 1828 if i'm not mistaken. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.168.63.56 (talk) 11:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] I removed this statement from the article, as it rather belongs to the discussion page

" This sucks!!During 1845-46, economic conditions worsened over the already-bad early 1840s. Causes are disputed, but there were crop failures (in an age where about 70% of working-class money went to food), and financial crises (notably in France) and resulting unemployment. Many left the farms for the cities, with resultant pressures. The working class was largely male, itinerant, uneducated, and sometimes violent. Corruption in high places in France reduced faith in the leaders; the textile sector of Germany was depressed in 1844-47." Kaarel 01:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

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