Talk:Resurrection

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[edit] Original content (Unsectioned)

Ideas for other things to include:

  • Other biblical examples of resurrection
    • Elijah raising the widow's son
    • Paul who raised the young man (Euteches??? his name starts with "E" anyway...) who was listening to Paul preach, fell asleep, fell out of the upper story window he had been sitting in and died.

Don't know whether to include this, but in Clement's letter to the Corinthians (2nd century?) he looks at "resurrection" in nature, such as night turning to day, and also mentions the story of the phoenix.

This article mentions discussion of the other resurrection stories and their influence on Christianity, but the links didn't make it here. I eventually want to offer a Christian response or explanation of those stories, but am trying to figure out both the response, and how to phrase it properly for wikipedia. --Wesley

"In the New Testament, Jesus is said to have raised several persons from death, including Lazarus and the young girl sometimes known as Tabitha."

Where or by whom is it stated that Jesus raised a girl known as Tabitha?

S.

Acts 9:40, I believe 72.9.29.11 20:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

From what I understand, Islam also teaches that there will a resurrection of the dead. Perhaps Islam and the resurrection could be included in the main article.

Not Jesus, but Peter:

Acts 9:36 (RSV) Now there was at Joppa a disciple named Tabitha, which means Dorcas. She was full of good works and acts of charity. Acts 9:37 (RSV) In those days she fell sick and died; and when they had washed her, they laid her in an upper room. Acts 9:38 (RSV) Since Lydda was near Joppa, the disciples, hearing that Peter was there, sent two men to him entreating him, "Please come to us without delay." Acts 9:39 (RSV) So Peter rose and went with them. And when he had come, they took him to the upper room. All the widows stood beside him weeping, and showing tunics and other garments which Dorcas made while she was with them. Acts 9:40 (RSV) But Peter put them all outside and knelt down and prayed; then turning to the body he said, "Tabitha, rise." And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up. Acts 9:41 (RSV) And he gave her his hand and lifted her up. Then calling the saints and widows he presented her alive.

-- Someone else 09:37 Nov 19, 2002 (UTC)

The paragraph starting "On a similar note, many stories..." seems entirely tangential to the subject of the article. This is an article about religious interpretations of the idea of resurrection, not about how Judeo-Christian beliefs and pagan myths may or may not have influenced each other. -- Alanyst 22:01, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

BTW, this is the paragraph removed, in case someone should wish to restore it (Alanyst):
On a similar note, many stories in the Torah, held sacred by both Jews and Christians, also are noted by historians to have close parallels to earlier pagan myths and stories. Liberal Jewish and Christian denominations agree that this is likely the case, and have theologies that do not depend on this finding. Traditional Christians and Orthodox Jews typically explain these similarities by appeal to their belief that all of the world's religions are corrupted versions of the true tradition that has been preserved more purely through a people chosen for this purpose, the Jews. And, Jewish history itself is held to be the workmanship of God for the correction of the nations. According to a traditional Christian interpretation, for example, the destruction of evil through the death and resurrection of the "seed of the woman" (cf. Genesis 3:15) is the oldest salvation myth in the world with parallels in many cultures, which they hold to have been literally fulfilled through the Virgin Mary, by the virginal conception, wilderness temptation by Satan, crucifixion, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus

[edit] Other stories? (request)

Is there any way someone could add a listing of other people who have supposedly resurrected from the dead? Outside of Judeo-Christian beliefs? I love coming to wikipedia and reading about other religions and this page would provide a good jumping point to other pages... I wish I could do so myself but am not an expert even in my own religion! JoeHenzi 12:03, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Duh, upon further inspection there are in fact others... can we make a better listing and seperate it out (like "Resurrection in Eastern Religions" or something?). Basically, to me this is stubby due to the fact it only talks about things people basically know like Jesus (and pals). Sakya Buddha could be a good start. (Sorry to request, if nothing is done I'll come back and see what I can do).JoeHenzi 12:08, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

see: A mystical view of the resurrection of the dead within Judaism see :Resurection of the dead is already happening. An insight into the inner meaning of the Resurrection of the dead based on the teachings of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson [Lubavitcher Rebbe http://www.torah.5u.com/rebbe.html] King [Moshiach http://www.torah.5u.com/moshiach.html] Shlit"a Ariel Sokolovsky 04:33, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Messy Piece Meal

I apologize for my ongoing messy additions to this fine article. I ain't no literary artist. I just keep coming up with new things; that I think are important. Please forgive me.Kazuba 19 Oct 2004

[edit] Raising from the dead and resurrection are different

People, I may be off base, but I have never thought the concept of raising someone from the dead and the resurrection as equivalent. I think the article does differentiate different types of resurrection, but I believe that is the problem. They are not different aspects of the same thing. One is eternal without the possibility of a future death. The other is a recovery of the same body with the path of death to be fully experienced. There is very little that is similar.

With such a drastic differnce I think this article does an injustice to the concept of the resurrection. It becomes weak milk, to the point of becoming water. Storm Rider 01:38, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The examples of resurrection we see in the NT are of both types (a) Christ. Though - since he is no longer phsyically present on earth he presumably did die in the sense we normally take death to be - arguable. Isn't "assumption" or "ascension" equivalent to death? (b) Lazarus.

I would suggest a discussion of resurrection should include both of these, plus perhaps the "resurrection" described in Revalations.

Exile 10:05, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Resurrection is not the same as coming back to life

I've just been reading NT Wright's "Resurrection of the Son of God" and he makes a number of points that may be useful here:

1. Resurrection is a very Jewish word, referring to being given a new bodily existence in a renewed world after the Day of Judgement. It does not refer to becoming like an angel, to a spiritual existence or just coming back to life for a short while.

2. For the moment, as far as Christians are concerned, Jesus is the only one who is resurrected. Everyone else is waiting for the day of final judgement.

3. Resurrection is thus about life after "life after death", and not just about "going to heaven". It is part of a totally renewed universe.

What I'm suggesting, I suppose, is clarifying the Judeo-christian meaning of resurrection and separating this from it's more vague meaning of "coming back to life". I understand the connection between the two, but "resurrection" is a much more precise term than that. --Pagaboy 00:04, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Biblical prophecy ?

Shouldn't this bit have something about prophecies of final judgement, everybody coming back to life, etc. ? I remember the apocalipse had quite a bit of those, no ?

[edit] These articles should NOT be merged

The resurection is a term usually used to describe Jesus's supposed resurection from the dead. The term the resurection of the dead used in the various creeds and in catholicism and orthodoxy is refering to the distinct concept that, while souls will live forever and go to heaven or hell after they die, they will be rejoined with their physical bodies at the end of the world.


-I Concur. In christian theology, the ressurection of christ was the means and forshadow of the general resurection of the dead, so they are related, not the same Thanatosimii 17:55, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Join them

I suggest that the articles should be joined. Alternatively, we should have "Resurrection of Jesus" and either "resurrection" or "resurrection of the dead". 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The articles should be together under "Resurrection," especially since there is so much overlap, with possible sub-headings: Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, Resurrection of the Dead, Resuscitation, all of which should be distinguished from the Hellenistic concept of immortality.


[edit] Section neutrality warning: Sathya Sai Baba did not re-surrect Walter Cowan

Please use the book by Mick Brown "The spiritual Tourist as a source" ch. "In the house of God". See also Sathya Sai Baba and talk:Sathya Sai Baba. I will try to correct it here later. Andries 18:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bodily Disappearances

Surely Mohammed's tomb is in Medina, not Mecca?

[edit] Moved "Modern Jewish" beliefs to talk page

Moved this content to Talk page:

Interestingly Judaism followed a similar path in reaction to the enlightenment and deism. Although Judaism had formally accepted the resurrection of the dead since the Mishnah (Sanh. 10.1) and in the liturgy (“Elohai Neshamah” and “Shemoneh ‘Esreh’”), the deistic school had affected some in that religion as well.[1] The well-known Jewish philosopher Moses Mendelssohn had essentially revived the Platonic-friendly belief in the immortality of the soul as the goal of man in his work Phaedon. The Jewish Encyclopedia concludes “Thenceforth Judaism emphasized the doctrine of immortality, in both its religious instruction and its liturgy, while the dogma of resurrection was gradually discarded and in the Reform rituals, eliminated from the prayer-books.”[2]

Note that all the sources here are at least a hundred years old. I challenge editors to come up with a (significant/influential) Jewish thinker within the last 30 years who uses this approach. --Shirahadasha 05:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved Judeo-Christian content to Talk page

Despite the Mesopotamian concept of resurrection, belief in personal resurrection (before the Common Era) was known among only one culture: the Hebrews.
From the time of its development from within Judaism during the second-Temple period to the incipient decades of Christianity, the meaning of the word acquired sharper edges and mutations, to include differentiating the common quality of the premortem body from the new glorious quality of the postmortem body (cf. 1 Cor. 15:35-54 and the Gospel accounts of Easter). It held to a permanent unification of physical body and soul.
Resurrection was used figuratively as a metaphor both for the national restoration of Israel (Ezek. 37) in Judaism, and for the regenerate life (the Apostle Paul) in Christianity.

This content is unsourced, and is very POV. It claims the concept was developed in the 2nd-temple period, although there are arguably prior biblical references and mixes Jewish and Christian beliefs whose compatibility(at least from some points of view) may be more subject to question.

Plus it's a waste of headers. Am separating Judaism and Christianity sections. --Shirahadasha 06:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro POV

Removed this language to Talk page:

The majority point of view is that Rebirth is a different but analogous religious concept; but there is a minority point of view among Jewish mystics, Gnostics, Sufis and Albigensians that resurrection is more or less identical to Rebirth.[citation needed]

What's the basis for claiming that there is a majority point of view about "rebirth"? This concept doesn't exist in anything like the Christian sense in most of Judaism or, for that matter, in many other religions. Intro to a Wikipedia article should not be pushing Christian concepts as if they had something to do with other religions or claiming the Christian POV has majority status in the world. Majority of what? --Shirahadasha 04:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for taking that sentence out of the intro. The information in this sentence is "Some Jewish mystics, Gnostics, Sufis, and Albigensians have interpreted the prophecied resurrection as rebirth, rather than as its original meaning of being brought back to life 'in the flesh.'" Unfortunately, I have no idea what's meant by "rebirth." Jonathan Tweet 05:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree I don't think the intro should discuss all these other concepts like "rebirth", "resussitation", etc. The intro should focus on what ressurrection is, not what it's not. --Shirahadasha 08:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Professor Kurt E. Koch

Professor Koch is a Christian theologian and missionary. His accounts represent a Christian missionary's view of other religion's practices, which is not necessarily their view and should not be presented as such. Clarifying account accordingly. Section also needs references. Best, --Shirahadasha 23:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The section Christian missionary accounts of other cultures, where the experience of Kurt E. Koch with the Eskimo shaman, Alualuk is narrated, has been tagged as “original research/ unverified claims”. Besides, at the end of the text of the section, a notice [citation needed] has been appended.
I have traced the probable source in the webpage At the threshold of Fiery Gehenna. In the webpage, there is also the citation of the book from which the information has been originally gathered (Kurt E. Koch, ‘’Demonology Past and Present’’, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1973, pp. 31-52.)
Consequently, after a day from the present post, I am going go modify the relevant section of the main article, eliminating the “original research/ unverified claims” tag, and providing the a.m. link and/or book as “source” of the information.

Miguel de Servet 16:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello. If you have sources for this section, go ahead and add them and remove the template. No need to discuss it with other users. These tags and their removal are just part of routine maintanence. Thanks for your help. Best, --Shirahadasha 02:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, as an FYI these sources appear to be self-published, see the reliable sources policy on this. I've added "according to a missionary account"; not sure if I have the ability to decide how reliable these sources are as long as the accounts are clearly labeled religious in nature. --Shirahadasha 19:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

One guy's account doesn't deserve its whole section. I've summarized it down to what is worth mentioning in an encyclopedia. Jonathan Tweet 15:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Original Research

A minority point of view is that this particular passage from Matthew is to be understood as a metaphorical description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives; the argument being that, had this occurred in the space-time reality, there would have been some mention of it in the historical record.

In conclusion the resurrection of Jesus and His ability to resurrect others is 'The' central belief in Christianity that validates Jesus as the Messiah and as God incarnate. In this respect it is the most debated and denied doctrine by non-Christian groups who seek to disprove the Christian faith. User:Kazuba 15 Dec 2006

[edit] reorg

I did some reorg. Subheaders prove to be helpful in organizing information that's been accumulated piecemeal.

This page has an in-depth treatment of the resurrection of the dead in Christianity. It's more substantial than the main page. I'd like to move this material to the main page: resurrection of the dead. Then summarize it here. It's important that the "resurrection of the dead" page be substantial. It's more specific than "resurrection" and so should be more detailed. Jonathan Tweet 15:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Moved. Jonathan Tweet 17:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Modern de-emphasis in Christianity

BrotherE,

on 8 March 2007 (06:44) you have removed completely (from position 3.2.1) the sub-section “Modern de-emphasis in Christianity” of the main article, with the following “motivation”:

  • “Removed NPOV material which presents one side of the debate about what happens between death and resurrection - such material belongs in the main article, not here”

As you have not moved the a.m. subsection anywhere lese, but, in fact, removed/erased it, unless you explain the motive of your drastic edit, I am going to restore the previous situation.

--Miguel de Servet 14:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

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