Talk:Restless legs syndrome

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[edit] Controversy

This needs to be rewritten to remove personal bias, if it is allowed to stay at all. For now, I have removed it. The only truth in it is that the RLS Foundation does receive funding from the drug companies. This implied that no one needed drug treatment prior to the drug companies entry into marketing an RLS drug. On the contrary, the people with severe RLS have either suffered greatly or taken whatever drugs they could get. The REST study, involving over 200,000 people in several continents, discovered a rate of RLS at about 10% - this is not any higher than waht they drug company is saying. It goes without saying that not all need treatment. But those who do should have some options. Until GSK stepped forward, not ONE medicine was FDA approved for this disease. And, for some people, this disease is literally disabling. I have no doubt the making money was at the heart of GSK's decision. That, however is at the heart of almost every business decision ever made. - Jan 10, 2006, VA

[edit] Comments

I've been hunting for a reference for the possible use of Trimipramine as a treatment for RLS but have yet to find one--and, in fact, it being a tricyclic antidepressant would suggest Trimipramine could in fact worsen RLS (certainly the literature I've found so far cautions against the use of tricyclics and even at times specifically against Trimipramine in RLS patients for that reason). From personal experience, I can state that Trimipramine did cause complete RLS remission and that a later switch to Doxepin triggered a recurrence of RLS... but that's original research, and I'm obviously not going to put that into the RLS article. I do remember reading an abstract in medical literature citing Trimipramine as a potential treatment option in some RLS cases, but so far have had no luck finding that same article again. If anyone comes across it or a related piece, it would make sense to add Trimipramine/Surmontil to the "other medicinal approaches" section. Exerda 21:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

the second portion is undoubtedly an advertisement of some sort. needs to be corrected. - AC

CORRECT - GSK have been very clever in their 'astroturfing', in other words pretending to be writing from a 'grassroots' perspective. I am a final year medical student and have done research into these areas, sorry I can't write this up properly (no time) but I can point any interested people in the right direction... http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030170 for an article on this precise disease from a slightly sceptical viewpoint. And - www.pmcpa.org/completedcases, reference No 1801/2/06 for the the case against the manufacturer of the main drug of choice GlaxoSmithKline, in which they were found guilty (also in August 2006 British Medical Journal). Try PLOS Medicine / Selling Sickness by Moynihan / nofreelunch.org if you're interested in this subject. No doubt this disease does exist, but in a far greater proportion of the population than the drug company wants to make out. Any support group that believes the drug company are trying to benefit mankind should simply read the statements they release to the stockmarket - see where their priorities lie?

Looks like there is a correlation between this disease and iron "Doctors suspecting RLS often test for iron levels in the blood, because research suggests low brain levels of iron may be associated with the condition." Wonder whether there is anybody around with a medical knowledge to comment about this treatment " I was given two options. The first -- a nightly episode of catatonia courtesy of a serious opiate, such as OxyContin. My mind quickly weighed this one. Opiates: Nice. Lifelong mental and physical addiction: Not so nice.

The second alternative was a Parkinson's drug, based on newer research suggesting that RLS, like Parkinson's disease, is tied to insufficient levels of dopamine. The normal fluctuation in these levels -- they're higher in the daytime and lower at night -- explains why RLS symptoms manifest at night. Dopamine, a neurotransmitter that relays messages from neurons to brain cells involved in the control of movement, is the link between the body's sensory and motor systems." Other treatments that may work "opiates, anticonvulsants and, in some cases, iron supplements" Now this looks funny "Possible underlying causes of RLS as spinal cord disorders, lumbar or cervical injuries and kidney failure" At first, i thought she was playing pank on me when she suggested kidney failure as a possible cause, but then i remembered kidney plays a part in elements regulation. Any, the whole article is here, be warned though, it is really long [1]

just a thought This article seems unusually informal for the wiki, hmm. - 20 June 2005

just a thought This can't be taken seriously. I can't believe people are complaining about this "syndrome." --Time

[edit] Is there advertising in thar?

  • Some patients have reported satisfactory relief using the medication Mirapex.

This sentence, the slogan It's not just you, and the "informal" tone complained about above, coupled with the fact that a patented drug that treats this symptom has recently turned up on national TV using this slogan, makes me wonder whether this is an ad.

Is there any medical scepticism about the existence, or worthiness of treatment with drugs, of this alleged syndrome? I will admit, this was my reaction to the ads, although I forget whose ads they were. Smerdis of Tlön 7 July 2005 18:41 (UTC)

I believe it was Bill Maher. He said something like "Restless Leg Syndrome, it's basically your body telling you to get out of your easy chairs and your SUVs and use your legs." --Michael Larson
I'm sure it's easy to doubt this problem's existence when you yourself do not have it. Try to have an open mind, okay? For me, this incredibly uncomfortable sensation comes at night and it practically forces the muscles my legs to tense up or even move. It is hard to describe to anyone who hasn't felt it, but I assure it's real. It's not painful, but the sensation will wake me up and keep me up for a random amount of time until some simple exercises like walking or light lifting make it go away. Imagine getting woken up in the middle of the night a few times a week and having to fully get up and exercise just to get some peace. It's not very fun, and it can become exhausting. I agree that the drug commercials seem silly, even for someone who has this problem from time to time, but then all drug commercials seem stupid. My point is please don't criticize an article's worthiness on Wikipedia just because you haven't experienced the subject firsthand. As odd as RLS may sound, it's very real and a problem for many. Sprngpilot
On a related tack, GSK used a patients support website to market Ropinirole for restless legs syndrome and has had their wrists slapped.Dyer O (2006). "GSK breached marketing code". Brit Med J 333 (7564): 368.  The ruling is at [www.pmcpa.org/completedcases] reference number 1801/2/06.--Gak 14:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No sources Cited for this comment

It is possible that it may be made worse by diet, specifically the consumption of saturated fats, such as found in cheese, biscuits (cookies), butter, beef, etc. Try avoiding such fats for a week or two and see if the condition improves.

(Posted by an anonymous user (84.67.44.50). I've removed it.) - JRice 02:57, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

I wrote that. It is based on personal experience and seems to be true for me. A sufferer may find that a simple modification of their diet reduces their discomfort, but you have removed it. Perhaps you have your own agenda and would prefer people to use patented drugs?

But you can't just add shoddy medical advice because it "seemed" to work for you. You need to provide some studies or research into it or something. On a related note, I thought dehydration and bad circulation were points to note. Or maybe I am getting mixed up with leg cramps.. are cramps a symptom of RLS? I thought so but it doesn't seem to be mentioned.

Wikipedia articles are not the place for "discussion-board-like" informal opinions and speculation. Encyclopedic style writing with sources stemming from published studies and the like should make up the bulk of the article. Subjective stuff like "xxxx this diet change works for me, try avoiding..." simply doesn't belong here, as good-intentioned as you might be. Visit your local RLS message board for that type of thing. =) --A6Patch 05:10, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, there's already research that seems to indicate this. RLS occurs less often in countries with lower saturated fat consumptions. It's already in the article. I don't think anything else needs to actually be added to what's already there, but there is research going on right now trying to make that exact connection. *botches a shooting star press* -- DomColosi 04:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] German image

The German article has a nice (looking) image if anyone can translate it. gren グレン 17:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vanadalism

Removed "RLS does not actually exist. It is a pshychological disorder that was made up to make people feel better about themselves. If you have these symptaoms, you probalbly are crazy and shouldn't make things up to get attention. Get over your problems and stop complaining." It looks like RadioTalk, famous for removing vandalism, put this in? I'm sure I'm reading that wrong. I do very few edits.--Knapster2005 15:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. It was 209.92.76.43 that did the vandalism.

[edit] Format of article

I found this article to be written in a very informal style and also to be very lacking in citations. While there were plenty of external links given, the vast majority of the "facts" presented were lacking in a specific citation to support them. Could someone with considerable knowledge in the area (possibly the person who originally wrote the article) please provide adequate citations and edit the article with a more formal register.

[edit] Bar of soap?

"An effective, though not proven, method for relieving symptoms during sleep is to place a common bar of soap under the sheet at the foot of the bed.[citation needed]"

I really can't even begin to comprehend how this could be considered an effective treatment? Given that there are no citations provided I move that we should remove this statement.

I agree. I have removed it. The reference quoted is for leg cramp anyway, which is an unrelated condition. --Gak 06:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South African train drivers

This sounds like a habitual action carried over into sleep. I cannot see how this is relevant to RLS. I move to remove it. --Gak 06:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ekbom's Syndrome vs Wittmaack-Ekbom's syndrome

I find the words right at the start of the article "(RLS, or Wittmaack-Ekbom's syndrome, which is not to be confused with Ekbom's syndrome)" confusing. In more cases than not, Ekbom's Syndrome is used to refer to RLS. In this case, diverting readers looking for RLS off to a page on "Delusional parasitosis" will cause a lot of confusion. I suggest that the discussion of these other historic medical names for RLS is removed from this very prominent position. Later, in the history section, this is covered in the sentence "The Restless legs syndrome is also known as the Ekbom syndrome, the Wittmaack-Ekbom syndrome, or anxietas tibialis.". (this is my first contribution to wikipedia, please forgive me if my procedure or etiquette are poor)

Thank you for pointing that out. I have edited it to make the relationship clearer, but if you feel it remains confusing, be bold. And welcome to Wikipedia. --Arcadian 03:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
yes, that's an improvement, thanks.--Grippers 00:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Snopes/soap removed

I removed the link to the snopes page regarding soap as a cure. This refers to leg cramps, which is a different problem. Xzqx 20:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Actually, it IS a real disease

Those commenters who believe this is not a real disease and those who suffer are "making it up", please see some of the external links, including rls.org. It can be quite a debilitating disease. It sounds silly, but millions of people are not making up these symptoms or complaining about nothing. Xzqx 20:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


Good for keeping up to date with newresearch in RLS : *Restless Legs Syndrome - new research, news reports, new books

[edit] Blood circulation and/or smoking related?

I was just wondering if there is formidable evidence to suggest that RLS is related to blood circulation? The reason I bring this up is because I often experience RLS; almost every night. I do smoke, and have noticed that if I have a cigarette within approximately an hour before bed, I experience virtually no RLS. I'm not suggesting that smoking is good or anything, but I wonder if it draws a relation to blood circulation, as smoking would reduce the circulation. Stovetopcookies 01:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)



== Requip? ==

My wife used to often complain of this tingling sensation that would not allow her to go right to sleep. I noticed it happen since we moved in together, she would do something comparable to hand clapping, but with her feet, somehow the arch of each foot meeting and making a strong thumping sound. She would say that it felt really good, but to me it sounded like it was painfull, I tried it, and it is painfull. Appears that it brings her some comfort. We have been living in the United States for almost 4 years, and i just learned, thanks to a TV comercial, that it may be an actual condition (RLS), a tingling, and very bothersome feeling from the knees down and concentarting mostly, and most of the times, on the area of the calves and feet. This happens about 3 or 4 times a month, and to the best of my knowledge and memory, that medical condition is what my wife has.

The TV comercial I mention is the one for Requip. I have tried to find a way to get this resolved for my wife via a pill, capsule, pastille, or any other medical route, but I would not like for her to be taking stuff that has all these side effects. So far, I massage her feet and legs for about 3 to 5 minutes each, whenever it happens, and that does it just fine, next thing I know she is sleeping like a baby and i hear nothing more of it for the rest of the night.

We come from a country in Latin America, and so close to the equator, that some medical conditions known in more developed countries are not even recorded as general public awarenesses, for example the Flu, yes the Flu!

So when my wife would start complaining about the discomfort we never thought there would be a name for it (if that is what she has). We do not give it much attention, though. We were planning on going to an acupuncturist speciallist (if that is the way to type it), but we decided it is not that big of an issue. My wife has changed her diet from a lot of red meat to poultry and fish, as well as vegetables, since the last couple of years, she as always been very slim and she hardly gains any weight, fast metabolism, she works standing up most of the time, and exercises quite often, she does have some circulatory issues, since she has some spider veins on her heels. She takes a multivitamin, Co-Q10, Gotu-Kola pills, fish oil, and protein shakes. Before this change in her diet this discomfort would appear 2 or 3 times a week.

[edit] The causes ar clear and well-known!

"No one knows the exact cause of RLS at present."?? WTF? The causes are well known and even denoted in the same section: Extreme concentrates of short chain carbohydrates. Like sugar, white flour, white rice and potato extracts. M. O. Bruker has done studies for over 50 years with more than 30000 (!) patients, and he could prove that many many health problems actually stem from those extreme concentrates of - actually conserves of purified short chain carbohydrates. The problem is that the whole equilibrium of vital substances gets out of kilter.

The problem is that most poeple think that those substances are only contained in those "white" products. But face it: Sweets, soft drinks, non wholemeal bread (no matter what color or how many grains), cake (wich - if made of white flour and/or sugar - always is a conserve), *every* kind of sugar (no matter what color, if saccharose, fructose, maltit, or how ever they call it) that has such a high level of those carbohydrates, and many, many other products... they all contain loads of those carbohydrates. And because poeple won't or can't avoid them, ther can not completely cure themselves. If you can speak german, i woul recommand that you read "Zucken, Zucker" from Dr. med. M. O. Bruker.

Additionally - to relate it to RLS - you just have to look at the more recent findings that show that high concentrations of bad carbohydrates are the cause by proving that removing them can heal the disease.

But who wants to care? If you look at all those shiny ads for stuff that we don't need, and that we buy just to make some companies richer, because we believe that "dextro energen" actually is healthy, or that mars and kellogg's frosties give us power? Or that wonderbread is actually bread (it is not! it's a conserve of nearly pure sugar) and UHT-milk actually has anything to do with real milk (it has NOT! It's a mix of chemically modified proteines with water!)?

Ok, just decide for youself. But stop eating crap, or stop complaining. You can't have both. Or call it a genetical disease to become sick of a bag of sugar in your venes... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.100.46.221 (talk) 14:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Source it or delete it

The sourcing on this entry is terrible. There is very little that specifically cites a reliable source, such as a medical journal, a US or UK government web site, an academic medical center, a reliable on-line textbook, or any source. There's just a long list of general citations at the bottom (and some of them seem to be advertising, or other sources like chat rooms that aren't allowed in Wikipedia). It's mostly people giving their own personal opinions, which also isn't allowed in Wikipedia.

I read an article in the New England Journal of Medicine on restless leg syndrome recently, and I would call that a good source. There was also an article in PLOS arguing that the pharmaceutical companies took a rare disease and exaggerated it into a common complaint to promote their new drug. I'd also like to get some alternative views -- but under Wikipedia rules, editors can't just write, "I tried it and it worked for me."

I think we should start deleting everything that is unsourced. Does everyone agree? Does anyone object? Where's that medical student? Nbauman 01:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is alcohol a factor?

Some alcoholics i've seen move their feet sometimes violently when they are sleeping. Only when they're drunk though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.59.5.156 (talk) 16:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] As a symptom of other conditions

Should there be additional discussion of conditions that include these symptoms? For example, it is well known that opiate withdrawal syndrome can produce "jimmy legs". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.75.170.119 (talk) 03:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

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