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Contents 1 Comments 1.1 Comment 1.2 link 1.3 Turkish name 1.4 Title restored 1.4.1 Translation word by word 1.5 Cool down 1.6 Flag 1.7 Flag and Name

[edit] Comments

[edit] Comment

There is an article as "Gumuljine Republic". as you see in new article "Turkish Republic of Western Thrace", I transferred all content from "Gumuljine Republic" article. (categries, stubs etc. all of them). "Gumuljine Republic" is a dummy/artificial name. A republic wlth this name never took a palce in history. I will take back this merging/discuss remark back with assuming that all of you will ve judicious. Regards Mustafa Akalp 17:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] link

the second link cited in the article under external links doesn't work.. Baristarim 02:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish name

Turkish name of the state should be Garbi Trakya Mustakil Hukumeti, It was not called as a republic.--Hattusili 10:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title restored

Mustafa, please understand that the original name of this article in Wikipedia was Republic of Gumuljina. Then you create your POV-titled fork Turkish Republic of Western Thrace (which only gets one Google hit, some web forum [1]). When the article was restored to its original location, you reverted that calling it "Vandal revert" [2]. This is not how articles are renamed; if you want to rename the article, cite your sources first.--Tekleni 10:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Before I get involved here, can somebody give me a translation of "müstakil" in "müstakil hükümeti"? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

müstakil means 'own'. --Xsara 11:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation word by word

• "Garbi Trakya Müstakil Hükümeti"; Ottoman language.

Garbi, Garp->Gar(b)-i; Batı-Turkish, Belong to West/Western-English"" (sorry for first translation)
Trakya; Trakya-Turkish, Thrace-English""
Müstakil; Bağımsız-Turkish, Independent-English""
Hükümet-i; Devlet-Turkish, Government/State-English""

Regards Mustafa Akalp 11:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the translation. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have any idea how it would have been written in the original Ottoman-Arabic script (the script that was used when the entity actually existed)? I guess it would have been something like گرب تراقيا مستقيل هىقىمىت, but perhaps someone actually in Turkey could find out for sure.--Tekleni 14:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, are we sure that in the Ottoman version it's Garbi and not Garbı? What about vowel harmony?--Tekleni 14:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

And how come it's not just Batı Trakya Bağımsız Devleti in modern Turkish?--Tekleni 14:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps because the pattern "[point-of-the-compass]+[geographical-unit]+Turk+Cumhuriyeti" just sounds generally nicer? :-P Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Find your friends at Category:User osm :-) But I think your version doesn't look too right. The "ü"s in "hukumet"/"hükümet" would have been waws, for one thing. And I think vowel harmony didn't apply that strictly in Ottoman, because of the many Persian/Arab loan morphological patterns. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm Greek - a pronounce all "ü"s like all Greeks do ;-) --Tekleni 14:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cool down

Okay guys, before everybody gets even more upset, can we agree on the following please:

• The history merger between the two articles, as such, was technically necessary. There was no need for discussion about that in itself, simple admin housekeeping.
• Now that the article is properly united in one place, you are all free and at leasure to decide on what the final title is going to be. Please take it easy, leave the status quo as is for the moment, and discuss where you want it.
• No matter under which title it ends up, we will of course have all the alternative appelations mentioned and there will be redirects from them, so that everybody will be able to find it easily from their preferred name.
• I'd like to see something more than google counts - can somebody quote what the actual English-speaking academic literature calls it? Anybody got a few books about the Balkan wars? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

Here is a source for the flag (of the Republic of Gumuljina as they call it) [3].--Tekleni 14:35, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flag and Name

Flag of Turkish Republic of Western Thrace Here is the source for flag and name of the state.It is obviously determined as;
Turkish; Tarihteki ilk Türk cumhuriyeti olan Batı Trakya Türk Cumhuriyeti bayrağı.
English; The flag of Turkish Republic of Western Thrace which is the first Turkish republic in the history. Gümülcine/Gumuljine is a city only(Capital city of state). This is another example of nationalist Greek approach to the events. By the rename a state (by its capital city's name), somebody tries to degrade the importance of a historical state. What is the next step?

Regards. Mustafa Akalp 17:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

We want to know what the most common name in English is, not Turkish, see WP:NAME. Useful source though, this sources the Turkish name in the intro (and refutes my modern Turkish suggestion above).--Tekleni 17:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, look who's talking about renaming places: Konstantinopolis > İstanbul.--Tekleni 17:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

In English this state is called "Provisional Government of Western Thrace" (see: Richard C. Hall, Balkan Wars 1912-1913: Prelude to the First World War, Routledge, October 2000, page 126)--Hattusili 05:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you know other international literature that talks in detail about this republic? It is so difficult to find information about it. However thanks for the tip about Richard C. Hall. I will buy it. I hope he talks in detail about this republic.

Dr. Tahir Tamer Kumkale tells in [4] that the name of the republic was "Provisional Government of Western Thrace" (Garbi Trakya Hükumeti Muvakkatesi) from 1. September 1913 until 12. September 1913. On 12. September they changed the name to "Independent Government of Western Thrace" (Garbi Trakya Müstakil Hükumeti) --Moorudd 08:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, great, this is getting interesting. Weird syntax too. Is this a Persian "izafet" construction between "Hükümet-i Muvakkate", and then outside that a Turkish possessive construction "Trakya [Hükümet-i Muvakkate]si" ? Wow. :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Ottoman language was a mix of Turkish,Persian and Arabic(in words, and in grammar). Here is persian grammatic is used. ie: Pen of Mustafa-> Kalem-î Mustafa. In modern Turkish order is opposite; Mustafa(nın) Kalem(i).
Here, î(Persian) & i(Turkish) give the same meaning : belong to. Due to the place of main word in sentence. The same word in different order; Give me (the/this/that) pen ; Kalem(i) ver. Here i, has a different meaning.Used for definition of the object.

Bir şey değil/ "For nothing"(No need thanks) _{Mustafa Akalp}^{(T) (C)} 11:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's just what I meant. The "-i" in "Hükumeti" must be the Persian one, the "-si" in "Muvakkatesi" the Turkish one. Great mix. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)