Talk:Republic of China presidential election, 2004

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Contents

[edit] Article title

Should the title be capitalized? U.S. presidential election, 2004 is not. --Jiang 10:36, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

moved. --Jiang 23:51, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Updates needed

Things need to be updated (verb tenses etc.) if the mobilizations near February 28 have actually happened. -- Kaihsu 17:21, 2004 Feb 28 (UTC)

It did: [1]. Up to the task? --Jiang

[edit] Sources of information

What is the source of the "Heart Connecting to Hearts" and torch relay? Google shows up nothing in English. --Jiang 07:27, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

TVBS, United Daily News, and China Times (all Chinese). I don't know what the official translation is of Hearts connecting to Hearts. The torch relay became redone as "Women running first" Roadrunner 17:27, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
And for that matter, what is the source of "One other interesting statistic is that people who have Internet accounts are more likely to support Pan-Blue, but people without Internet accounts are more likely to support Pan-Green."?

--Lowellian 20:29, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)

United Daily News. You won't find it now (even in the archives) because Taiwan is in poll blackout, but it should be easy to get a link to it after the election Roadrunner 17:27, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of coverage in American media

One comment. I'm absolutely amazed at the lack of English language coverage over the elections. With the exception of some Taiwanese English language papers, the coverage by the New York Times, CNN, BBC, Time, Newsweek, and the Washington Post has been dreadful.

This wikipedia page actually is probably much better source of news than any of the above. Roadrunner 17:35, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Maybe they'll take a better notice after the results come in. --Menchi 03:31, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Voting figures

Does anyone know where the anonymous user 61.30.127.3 is getting his voting figures from? They are in advance of those at the government election website, which is spoiling my fun. Adam 11:05, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The figures provided on TV are also in the 6 million range, so I think the website is being updated slower. Just turn to your local Chinese/international television channel. --Jiang 11:10, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Rolls eyes at assumption that everyone in the world has Chinese television. Adam 11:12, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

poor you! --Jiang

By the way, is Lien Chan Mr Lien or Mr Chan? Adam 11:13, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It's Mr. Lien, but since he has a Ph.D., it should be Dr. Lien. --

Jiang

Quite so. Dr Adam 11:27, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

To answer Adam's question, yes, I am in fact getting my information off a local Chinese channel (TVBS to be exact). --61.30.127.3 13:31, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Split referendum article

I think the referendum should be put in another article, ROC referendum, 2004. Objections? --Jiang 11:32, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I assume there has already been a long argument about the use of "ROC" in article headings? I think it should be either "Taiwan" or "Republic of China." Who knows what ROC stands for (I mean apart from Jiang, who knows everything)?Adam 11:36, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It's for the sake of consistency. Given that the presidential election articles are under the ROC headings, there is no reason to do anything different for the referendum. The alternative names will redirect there.--Jiang 11:45, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

That section is getting quite long, and should be made a separate article. --Menchi 11:44, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Presidential terms

Could I suggest that The Election for the 11th-term President and Vice-President of the Republic of China is a very mystifying formulation for anyone not familiar with Chinese history (that is, just about everyone)? What does "11th term President" mean? Is President Chen running for his 11th term? I would guess it means this is the 11th presidential election in the history of the Republic of China - since the 1911 revolution? since the 1947 constitution? since the move to Taiwan? since the establishment of democracy? If this is thought to be important, it should be explained somewhere in the opening paragraph. It is not important it should be deleted. Also the word Taiwan needs to appear in the opening paragraph, since this is what the English-speaking world calls the country. Adam 13:09, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It's since the 1947 constitution. CKS serve terms 1-5 (Yen finished the 5th); CCK served terms 6-7, Lee served terms 8-9, and Chen is serving term 10.--Jiang

[edit] Table of results

The names used are those given by the CEC. I suppose that's irrelevant since the real ballot was in Chinese anyways. "Kuomintang" is the common English name of the party. That's what the government calls it and what the party calls itself. The number on the ballot is relevant here. If the table's too wide, then there's something wrong with your browser. When I reduce my browser to half its width, the table contracts on its own. It's not too wide.--Jiang

Nationalist Party is also widely used and is in principle preferable in an English encyclopaedia. (Anyway surely it should be Guomindang?) If the ballot order is relevant this should be explained in the text. If the table is too wide for me it will be for other people as well. It's not hard to make it fit, I just don't know how. Adam 09:20, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The ballot number should be a self explanatory piece of information. No explanation is necessary. Why Guomindang? The point is to use the common spelling. Kuomintang is english like tsunami.

The HTML code has the width set it 100%. It should span the full screen of any browser and the text wraps on its own if the screen is not as wide. The "other people" are too few and insignificant for us to care. The 0.25% election figure is mentioned nowhere else in the article and should not be deleted.--Jiang 10:06, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Just as I was starting to like you again Jiang, you reveal yourself to be the same unpleasant arrogant little shit I thought you were before. I have made a resolution not to get into fights with people like you so I am taking the election page off my watchlist. You can do as you please. Don't bother replying to this. Adam 10:16, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Cool down people. Not sure what that resolution thing is about (depending on the operating system), but the Kuomintang is now a common replacement of what's once called "The Chinese Nationalist League" (as I saw in a b/w photo). Think of the ink saved.. --Menchi 10:33, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] No recount is conducted yet

Anyway Chen's re-election is confirmed officially by the Election Commission.

[edit] Coloring of election results table

Here's the history of the coloring of the election results table:

Pan-Green Coalition Pan-Blue Coalition
(1) last DDFFDD DDDDFF
(2) last 66FF66 66CCFF
(3) last CCFF99 CCFFCC

The original color scheme was (1). User:Jiang changed the scheme to (2) {last}. User:Lowellian changed the scheme back to (1) {last}, saying that (2) was too bright and clashing and that it was hard to read the blue links on the brighter blue background. User:Jiang then changed the scheme to (3) {last}, saying that the colors of (1) blended in too much with the gray. User:Acegikmo1 then changed the scheme back to (2) {last}, saying that (3) made no sense because the Pan-Blue Coalition should have a blue color. User:Lowellian then changed the scheme back to (1), but changed the gray into white to avoid the gray blending in with the other colors.

white bordering is unnacceptable becuase the table has no gridlines. i will change it to the original table with no colors. DDDDFF looks gray and DDFFDD looks light blue. that's horrible, imo. --Jiang 00:41, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
we should make this conistent with the 1996 and 2000 elections. --Jiang 00:45, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I agree that the colors should be consistent with pages about past elections. However, the colors used on the ROC presidential election, 1996 and ROC presidential election, 2000 are different. I propose that we use the colors on the 1996 election page on all three pages.
Acegikmo1 03:33, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
1 and 3 are good. 2 is flashy and hard-to-read. --Menchi 01:13, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] I am a taiwanese

I am a taiwanese and i find many false facts about the election of taiwan here. mr. lien is not pro-china which is our enemy.but they want to force us to accept ONE CHINA(and "according to them" one china is prc) or they won't negotiate with us at all,and they also harm us by all means like pressuring many taiwanese bussinessmen having investment there and thus trying to force our government to yield. so Mr.lien's decision is a compromised one for economical concerns. In fact, Tatwan,THIS LAND, is now already an independent country BECAUSE she has her own land,citizen and her own authority. It dosn't matter she is not an UN member now because even switzerland have joined UN recently. I guarantee that most taiwanese would totally agree to change the current name "ROC" to "taiwan" or "formosa" if there were no threat of war from the enemy. they just continually try to confuse everyone with their propaganda "one china" and hope that there would be no aids if one day they attack us by force.but I want to say the truth is unchagable that both sides are independent countries and surely they are different nations. -- Anonymous

I totally agree with you. Taiwan is a very different country with China--Jerrypp772000 03:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time tells the truth

Right now the text just meet the informations declared by most official sources. --Mea Culpa 08:36, 2004 Apr 28 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics section clarification?

First of all, thanks for a well-written article that explains the whole election quite fairly. I have just one question: In the section "Demographic trends and public opinion", the article says:

"Since Taiwan does not provide absentee ballots, large numbers of citizens travelled to vote from North America and Mainland China, with typical estimates indicating that about 20,000 people travelled from North America and between 100,000 and 150,000 people travelled from Mainland China."

I am under the impression that people in China are not legally allowed to travel to Taiwan (under China's own regulation, I think). So you must mean that these 100,000-150,000 people from Mainlaid China are Taiwanese businessmen who are currently living in China, correct? This could be a source of confusion. -- Liang people in China are not legally allowed to travel to Taiwan because that's taiwan's regulation. And it is another strong and direct proof that they are different nations.

They are businessmen who traveled through Hong Kong, usually. I have removed the word "apparent" in front of the term "assassination" in the section on Lien Chan's remarks, as there is no evidence that this was anything other than a real assassination, despite the claims of the Blues. -- MTurton

[edit] Spelling of Vice-President

Is the way Vice President is spelt in the first sentence doesn't look correct. I think it would more likely be Vice-President. Can someone check on that?

"Vice President" (with no dash) seems to be the most common rendering of the word. Acegikmo1 21:53, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
"vice-president" is the form referenced in style guides.

[edit] What's with all the question marks in a row in the 2nd paragraph?

Subject says it all.. --Rebroad 10:38, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't see any. Make sure your computer can read unicode because there's a block of chinese charcters after the bolded textJiang
Hi Jiang. Thanks for you reply. This Chinese text will fail to display correctly on most non-Chinese web browser software, and therefore I would recommend it be removed from the English version of this article as most people will not realise that it is suppose to display Chinese letters only on certain versions of web browser software that have been specifically configured to display Chinese. --Rebroad 11:37, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Having non-Roman scripts encoded in unicode is the standard in hundreds, if not thousands, of pages here. Unicode should display on most browsers, unlike Big5 of GB which require special software to be installed. Please ask Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) for input from someone more versed in technical issues. From my knowledge, the script should display with no extra software installed. --Jiang 12:09, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Jiang is correct. I've checked the page with standard English-versions of both IE and Opera, and neither browser has any problem displaying the characters. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 17:51, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Request for references

Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when a few references have been added to the article. - Taxman 18:26, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

When I edited this article back in early 2004, I added in-line links to news articles I used as references, but I think these were later removed. A look into some of the page history can reveal some references.--Jiang 04:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination, fail

GA status requires citation of sources. There is not one single reference or footnote in this article. There are also external link jumps in the text, which are highly frowned upon. Work on the citations and formatting, and then resubmit. Rlevse 01:45, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

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