Talk:Religious conversion and terrorism
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[edit] Does this make sense as an entry?
This entry seems like an excuse to publicize the study mentioned in it. Does it really warrant an entry of its own? Can this page be merged with another one? Any ideas?PelleSmith 00:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
- No it doesn't. Feel free to PROD it for that very reason. The Behnam 00:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
- This most certianly is worthwile content, and a good article can be written on this topic. There are many people who convert to Islam and then become terrorists.--Sefringle 06:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- Really? "Religious conversion and terrorism"? The whole point of PRODing the entry was to suggest that the content be merged, and/or perhaps that the entry be renamed, or deleted if this can't be done. Can you justify an entry called "religious conversion and terrorism"? Your claim is that there are people who convert to Islam and then become terrorists. Lets accept that this may be true, that does not mean that "religious conversion" (in general as the entry name would have it) and terrorism is notable or common enough to justify an entry. Are you saying that you want to save the content or that you want to save the page as it is? Please, in good faith, justify the existence of this entry (not just the particular information you wish to keep), and/or work towards implementing it usefully as one should when one de-PRODs an entry. Thanks.PelleSmith 16:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- Religious conversion and terrorism is a very notable concept. All the material is sourced and reliable, and recognized by reliable sources. I can find many more sources to prove reliability too, besides the ones that are already here. Any notable person who converted to another religion and then became a terrorist proves the notability of the subject, and the fact that many people do so further proves its notability. I can find nothing in the Wikipedia:Deletion policy that says this article should be deleted. Would you mind telling me which policy of wikipedia this article violates. If it should be merged, see WP:MM. If you want to move it, see WP:RM. But wanting it merged or moved is not to be done through deletion process.--Sefringle 02:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- In that case prove that it is notable as listed--"religious conversion and terrorism". The reason why it is not a notable topic is because in its generalizable form (as in the title of the entry) it is total and utter nonsense. There is no causal connection between "conversion" to a religion and terrorism, nor has there ever been a scientific study that has proved any such connection. What the entry highlights is ONE study which shows that a small number of people (35) from the entire continent of Europe and the United States of America have engaged in terrorist activity after converting to Islam. This study does not generalize about "religion" or "religious conversion" at all. At the bare minimum the entry name is completely misleading. Also you know very well that articles do not have to violate any Wikipedia policies to be deleted, and that the PROD and AfD processes are not here just to vote on deleting or keeping an entry, but to keep the standards of Wikipedia and its individual entries in check. This particular entry simply reports the findings of one study (along with some unreferenced musings by a French scholar). As such the findings of this study, and the musings of the French scholar are misrepresented in the entry's title, which is why I believe it should 1) be deleted 2) be renamed or 3) be merged. I have explained quite clearly why I PRODed it and now please either work on fixing it by way of editing or at least by proving how its current form is notable (as the de-PRODing guidelines suggest to good faith editors like yourself) or explain why you object when it gets an AfD. Thanks and best.PelleSmith 03:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- NOTE: I think it should be deleted. My suggestion of merge, or move is for those who feel the content is informative. Cheers.PelleSmith 03:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- In that case prove that it is notable as listed--"religious conversion and terrorism". The reason why it is not a notable topic is because in its generalizable form (as in the title of the entry) it is total and utter nonsense. There is no causal connection between "conversion" to a religion and terrorism, nor has there ever been a scientific study that has proved any such connection. What the entry highlights is ONE study which shows that a small number of people (35) from the entire continent of Europe and the United States of America have engaged in terrorist activity after converting to Islam. This study does not generalize about "religion" or "religious conversion" at all. At the bare minimum the entry name is completely misleading. Also you know very well that articles do not have to violate any Wikipedia policies to be deleted, and that the PROD and AfD processes are not here just to vote on deleting or keeping an entry, but to keep the standards of Wikipedia and its individual entries in check. This particular entry simply reports the findings of one study (along with some unreferenced musings by a French scholar). As such the findings of this study, and the musings of the French scholar are misrepresented in the entry's title, which is why I believe it should 1) be deleted 2) be renamed or 3) be merged. I have explained quite clearly why I PRODed it and now please either work on fixing it by way of editing or at least by proving how its current form is notable (as the de-PRODing guidelines suggest to good faith editors like yourself) or explain why you object when it gets an AfD. Thanks and best.PelleSmith 03:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- Religious conversion and terrorism is a very notable concept. All the material is sourced and reliable, and recognized by reliable sources. I can find many more sources to prove reliability too, besides the ones that are already here. Any notable person who converted to another religion and then became a terrorist proves the notability of the subject, and the fact that many people do so further proves its notability. I can find nothing in the Wikipedia:Deletion policy that says this article should be deleted. Would you mind telling me which policy of wikipedia this article violates. If it should be merged, see WP:MM. If you want to move it, see WP:RM. But wanting it merged or moved is not to be done through deletion process.--Sefringle 02:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- Really? "Religious conversion and terrorism"? The whole point of PRODing the entry was to suggest that the content be merged, and/or perhaps that the entry be renamed, or deleted if this can't be done. Can you justify an entry called "religious conversion and terrorism"? Your claim is that there are people who convert to Islam and then become terrorists. Lets accept that this may be true, that does not mean that "religious conversion" (in general as the entry name would have it) and terrorism is notable or common enough to justify an entry. Are you saying that you want to save the content or that you want to save the page as it is? Please, in good faith, justify the existence of this entry (not just the particular information you wish to keep), and/or work towards implementing it usefully as one should when one de-PRODs an entry. Thanks.PelleSmith 16:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- This most certianly is worthwile content, and a good article can be written on this topic. There are many people who convert to Islam and then become terrorists.--Sefringle 06:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Please see WP:DEL#Deletion processes. That explains the reasons why an article should or should not be deleted. I'll add more sources as I find them, but heres a feew that briefly discusses the topic. [1][2][3]--Sefringle 04:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- And those sources illustrate again the problems with the entry "religious conversion and terrorism". What is the link between the two? Why should we link them in an entry? Why should we imply a connection? The sources are first of all ONLY about militant ISLAM. Why "religion" in general? Are there any other "religions" that have even anecdotal evidence of a convert becoming militant after conversion? The sources also prove only that some individuals who convert to a militant form of Islam have then engaged in radical and/or violent activities (e.g. terrorism). What is the significance of "conversion" other than the fact that these individuals were not Muslims prior to becoming Muslims hence having to "convert" at some point? The entry title implies a significance over and above the obvious. Is there perhaps a very specific significance to certain organizations that embrace these rare non-Muslims, help them convert and then get them to aid in radical activities? If so don't you think the matter is a bit too specific for its own entry? Can you address any of these difficulties? Do you plan on renaming ("moving" the entry) to specify that this isn't about "religion" but about militant Islam? Why keep on throwing around meaningless policy questions when the issue here is the simple fact that this entry as it is doesn't meet the standards of an encyclopedia.PelleSmith 13:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- If you want to move the article to Conversion to Islam and terrorism, I have no problem with that, but I think there was a reason why the origional creater called it Religous conversion.--Sefringle 23:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- And those reasons are?PelleSmith 00:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know.--Sefringle 00:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- That about sums up the reasons I've heard for keeping this entry. Thanks.PelleSmith 00:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- It also sums up the reasons I've heard for deleting this article.--Sefringle 01:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- My appologies. Please see below, and above. Cheers.PelleSmith 03:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know.--Sefringle 00:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- And those reasons are?PelleSmith 00:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- If you want to move the article to Conversion to Islam and terrorism, I have no problem with that, but I think there was a reason why the origional creater called it Religous conversion.--Sefringle 23:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Suggesting a Merge into Islamist terrorism
This page surely has nothing to do with "religion" generically. However, it also has nothing to do with "conversion" except circumstantially. That is, there is no substantive connection between "conversion" to religion, or Islam specifically, and terrorism. The entry is simply about converts to Islam who have become militant. The current entry title is simply fallacious and moving it to Conversion to Islam and terrorism would not add anything substantive. It would simply be another space in which to provide information about Islamist terrorism (granted through a very negligible aspect of such terrorism--recent converts to Islam). Therefore I suggest the information on this page merge into Islamist terrorism. Please consider the merits of this merge as the other option I am entertaining is an AfD. Thanks.PelleSmith 03:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
