Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Language/2006 August 9

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Humanities Science Mathematics Computing/IT Language Miscellaneous Archives

The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions at one of the pages linked to above.

< August 8 Language desk archive August 10 >

Contents 1 "correspondance" a valid French word? 2 Translation from Japanese 3 A Dutch translation. 4 Plagerism Plagiarism 5 I Ching 6 Asian verbosity 7 Translation of the following into as many languages as possible. 8 IPA for "Gisele Bündchen"

[edit] "correspondance" a valid French word?

Of course in English it's a typo, but googling it seems to get French results. Comments? --mboverload@ 08:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, judging from http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondance --Kjoonlee 09:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Correspondant(e) is the French word for correspondent, and correspondre is the verb, so I suppose it makes sense that correspondance is the French word for correspondence. Markdarb 21:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation from Japanese

Hi,

Just trying to work my way through a homework assignment :-)

I've stumbled across the following sentence..

日本人が毎年春する事があります。何だか知っていますか。

I'm stuck on the meaning of 春する and 何だか.. The closest I can get to a translation is "Every year the Japanese experience spring; what do you know about this?" but that doesn't sound right to me. :-(

Thanks in advance for any help.

splintax ^(talk) 09:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Directly translated Japanese almost never sounds right. The languagese are too different. ;) Also, I think it's unclear who it is that "知っていますか" refers to, the reader or the Japanese people? Having said that, my Japanese is very limited... 惑乱 分からん 10:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I should have clarified.. this is from a series of questions that I'll be asked and have to respond to. The 知っていますか refers to me, the reader - as a Westerner, many of the other questions are asking me what I know about Japanese culture (eg. "日本でたくさん雪がふる所を知っていますか" - "Do you know a place in Japan where lots of snow falls?"). splintax ^(talk) 10:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

何だか means 'a little', 'a bit'. Idiomatically, maybe "Do you know anything about spring in Japan", or more literally "Do you know anything about Japanese people's experience of spring?" (The answer's almost certainly sakura.) :) Henry^Flower 10:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Jim Breen's dictionary gives:

何だか 【なんだか】 (adv) (a) little; somewhat; somehow; (P); EP

Maybe that would translate as "Do you know anything about it?" 惑乱 分からん 10:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

(After edit conflicts:) Japanese-person-TOPIC/SUBJECT every-year spring do-work/thing-TOPIC/SUBJECT-exists. (Of-)Which-know-PRESENT-QUESTION. I don't really know Japanese very well, but my translation (thanks to the similarities between Japanese and Korean) would be: There's something that Japanese people do every year at spring. Do you know what/which it is? --Kjoonlee 10:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Nandaka is usually translated to "무엇인지" or "무언가" in Korean. 무엇인지 means "something" or "what it is" or something like that. --Kjoonlee 10:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks guys. I remember vaguely the teacher mentioning sakura when going through the sheet yesterday, now. I've translated it as "Every year, the Japanese experience spring. Do you know much about it?". splintax ^(talk) 11:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Noooooh.. suru is not an auxiliary verb here.. --Kjoonlee 11:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

And suru-koto is an action, so the answer is probably hanami, if it's related to sakura. --Kjoonlee 11:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The translation of Kjoon (bold sentence) is perfect -- Are you really ja-1?? I don't know Korean unfortunately, but this fact seems to imply the similarities between Japanese and Korean is significant! The problem was, in fact, that the original Japanse sentence was not that perfect...

• original: 日本人が毎年春する事があります。何だか知っていますか。
• normal: 日本人が毎年春にする事があります。何だか知っていますか。

Usually に ("in", "at" or "on" depending on the context) is needed after 春, since 春 (spring) alone is just a noun. Note, though, some words like 昨日, 今日 or 明日 can be used as adverbs by itself, say: "明日買い物に行く" = "I'm going to go shopping tomorrow" (hmm, in English it's not on tomorrow, either... coincident?)

It is clear (in Japanese) who it is that "知っていますか" refers to: the reader, or the person who is asked. Actually, this sentence is ommiting "あなたはそれが" before "何だか知っていますか". The phrase "(それが)何だか" in this context is equivalent to "(それが)何であるか" = "what it is". Thus, the last half is the short form of "あなたはそれが何であるか知っていますか" which means "Do you know what it is?" (where, it = the thing Japanse people do in every spring... uh, probably ja:花見? ... oh, Kjoon already mentioned it!)

• 蛇足 (dasoku, a side note): "何だか" as an adverb is like thie: "何だか眠いな..." = "Nandaka nemui na..." = "I'm feeling a little sleepy...". "何か" (nanka) can also be used. --marsian 03:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

That also brings to light the obvious problem with referring to a dictionary for definitions of anything more complex than a simple noun. The dictionary you (the original poster) read that defined 何だか as "a little" was attempting a convenience for English speakers, when in reality it has no such meaning. Note that in English, "I'm a little sick" and "I'm kind of sick" have almost exactly the same meaning, though the words "a little" (a small amount) and "kind of" (a type of) have very different meanings. It is not realistic to believe such words can translate so easily into every language, and it's a shame that dictionaries try to inform users in such a way. It is much more easy to understand, anyways, when you realize the grammatical parts, e.g. WHAT + copula + QUESTION, which clearly gives it the same meaning as 何か (WHAT + QUESTION), which was so clearly explained at length previously by Marsian.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  20:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Dutch translation.

Could anyone provide Dutch, Swedish, Finnish or Norwegian translations of the word "plant"?

• Dutch: Planten [This is plural, sing. plant -- David Sneek 11:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)]
• Swedish: Växter
• Finnish: Kasvi
• Norwegian
  • Nynorsk: Plante
  • Bokmål: Planter

You can use Wikipedia as a simple translator by looking at the InterWiki links at Plant. --Kjoonlee 11:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You can also use Wiktionary, the sister project of Wikipedia. It includes the entry for plant. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 11:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You've seriously mixed up singular and plural form for several languages, Swedish: växt / växter (or planta / plantor), Dutch: plant / planten, Bokmål: plante / planter, vekst / vekster, Nynorsk: plante/ planter, vekst / vekster, vokster / vokstrar As far as I know. I don't know Finnish, but considering how the forms are mixed for most other languages, I would be suspicious concerning Finnish, too... 惑乱 分からん 11:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

/me smacks forehead. --Kjoonlee 12:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Which meaning(s) of plant? --Lambiam^Talk 02:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Well? 惑乱 分からん 11:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Any.

Is there still a problem now concerning the Dutch translation? Anyway : the plant (singular,noun, as in your garden) = de plant the plants (plural, noun, as in your garden) = de planten plant (singular, noun, as in power plant) = centrale :) Evilbu 13:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plagerism Plagiarism

I have recently read a book, in which everything including quotes were not cited. I need to know who to report this author and book to.

Report this to the people whose work was copied. Note that a lack of citations is not the same as plagiarism; many popular books do not follow this academic pattern. Plagiarism is outright copying. Notinasnaid 11:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

See plagiarism and copyright infringement. Quoting up to 400 words of a work still under copyright is normally considered fair use. More than this and the publisher or author will have to seek permission, but they are not obliged to provide a reference unless they are specifically asked to do so by the copyright holder, though I agree a lack of references can be very annoying.--Shantavira 13:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I imagine there must be exceptions to the 400 word limit. For example, a book which is a review of another book would certainly need to quote far more of the original than that. StuRat 17:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but the publisher would still need permission. There are various exceptions. For example, you shouldn't quote more than 25% of a poem without permission (again, assuming it's still under copyright). This is a real bugger when you only want to quote a haiku.--Shantavira 07:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Those seem to be pretty arbitrary limits. I don't think such limits are actually written into law anywhere; they're probably just guidelines. —Bkell (talk) 19:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I Ching

How is "I Ching" properly pronounced in English? I've heard it as either "I ching" or "E ching" (I don't know IPA). Dismas|^(talk) 12:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I've heard both too. I doubt there is any one "correct" way. I'm surprised that a lot of people have never even heard of it, so it hardly matters in the end. JackofOz 12:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The modern Chinese pronunciation is, in a rough and ready romanisation, 'Ee Jeeng'; the 'Eye Ching' pronunciation is the result of applying conventions of English spelling-sound correlation to Chinese systems (with unfortunate results). Having said that, one could argue that in English we can call it whatever we like, and that the English name doesn't need to be the same as the Chinese one (and the pronunciation 2000 years ago was ceratinly nothing like either of them). I'd just say use whatever is most likely to be understood- Chinese-style or English-style according to your audience. (As a sidenote, I saw a reporter on the news today talking about a 'priceless Kwing vase'. Oh, how I giggled). Henry^Flower 12:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Reminds me of a radio announcer on a classical station in Texas who announced the broadcoast of Gow-nodd's Faust; the scene began with Faust "laminating" his fate... User:Angr 13:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Which in turn reminds me of a scene from the wonderful short film "X Marks the Spot" (about automobile safety) as interpreted by MST3K:

(Joe Doaks and his guardian angel arrive in God's "crummy" office.)

CROW (speaking as GOD): I'll be with you in a moment, I'm just sealing some fates. --Tkynerd 13:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the info... even the off topic sort.  :-) --Dismas|^(talk) 14:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Very...non sequituric. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 15:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to comment on that, but I can't think of anyth ........ (oops). :--) JackofOz 23:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• I've been told "yee zhing" but China is a huge place so maybe accents differ but I say "eye ching" to some people cos they don't know what I'm talking about otherwise hotclaws**-- now where are my three coins(82.138.214.1 16:06, 14 August 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Asian verbosity

I was at a place today where there was a poster on the wall aimed at non-English speakers. It said "Ask for an interpreter here", then translated that sentence into a range of other languages. The Serbian, Czech, Macedonian, Greek, Indonesian and Turkish translations each required 3 words. The Spanish, Arabic, Armenian and Georgian versions used 4 words. The Italian translation needed 5 words, like the English original. But the Thai, Chinese and Vietnamese translations each used no less than 10 words or characters. Why so many words/characters for such a simple concept that other languages can get by with using as few as 3 words? JackofOz 12:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

In Chinese and Vietnamese at least, each character corresponds to one syllable, and a word might be more than one syllable. Thai is written in an abugida, so I don't know if you saw that many words or that many individual consonant symbols with their concomitant vowel markings, but if it was the latter, it will also be roughly one syllable per symbol. User:Angr 12:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, Chinese, Thai and Vietnamese are analytic languages, which use functional words rather than inflection to indicate various factors. The more concise languages may be pro-drop, for example. How is your Thai, by the way- are you sure these were separate words? Henry^Flower 13:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The Thai and Georgian were educated guesses. They may not have been those languages at all. The one that really amazed me was Vietnamese. I even wrote it down (pardon some missed diacritics): "Quŷ vi có thê xin thông ngôn viên ó đây". Supplementary question: Why is Vietnamese so chock-full of diacritics? There's hardly a word that doesn't have one or more. JackofOz 13:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Because Vietnamese is tonal. Chinese has lots of diacritics too, when it's written in Latin.

As Henry hinted at, the number of words isn't the only number worth counting. How many syllables did they have? Inuktitut could probably express "Ask for an interpreter here" in a single word, but it would be a very long word. How many morphemes did they have? The Asian languages might have expressed part of the meaning in a separate word that the other languages put in a suffix on another word, but in terms of communicative efficiency, it amounts to the same thing. Would you say English must be wordier than German because English uses two words ("Main Page") while German uses one ("Hauptseite")? --Ptcamn 13:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It mightn't always be like that of course - I recall the name of an Asian country or something being only two short words - syllables, even - with its English translation being "Land of a Thousand Elephants". It all reeks a bit of the Sapir-Whorf (I think that's what it is) hypothesis, I suppose. It's a bit like the aforementioned Inuktitut example. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 14:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

That would be Lan Xang. Actually it seems to me that an explanation in terms of analytic/synthetic languages is the opposite of Sapir-Whorf.And therefore probably right. Henry^Flower 15:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

True: the example I gave is probably to do with S-W but in the question it's all analytic vs. synthetic. Whoops. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 15:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, can anyone do a back-translation of the Vietnamese version I quoted above, "word" for "word"? JackofOz 14:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to guess that among the Asian languages, the Korean and Japanese translations were very polite-- this can really add on alot of syllables. Perhaps this is part of the explanation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.236.49.81 (talk • contribs).

Since (as far as we know) there weren't any Korean or Japanese translations, I'd say probably not. :) Henry^Flower 12:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's a try for a

back-translation of the Vietnamese version, "word" for "word"

of Quý vị có thể xin thông ngôn viện ở đây. (as I think it should be)

quý 

honorable

vị 

part of "you", quý vị is a polite way of saying "you all"

có 

have

thể 

possibility – có thể means "can"

xin 

to beg for, to request

thông 

understand

ngôn 

speak – thông ngôn just means "interpreter". It's a bit silly to split that one up, like "inter pret er".

viện 

help – xin viện means "ask for help"

ở 

at

đây 

here – in fact ở đây means "here" in full

I hope this is somewhat what you were searching for... David 22:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks David. That's very enlightening. JackofOz 04:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Most nouns in formal writing are created in Chinese with 2 characters, and I can only assume the same for Vietnamese (and it seems to be so from David's great explanation!). Thus "interpreter" and "here" will automatically take 4 "words", although they're more like syllables.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  20:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

viện should be viên. Viên is similar to the suffix -er in English. "Thông ngôn viên", literally, is "understand speak person" or "interpreter". It is quite archaic. "Thông dịch viên" is usually used instead. DHN 12:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of the following into as many languages as possible.

I'd like to get a translation of the following into as many languages as possible. My own language skills only allow me to translate it it to poor Esperanto and even worse Malay, and Babelfish is far too... well, horrible. I appreciate any responses. My world is collapsing. People are aware but not that bothered. They casually avoid large parts of the structure as it falls to the earth. Taiq 14:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

German - Meine Welt stürzt ein. Die Leute sind gewahr aber haben keine Lust. Sie fechten großen Stücke des Aufbaus beiläufig an, während es zum Grund (or zur Erde if you mean the planet Earth) fällt.I hope that's right.- THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 15:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Leute is a plural noun in German. Otherwise, I'd go with Meine Welt bricht zusammen. Die Menschen wissen es aber es stört sie nicht. Sie umgehen unbekümmert die großen Stücke der Struktur, die zur Erde fallen. User:Angr 15:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the translations so far. To clarify a little, "the earth" refers to "the ground". Taiq 16:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Then, zu Boden may or may not be better, depends. It should be fällt instead of fallen since sie refers to the structure. Greatgavini's version sounds a lot like coming straight from Babelfish.--80.136.159.34 17:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

What? What's Babelfish??? And in case you hadn't noticed, "structure" is singular and masculine thus would not use sie. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 17:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Struktur is feminine (der Struktur is genitive singular feminine), but I intentionally used the plural of fallen to indicate that parts of the structure that are falling to the ground and people are walking casually around them, rather than that the entire structure is falling to the ground at once. User:Angr 18:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I meant Aufbau is masculine. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 07:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The original says "it".--80.136.159.34 19:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Aye, that's right. It should be singular like the one in mine. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 07:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Dutch - "Mijn wereld stort in. De mensen realiseren zich dit, maar trekken zich er niet veel van aan. Ze ontwijken achteloos grote stukken van de structuur terwijl die ter aarde stort." The first sentence would more literally be "Mijn wereld is in aan het storten". The last bit coud be "... terwijl die op de grond valt", but I made it somewhat more poetic, in keeping with the style. I won't dare other languages with phrases like that. DirkvdM 16:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, if he can use stort in for "collapse", then surely stürzt ein sounds alright for the German one, if not sounding a little "western".- THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 18:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know Dutch, and German isn't my native language, but my non-native intuition of German says einstürzen is too literal for "My world is collapsing", though if the second part of the sentence had said the structure was collapsing, einstürzen would have been okay there. User:Angr 18:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Meine Welt bricht zusammen is idiomatic.--80.136.159.34 19:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

French - Mon monde s'écroule. Les gens sont bien avisés mais ça leur est bien égal. Ils évitent avec désinvolture de grands fragments de la structure pendant qu'elle tombe par terre. And I did not use Babelfish. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 18:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather have "Les gens sont au courant mais cela ne les dérange pas|cela leur est bien égal." --DLL ^{.. T} 18:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

And what about: "... pendant qu'elle ..."? --Lambiam^Talk 02:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Is that when you use it? I thought it meant "during that". - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 07:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

For "during" followed by noun it's "pendant", but followed by a clause as here it's "pendant que".

I'd prefer to translate "people" as "on". Possibly something like "On est bien au courant, mais on s'en fiche." ("s'en fiche" is slightly idiomatic but not highly so I think.) And then "On évite" etc. --Zeborah 08:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Russian. Мой мир рушится. Люди это видят, но им нет до этого дела. Они небрежно уклоняются от падающих на землю больших кусков здания.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Spanish - Mi mundo se derrumba. Todos son conscientes pero les da igual. Evitan despreocupadamente los pedazos de la estructura al caer a la tierra. Some variants: se derrumba/se cae a pedazos; todos/la gente; son conscientes/están al corriente/lo saben; les da igual/no les molesta; a la tierra/al suelo.--RiseRover|^talk 19:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

In stead of 'son conscientes' I would have used 'se dan cuenta', but then my Spanish isn't that perfect. DirkvdM 09:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Igpay Atinlay: Ymay orldway isway ollapsingcay. Eoplepay areway awareway utbay otnay atthay otheredbay. Eythay asuallycay avoidway argelay artspay ofway ethay ucturestray asway itway allsfay otay ethay earthway.  ;-) hydnjo talk 19:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

In Syriac Aramaic it is:

ܥܠܡܝ ܗܘ ܢܦܠ

ܥܡܐ ܗܘ ܚܙܐ

ܐܠܐ ܗܢܘܢ

ܠܐ ܚܫܒܝܢ ܐܢܘܢ

ܡܬܦܪܩܝܢ ܐܢܘܢ

ܡܢ ܡܢܘܬܐ ܕܒܢܝܢܐ

ܐܝܟܢܐ ܗܘ

ܢܦܠ ܠܐܪܥܐ

which transliterates roughly as:

‘olamyu nofel

‘amau hoze

elo henun

lo-hoshbin enun

methparqin enun

men-menawotho d-venyono

aikano hu

nofel lar‘o

I hope that's OK. — Gareth Hughes 20:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Czech – Můj svět se hroutí. Lidé jsou si toho vědomi, ale nezajímá je to. Lhostejně se vyhýbají velkým kusům struktury, které padají k zemi. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 22:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

1337 - |\/|y w0|21|) 15 c0ll@p51n6. Ppl @|23 @w@|23 8u7 n07 807h3|23d. 7h3y c@5u@11y @v01d 1@|263 p@|275 0|= 7h3 57|2u(7u|23 @5 17 |=@115 70 7h3 3@|27h. schyler 23:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Turkish – Dünyam çökiyor. İnsanlar duyuyor ama endişesi yokmuş. Yere düşen bünyenin büyük parçaları raslantısal çekiniyorlar. --Lambiam^Talk 02:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Scots - Ma warld's comin in. Folk is awaur bot nae gey fasht. Thay owerlie jouk lairge dauds o tha framewark while hit fa's tae tha grun. I'd like to point out that, me being me, it's not worth going by my translations. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 13:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Swedish - Min värld rasar ihop. Folk vet om det men det bekommer dem inte så mycket. Obekymrade går de runt stora stycken från strukturen medan det hela faller till marken. Corrections or other help welcome, as Swedish is not my first language. (I'm specifically dissatisfied with my use of strukturen for the structure, but I couldn't think of anything better.) --Tkynerd 18:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Possibly Min värld faller samman." Then either folk "är medvetna om det/"vet om det" or "märker det" (notice it), "men bryr sig inte". "De undviker obekymrat stora stycken av massan(?) medan den faller till marken", possibly. I sure would like to know what context this is for...

"Hebrew - "עולמי נופל. אנשים יודעים אבל לא אכפת להם כל כך. הם מתרחקים באופן מקרי מהחלקים הגדולים של המבנה כשהוא נופל ארצה" which would be transliterated (with ch representing the voiceless fricative chet or chaf) as " 'Olami nophel. Anashim yod'im aval lo echpat lahem kol kach. Hem mitrachaqim ba'ophen miqri mehachalaqim hag'dolim shel hamivneh k'sh'hu nophel artza." СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 18:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Norwegian - Min verden faller samme. Folk vet om det, men bryr seg ikke. De unngår ubekymret store deler av strukturen etterhvert som den faller til bakken -- Tsaetre 20:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Arabic..

العالم ينهار من حولي,الناس يعلمون ذلك ولكنهم لا يكترثون,انهم غالبا يحاولون تجنب الحطام المتساقط من الهيكل على الأرض

[edit] IPA for "Gisele Bündchen"

Could anyone provide the IPA for Gisele Bündchen's name? Note that:

Gisele's name is actually pronounced Giseli (The e at the end of her name is not silent). She has said it doesn't matter to her now how people pronounce her name. Her last name is pronounced "Bindchen". -- Zanimum 15:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Now there's a challenge: how is a German name pronounced by Portuguese speakers. Gisele is [ˈgiːzələ] in German but probably [ʒiˈzɛli] in Brazilian Portuguese. Bündchen is [ˈbʏntçən] in German, but since Portuguese has neither [ʏ] nor [ç] it's anyone's guess how the name is pronounced in Brazil. [ˈbĩtʃẽ], maybe? User:Angr 15:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Is there any way to list the Brazillian pronouncation and German prounciation together at the start of an article? Or should it be mentioned in the footnote explaining the IPA? I've added the German pron. for now. -- Zanimum 16:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Angr: this is an interesting one. Does anyone know which is her first language? I've added the IPA for the German and supposed Brazilian Portuguese pronunciations to the ref. — Gareth Hughes 18:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me a really bad idea to start guessing how her name is pronounced in order to put it in the article. Since no-one here seems to know whether she uses a German, Brazilian, or other pronunciation, badly-educated guesses are worse than nothing. Henry^Flower 20:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

However, there is a good chance that her family is still German-speaking, and uses the German pronunciation. However, Bünchen's statement that it doesn't matter how it's pronounced could be something to do with her being used to hearing a Portuguese pronunciation of her name. It is highly unlikely that she would pronounce her name in any other way than these two. As a Brazilian citizen of German descent, both pronunciations have some merit. — Gareth Hughes 21:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I strongly doubt her family would apply German pronunciation rules to Gisele. It's not a German name I've ever heard of – I guess it's a version of French Gisèle sans diacritics, or perhaps a Portuguese form. If it's German, it's probably an affective or dialectal form of Gisela, a fairly common name some decades ago. Wikipeditor 00:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I looked on Youtube, and it looks like Angr is close. The host shown in this clip pronounces it [ʒiˈzɛli ˈbĩtʃĩ]. Gustavo Kuerten's last name was pronounced [ˈkiɾtẽ]. Also, it's interesting to note that the word ü in über-model was pronounced [ju]. --Chris S. 05:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)