Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 October 29

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1 October 29

[edit] October 29

[edit] redeeming paper airline vouchers

got bumped from a fliight and I got a voucher. how do I use it when booking online? (american airlines)

If their web page offers you no option for this, you may need to call their reservations office. --Lambiam ^Talk 05:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Should I buy Oblivion for the PS3? Somebody is inevitably is going to answer "Well, it's your choice". I know that, I just want to know if people think it will be a good game. Яussiaп F 01:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Compared to the expectations it is somewhat disappointing (but thats to be expected of all overhyped games). Compared to other RPGs its great. The 2 biggest complaints there has been about the game has been lvl scaling, and too extensive handholding, whether you like that or not is up to yourself. Joneleth 02:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The reference desk is for asking about factual matters only, not gathering opinions. Try Gamespot or something -Elmer Clark 10:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] There must be an easy answer to this

When looking at a page like List of Nunavut birds the syllabics show fine in Firefox but in in Maxthon or IE7 I just see the little boxes. If I copy and paste from Maxthon into MS Word to edit, then the syllabics show up fine. The strange thing is that it's just on my home computer, all of the work computers show everything fine in both browsers. How do I get the syllabics back? Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 01:20, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

You might try this question at the Computing/IT desk. -THB 05:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Don't know why I posted here, except the answers tend to be stranger. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Managing a library of D&D PDFs

I recently downloaded a 7.5GB .torrent of PDF bootlegs of recent Dungeons & Dragons books, magazine articles, web supplements and stationery. Most of it is from WotC, but some is from third-party publishers. I found the folder organization incomplete and slipshod...

You get what you pay for, eh? —Steve Summit (talk) 15:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

(with many supplements and tracking sheets filed under "Core Rulebooks"), and several duplicate and triplicate books. I'm trying to reorganize and edit the torrent's contents for burning to a DVD±R for my club's use, and also to create a new version of the torrent. My questions are as follows:

The torrent contains both 3.0e and 3.5e material. Most of the optional rulebooks, setting books (e.g. Forgotten Realms) and modules don't specify which edition they're for. In this case, can I assume they work with either post-THAC0 edition?
In the books of which there are multiple copies, I'll sometimes have one with higher-resolution scans of the artwork, one with proofread OCRed text, and one with sections and tables bookmarked. Is there an easy way to combine all these into one file, assuming perfect page-to-page correspondence between them, and eliminate redundant data?
I'm thinking it might be best to include shortcuts, to make more than one sorting scheme available without duplicating files. (So for instance, I could sort by publisher first, edition first, function first or setting first, and also make A-Z indices of races, classes, spells etc.) Will the shortcuts likely be retargeted as necessary by BitTorrent and the DVD-burning software? Will .lnk shortcuts work (or easily be converted) on Macs and Linux systems? (I'll be creating the DVD and torrent from Windows.)

Neon Merlin 02:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you should try this question over at the Computing/IT desk. -THB 05:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The first question isn't computing/IT, even if it's the computing/IT people who would know the answer. Neon Merlin 14:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

1. No idea 2. You can not easily combine PDFs. You have to convert them from PDF and then back again and the conversion will probably produce garbled results or will not even be possible. 3. .lnk files do not really work in linux nor mac (I think) and the standard unix link files do not work in windoze. Probably the easiest way to organise these files would be a simple HTML file. The 'pooting desk may offer better ideas for home-made solutions or suggest a e-book cataloguing application. MeltBanana 15:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

PDFtk (which is free) combines PDFs very nicely, and I've never experienced corruption. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:25, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prefect

Hey, I'm a student studying at Mount Roskill Grammar School in New Zealand. Does anyone know what is required to be a prefect at that school?

-upperclassman -trustworthy -honest -non-biased -at least slightly charismatic

good luck!

Surely you would be better off asking the teachesrs. 8-|--Light current 07:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fedex

how much, within $5-$10, will it cost me to ship a document in 24 hours half-way across the USA?

fedex's system was down, they can't give me a quote!

Probably about $25, that would be if you have your own shipping account, if you go to fedex/kinkos, might be more like $40. --Mattarata 03:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Movie SIGNS

I am interested in knowing how Mr. Shyamalan came up with the name, Merrill Hess, and that character's baseball background for this movie. Thank you........

M. S . Hess

[edit] question

what is the best way to vandalise wikipedia?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by SoulSceptre (talk • contribs).

By asking questions at the reference desk and not signing them. -THB 05:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I could tell you but I'd be violating WP:BEANS. --WikiSlasher 07:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Posting joke questions on the RDs 8-|--Light current 07:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

There is no "good" way to vandalize Wikipedia. Any and every way is bad. X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve) 08:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

get a popular television show and instuct your viewers to edit a random article and watch what happens. Jon513 11:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

go here [1] and see what these people did by clicking on their contributions. I think this one's pretty good. [2]Taida 18:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps getting a large amount of people to vandalize various parts of Wikipedia with you for a long duration. --Proficient 23:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

This is like asking a policeman the best way to murder somebody. JackofOz 07:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

While wearing a mask. Or is that illegal? 169.139.224.100 13:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Since we can't tell if people are wearing a mask or not it could not possibly make a difference. --WikiSlasher 06:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] travel

i heard that it is more tyring to travel from west to east than from west to east. is it true and if yes what is the reason behind it.

Please see the penultimate paragraph of jet lag. -THB 05:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

And geostrophic wind, if you're in the southern hemisphere.--Shantavira 08:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] weightlifting

Does weightlifting affect your height? i'm now 15 and i haven't grown an inch since when i was 12. i am still 1.81m

Well, that's possible if you work very hard, I guess, although maybe you weren't biologically predisposed to grow taller, to begin with... (1.81=6"0' approx). 惑乱分からん 10:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

silly Wak, 1.81 m = 6'0"

(Forgive me, I'm Swedish, born and bred in Metric, besides, it's probably closer to 5'11") 惑乱分からん 17:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

There is a generally held opinion (I don't know if it's ever been verified) that lifting heavy weights before the bones are fully formed can lead to problems with the bone growth due to the constant forces exerted through the enlarged muscles.

However, I've never heard it claimed that it will actually stop the bones from growing at all, and that sounds pretty unlikely to me. You sound like you were a bit of giant for a 12yo, but perhaps that's it and you won't grow any taller, or maybe you'll have another growth spurt. You'd need to see an expert who could more accurately evaluate your personal characteristics (e.g., stage of puberty), family history (e.g., height of parents), etc. We can't evaluate any of that. --jjron 11:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

You're at a normal height. Stress such as weightlifting actually causes bones to grow stronger. If you lifted too much weight, you could cause fractures in vertebrae and loss of height. -THB 21:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] football(soccer)

I wanna to be a football(soccer) analyst.Who can help me to achieve my goals? I mean are there any colleges who can give the education, which is related with these field?

What exactly do you mean by 'analyst'? I don't know of any specific courses, but for what it sounds like you want to do I'd think you'd want to continue in maths (especially statistics) with a strong emphasis on computer applications. That, along with trying to get your foot in the door on a practical level, e.g., by volunteering to keep stats and do analyses for local teams, gradually trying to get yourself involved with teams higher up the scale or with the media in some way. --jjron 11:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

You might start with analysing the name. It's association football. Or just plain 'football' to 95% of people in the world. 'Soccer' is children's lingo. It's like calling American football 'merrer'. DirkvdM 08:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Soccer being used to distinguish football from football in the 1800s... Luigi30 (Taλk) 13:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

You mean 'rugger'? The funny thing is those sports already have names other than 'football', so there's no need for a mutilation of the name of football proper. And to distinguish between the sports that do have football in their names you could use the full names, like 'asssociation football' and 'australian rules football'. Of course those names are rather long, so it makes sense to shorten them to 'ausser' (or 'aussie rules') and 'merrer' (or 'mercan', whatever). But why should the original football have to change its name? Let the newcomers solve the problem they created. DirkvdM 04:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

And while I'm on the subject, another problem is that most people who consider themselves to be Americans also consider 'football' to be association football, so calling another sport 'American football' would be a misnomer. Why not 'American rugby', because it's basically a variation on that. And those sports can then be distinguished between with the names 'league', 'union' and, ehm, 'merrer'. Or what ever. I don't care, as long as it isn't 'football'. DirkvdM 05:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion of These People

What is the religion of the people in this photograph? Amish, Quaker, Mormon? --CGP 08:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks Amish to me. Natgoo 08:31, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd go with Amish. The article could do with some decent pictures of the people rather than their laundry!--Shantavira 08:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Another possibility is Mennonite. There are a number of Mennonite communities. I don't know about the Amish but in the one community of Mennonites that I am familiar with they have no problem using modern equipment or going on vacations but they do dress traditionally like in the picture. --Justanother 19:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I used to rent a house from my Mennonite neighbors. Given that the picture is just the back of a bunch of people it would be hard to say that they were either Amish or Mennonite. The style of dress for the two religions is very similar. Dismas|^(talk) 20:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't Mennonite men wear simple straw hats like this one: [3] ? If so, the black hat in the pic would then seem to indicate they are not Mennonites. StuRat 22:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Amish and Mormons don't live near Yellowstone. bibliomaniac15 02:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

No, but they can visit, can't they ? StuRat 02:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lat + Long of Continental Divide in Yellowstone

Anyone know the Latitude and Longitude of the continental divide in yellowstone? I know it's a line, but that sign is on a road crossing the divided, and that's the location I'm looking for. --CGP 08:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

yellowstone is about 44.4592N, -110.8331W I cannot tell you the exact location of a road sign. Try looking on google earth. Jon513 11:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's what I've been doing, trouble is there aren't really identifiable landmarks that I can use to try and narrow the location of the divide down. --CGP 11:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

try adding the google earth community layer. it contains contrabutions from different people around the world. beware- it is not always accurate. Jon513 11:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Ideally what you need is a good map with that spot height on it. I went to Flickr and searched for "continental divide yellowstone". This returns four results for that particular sign. One of those (click on the "map" link of the guy peeing) gives coordinates of 44°37' 29" N, 110°26' 03" W. From the look of the satellite photo, that would seem to be fairly accurate.--Shantavira 12:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

You might get the precise location of the sign, but that doesn't mean that the continental divide runs precisely past it (or 'under it'?) because it's not a geometrically precise line like the equator. It's the area where, if a raindrop falls there, it is uncertain which watershed it will become part of - most likely different molecules of it will flow in diferent directions. In young mountains with very sharp ridges that zone might be just a few centimeters wide at certain spots, but Yellowstone is nowhere near like that, so the 'line' will probably be several meters wide. But people like to pin things down, so someone put a sign up somehwere in that zone. DirkvdM 08:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] canada post

approximately how long does it take for regular mail to go from one side of the country to the other, ie vancouver to ottawa/montreal?

What is this time during peak months, the christmas holidays? valentines? mothers day? thank you

-jimbo

I'd say that if you're trying to get that Hallowe'en greeting to your friends in Ottawa and Montreal, you're probably too late. My personal experience is three or four business days during normal service. I think that would apply for Valentine's and Mother's day, although a couple of extra days wouldn't hurt. IIRC during the Xmas season (the only time that they actually have an extraordinary load), they say 9 business days for regular mail across Canada, just to be safe, and longer for parcels. In my experience it's usually taken less time than that. Anchoress 11:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

thank you for answering the question and for such a quick reply!=) -jimbo

[edit] Who stole October 27 from the Contents list here?

At the risk of repeating myself...............

Weird. The transcluded page doesn't seem to exist. And it hasn't been archived. Probably in the diffs, but I'm too lazy to look. Maybe an archiving error? Maybe the transcluded page is mis-named? Anchoress 12:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

No - it's not mis-named. There was an article I was keeping an eye on that is no longer there.

Sorry, I don't understand you. What does one have to do with the other? See, if you look in the edit mode of the Misc page, there's a transcluded page listed for October 27, but it isn't visible. And when I went to look to see what was in the transcluded page, it doesn't exist. So I wondered if the transcluded page was made, but misnamed. Elsewise, it must have been deleted, which is possible, but not likely. Anchoress 12:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi - I'm not sure why the archival page wasn't made properly by the bot - my guess is a "loss of edit session data" error in wikipedia. I've manually fixed the error. For future reference, you can look at the bot contribs to see whether the pages have been made. I hope this helps, and I'm looking into a workaroud for the increasingly common error. Thanks for reporting it - M a rtinp23 14:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Martin, that is much appreciated.

No problem - it's my bot that screwed up :S M a rtinp23 19:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Training

What would you guys say is the definition of the principle of training?

TAR JOZZALD

OK, I would say that training is instruction in the theory and practice of some subject with the desired end that you be able to duplicate the results of the instructor. In other words training is geared toward competence and doing, not merely knowledge. --Justanother 19:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Are There Univerisity Level Fashion History Courses? And If So, What Are They And Where Could I Take Them?

Danke.100110100 16:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Fashion Institute of Technology

B00P 16:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I've googled their website, and their course descriptions do not include Fashion History as a 100 level course. I'm confused.100110100 17:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, there are undoubtedly fashion history courses somewhere. I don't know what "What are they?" means, though; Universities can create courses in anything they want and name the course anything they want. There's no standard for what courses should be named and contain. But you're much more likely to find courses in general art and design history than ones specifically devoted to couture. --BluePlatypus 16:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

'What Are They?' I meant by the number and institution that offers it. Danke.100110100 17:51, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

If by "a 100 level course" you mean some stand-alone introductory course, not part of a full academic program, then you might check out what is being offered by the Metropolitan Museum of Art. They offer various programs to the public based upon their collection. In fact you might do well to actually visit any museum near you that has a collection of historical clothing, speak with a curator, and ask him.

B00P 09:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why are manga black an white?

why is it that almost every manga is black and white?i've only seen a blue inked manga once but it was in japanese.But when i bought a box of japanese yugioh cards,it came with a manga paper which had a chapter in the 5th volume inside;it was inked with RED!then when i saw that SAME chapter in English it was white and black!i was so confused.i wonder why most manga are black and white.Thanks for your time.

I think it's simply that it's competition driven and, despite recent advances in printing, black-and-white publications are still a lot cheaper to produce.--Shantavira 18:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, and it's more time-efficient, considering the sheer amount of material produced... 惑乱分からん 18:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

On a footnote, occasional pages of popular series are often colorized when published in magazines, although they're generally reprinted in B/W. You could usually spot them because they have more nuances/shades of grey, and they're often somewhat murky in appearance... 惑乱分からん 20:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Korean magazines used to use dark blue or dark green ink as well, switching the colour of the ink several times in an issue. I suspect Japanese magazines do the same, when they print the manuscripts. Note however that the original manuscripts are done in pencil, inked with black ink, sometimes using white paint for highlights and screentone for textures/backgrounds/etc. --Kjoonlee 04:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, Japanese magazines often have different background color on the pages (like dusty pink, dusty green, dusty blue and dusty yellow ;) ) I think the ink color is usually black, though... Screentone is indeed very common... Some old Swedish comics from the 50's switched ink as well, by the way... 惑乱分からん 12:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the main thing is that most manga is designed to be cheap, quickly-produced, and discardable. Hence most of it is black and white, and the paper it's printed on is about as cheap as it comes. Confusing Manifestation 09:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inserting pictures

I have added a a new paragraph to the page on 'Snuff Bottle' entitled 'Sybolism in Snuff Bottle decoration' and tried to insert a photo. I have tried to follow the instructions provided on the Wikipedia site but cannot make it work. I have finished up with E/Shou character.jpg/thumb/Shou character in words, which is how I understand the instructions, but the picture will not appear.

In the Upload window I get a message that " " is not an acceptable format although the pic is obviously a jpg.

How can I make sure I get the illustration in the article.?

John Battison

I fixed it - you needed to use a | not a / character. Wikipedia:Help desk is a better place to ask this kind of question (although I notice that the header on that page is terribly confusing!) Rmhermen 18:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is/Are There Bachelor(s) Degree(s) In The Science Of Writing Systems Or The Studies Of Writing Systems, Or Writing Systems Science Or Writing Systems Studies?

Danke.100110100 17:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Orthography or Writing Systems is a part of linguistics. You would likely take your BA is linguistics and perhaps you can find an MA or PhD in Orthography. --Justanother 19:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, try this question over at the language desk where people expert in that topic answer questions. -THB 21:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Natrual instinct of a right hander

I would appreicate any input to my question. I have been accused of pushing someone. This person is flat out lieing. The Police report states that I extended my "left" arm, and put my "left" hand on his chest and pushed him. I'm right handed, and have argued that I would NEVER use my "left" arm & hand due to my strength and coordination is in my "right." Does anyone out there have a thought in how I may possibly prove my theory to my Attorney????

Joy Justen

Sorry, but it does not take a lot of talent to push someone with your "off" hand. That defense would only work if they said you did something with your left hand that requires a lot of dexterity. Pushing requires almost zero dexterity. I assume, of course, that your left arm is not deformed, injured, or otherwise handicapped. --Justanother 19:36, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

In a situation like that, it is common to push with the non-dominant hand, holding the dominant hand in reserve to strike a blow. -THB 21:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, your attorney likely has a lot more experience with this sort of thing. If you have witnesses, it would be helpful. If not, it will be your word against the other person's. I have served on juries and it is quite easy to tell who is lying on the witness stand. Just stick to the complete truth. -THB 21:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Is it a crime to push someone? Where is this taking place? --Lambiam ^Talk 21:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe she was wearing a mask!? But seriously these days people just love to take others to court. Agression in any form towards any person can probably be drawn out to assault and battery, especially for example if the person fell down afterwards and bruised themselves. On the other hand, Joy may only be telling part of the story, in which left- and right-handedness will be trivial. Hyenaste ^(tell) 22:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Pushing someone is assault and battery. -THB 22:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Pushing someone is battery. In order to be assault, you need to first go 'I'm gonna push you!'. Depending, of course, on your location. --Mnem e son 22:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

WHAT COUNTRY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? Laws differ significantly between countries. Aaadddaaammm 00:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well to be fair he wasn't asking about the law, just about whether a person would ever instincively use his off hand to do something like that. -Elmer Clark 00:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

btw, Joy is more likely to be a female than a male. JackofOz 07:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

One thing that might be of importance here is how much deliberation there was (suposed to be). I can imagine that in certain circumstances, if someone pushed someone on impulse, it would be odd for them to not use their 'strong' arm. But I suppose it would have to have been a (supposd) reflex. If that is part of, or follows from, your accusers' reasoning, then you might try that approach. You might ask a psychologist. Or maybe a biologist? DirkvdM 09:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

We also need to know the circumstances.If you pushed someone because they were waving around a gun or a machete or something similar or they were running amok in the street then that's the sort of thing you'll want to mention in your police report....Lemon martini 09:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't rightie fighters "Jab with the left, punch with the right?" So one might grab the target with the left hand and punch them with the right, or the push might have been in the nature of a jab, which in the case discussed was not followed by the punch. He would only have to use the stronger arm for the initial push or poke if there were no intent of following up with a stronger blow from the stronger arm. Sometimes when a dispute turns physical, one may poke the other aggressively in the chest, even with an extended finger, perhaps as a provocation to elicit them "throwing the first punch" so any resulting mayhem is "the other's fault." Moral of the story: keep your hands to yourself and stay out of the other's personal space. Edison 16:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sex on the movie sets

Do stars have sex on the set when the role requires ? How is Nip Tuck different from porn or is there any kind of rationality between impatience ?

Or is it the consequence of lack of constant application of the mind?

The only confirmed case I'm aware of is The Brown Bunny. There have been a few other cases where actors who were supposed to be faking a scene have been alleged to get carried away. But largely actors report the whole business to be excruciatingly embarrassing and uncomfortable and not sexy at all. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

There have been quite a few actually, see List of mainstream films with unsimulated sex. Dismas|^(talk) 21:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

See Pornography. Pornography has the primary intention of causing sexual arousal. Nip Tuck may qualify as soft porn.

Hmm, List of mainstream films with unsimulated sex is very short on references - many of the movie articles are red, and the random couple that I checked don't mention the supposed sex. As many pertain to living actors, if we apply WP:LIVING#Remove unsourced or poorly sourced controversial material properly that article would be gutted. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I also wonder how this relates to the American Dream and how can one draw the line between high levels of impatience for desires and self confidence, as well as cures for sexual dysfunction. --Lambiam ^Talk 21:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't start it... ;) 惑乱分からん 22:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Its oft been rumoured that the sex scene in Don't Look Now was not simulated. Unsurprisingly, every one involved denies it. Rockpocket 06:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The angle of the shots makes it impossible to tell whether there's any penetration involved, though, so I seriously doubt it. Also, the scene is just a few minutes long, intercut with scenes allegedly before and after the act, and rather confusing overall. Don't watch the movie simply for that. (It was kind of shocking at the time, though, when the major porn wave wouldn't arrive until a few years later...) The movie also feels quite dated. 惑乱分からん 12:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Shortbus has unsimulated sex, but it is very uncommon in mainstream US (or more accurately, English-language) films. Anchoress 07:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gupta

What possible ethnic background could a person with the last name Gupta have? Hustle 23:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Our Gupta has lots of info. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

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