Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 October 23

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[edit] October 23

[edit] Strange battleship-like game...

Does anyone know of this game, or what its name is?: You start with a square grid and someone hides a under one of the squares. You try and guess the square, but if you get it wrong, they have to tell you the distance between them and your guess. Is there a specific name for this? 68.39.174.238 00:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like the Minesweeper game that's included with every copy of Microsoft Windows and some Linux distros, although the aim is not to click on the hidden "mine". --Canley 02:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't really sound like Minesweeper to me (the numbers on the squares don't indicate distance to mines but number of adjacent mines, and there are far more than one mine hidden), but I don't have any idea as to what it could be. -Elmer Clark 02:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't imagine it would be a very long game - you could locate any spot within three guesses... BenC7 05:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Or even two.  --LambiamTalk 07:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
There was a sort of 3D Battleship-like game called Sub Search, could that be it ? As I recall, instead of just a "hit" or "miss", as in Battleship, they also had a "near miss", when you were within one grid space of hitting the sub, in any direction. StuRat 18:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Wumpus? User:Zoe|(talk) 21:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't think so, since you didn't have to move on the board, you could randomly pick squares and had more then 1 chance. If you want to play, it's part of Intel's latest attempt at viral marketing. 68.39.174.238 03:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] searching a link on Product review page

Hi there,

I am searching a page where I can R&D on product also can Review, Test & provide comments on software OR products are added in wikipedia site.

please help me in the same.

Your request is not quite clear, but in any case Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a product review site.  --LambiamTalk 12:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
But a link to a product review site, from an article about that product, might be OK. StuRat 04:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hindu fasting calculation

Need information on Hindu fasting. The type of fasting, Why fasting is important in spiritual mean, Meaning of punnya in fasting, If man do fasting will punnya divide in me & my wife, Rules for punnya

If our articles on fasting and Hinduism don't help you, I suggest you ask your guru. You wife must do her own fasting.--Shantavira 13:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
His wife is already pretty fast. I couldn't resist. Scared another one away... X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve) 07:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RMS Titanic

I have a few questions which relate to the doomed ocean liner, RMS Titanic. The first question is, why is the stern section so much more damaged than the bow? The second pertains to the forward grand staircase, who designed it, and was it custom built for the Titanic- and the Olympic I believe. Thirdly, on the film, the forward most chimney stack appears to collapse because the wires - at least thats what I think they are - collapsed; what held the funnel on. Penultimately, how much would a ship like Titanic cost to build today? And are there any projects that seek to rebuild the ship, or possibly even raise the wreckage? I apologise for such a loaded question. Ahadland 15:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I can answer one or two of the questions:
  • The bow was lighter than the stern, which contained the massive engines. The bow sank once it filled with water and broke from the stern. Having water inside and outside meant the pressure was equalized, so no crushing occurred as it sank. The stern, being much heavier, was able to sink while still containing lots of air. This meant that once it sank to a sufficient depth, the pressure from the outside water caused it to implode. It also then was heavier than the bow, so sank rapidly, imbedding itself into the bottom and causing further damage.
  • I believe there was a plan to raise the Titanic using balloons filled with air. However, this was never done.
See our RMS Titanic article for more info. StuRat 18:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


The Titanic can never be raised; it's in such bad shape that (according to Eaton and Haas in Titanic: Triumph and Tragedy) it would fall into a million pieces if anybody even tried. *Nothing* would work. It's just too fragile and too badly damaged.
Titanic is also only one of a dozen or more ships of its age and size that are lying on the ocean floor. Her sister ship Britannic is one of them, as is the Lusitania, the Empress of Ireland (sitting on the bed of the St. Lawrence very near to Quebec City) and the Wilhelm Gustloff, on which over eight thousand people are thought to have died. If somebody wanted to raise a ship, they would likely look at one of these, since they're better situated and in better condition.
As to recreating her - Titanic is a very romantic ship. People think that because of the hullaballoo surrounding her sinking and because of the beauty of the decor in the first-class sections, she must have been the greatest ship that ever floated. Not so. The First Class accommodations were luxurious *for their time*, but there were only three bathtubs available for all the First Class men (and no showers - despite what was shown on that odious 1996 TV mini-series, Titanic had no showers). Only a handful of cabins had private washrooms. The engines created enormous amounts of smoke compared to modern ships, and a lot of that descended onto those walking the decks. Only some staterooms had electric heaters; there was no central heating except to the common areas. The lights in the cabin could be dim and flickered.
Many people would contest that, seeing as your giving a point of view, rather than fact
Quite frankly, the lowest-priced room on a Carnival Cruise Lines ship is probably more comfortable than a first-class room on Titanic was. Add to that the fact that you'd have to make significant changes to the ship to make it insurable and registerable under modern laws, and add to that the immense cost of all that First Class decor in a time when woodworkers, carpenters, etc. are paid a living wage (unlike 1910), and the idea of building a new Titanic as is becomes economically unfeasible. --Charlene 23:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't say it could never be raised. There are several strategies that could work:
  • Cut it into small pieces, raise them one at a time, then reassemble it at the surface.
  • Lower a rigid platform to the sea floor, "roll" it onto that (using balloons filled with air), then raise the platform.
  • Encase it in some type of rigid foam which will hold it together, then raise that.
Note that none of these approaches are practical with current financial and technological limitations, and there is also the "disturbing a grave site" aspect to be considered. However, it could be raised at some point in the future, if there is anything left to raise, by the time we are ready. StuRat 00:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
I used to be in to reading about the Titanic in my younger years. I recall that apparently the forward funnel of the Titanic was false and wasn't a functioning chimney, and in fact was used as storage, mainly for deckchairs. Although this doesn't say how it was attached it may explain the ease with which it broke.-Stubbly
  • Could anyone help with the Grand Staircase question? or the one about the collapsing smoke stack?
  • The smoke stacks aren't nearly as substantial as they appear. They are just thin sheet metal, so will even collapse under their own weight if laid on their sides, especially after they've had a chance to rust for years. StuRat 18:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Ye but Stu what made it collapse whilst the ship was sinking? Surely, as its portrayed in the film it wasnt just held on by cables?
The force of the water against the funnels would tear them off as it sank. This force is similar to air resistance, but much greater, due to the much greater density of water. StuRat 04:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So what about the Grand Staircase

Was it custom built or not and who designed it? Also was it made of real wood, and how much pressure would have been on the glass dome when it shattered

[edit] Franc value in 1910

What was the value of the French franc in 1910?

100 centimes, and the rate was quite constant during more than a century. -- DLL .. T 17:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
In the year 1913, it took 5.18 Old Francs to buy one U.S. Dollar. That would have been about 4.2 German Marks. One Franc of the year 1910 is equivalent to 3.39975 euros of 2005. [1] - Nunh-huh 18:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

When the French discuss money, is it always a franc discussion ? :-) StuRat 21:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

i'm sure francophiles always profit from such tête-a-têtes. - Nunh-huh 21:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Francly my dear, I don't give a damn. Clarityfiend 00:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Is every reference desk required by Law to have at least one noxious and silly conversation going at any one time?! 68.39.174.238 03:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The nerve of us! That's the job of Congress. Clarityfiend 16:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Ah, no, that's the beauty of free speech! Being allowed to be silly and annoying just for yourself... ;) 惑乱 分からん 22:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The value of the FF at that time was expressed in units of gold. The article French franc explains it well. -THB 03:44, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recommended Tenchi Muyo series?

As an otaku-in-training, I'm interested in getting into the Tenchi Muyo! anime. However, with the sheer number of TV series, OVA and related spin-offs out there, I'm not sure where to start. Can anyone please give me any recommendations on where to start, which series are the best and a recommended viewing order? Ppk01 17:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the OAV/OVA are the original. They go in order, and are the real timeline. The movies are also part of this timeline, I believe. Second came the TV series, which is also known as Tenchi Universe or Shin Tenchi or No Need for Tenchi in the U.S. (no need because every episode title start with No Need for...). This is a different timeline, and different histories for the characters. Then the third series is Tenchi in Tokyo, which is again a different timeline and different character histories. This one was also broadcast on TV and focuses more on romance than anything else. There's also GXP which has a relative of someone from Tenchi but doesn't really focus on the main cast, and I have not seen it. There are spin-offs like Magical Girl Pretty Sammy too, but that's like Card Captor Sakura, and I've never seen those either. Hope that helps. BTW, I like the original the most, including the character histories. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 23:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply! --Ppk01 23:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Venezuela in UN Security Council

What are the countries that are supporting Venezuela in its bid to obtain the non-permanent Latin American seat on the UN Security Council? -81.170.56.183 20:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

See 2006 United Nations Security Council election#Latin American and Caribbean seat and the links at the bottom of that page. User:Zoe|(talk)

[edit] California Real Estate Exam

What is the title or name of "the" exam to get a real estate license? Further, how long does it take to obtain such a license...could it be done in a few months?

On a slightly different tangent, I was curious, approximately what percentage of all people that are now around the age of 18 go to college?

ChowderInopa 20:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


To answer your first question, the article real estate broker explains that realtors in the United States generally go through two phases of licensing. This is also true in California. An entry-level realtor must first obtain a sales-agent license. According to this real estate school (which I found at random and which neither I nor Wikipedia endorse), a dedicated student can pass the exam for a sales-agent license after just two and a half weeks of study. After a realtor gains some experience, he or she can take the exam for a broker's license. You might find claims on the same website about the time needed to study for that exam. Another resource is the website of the California Department of Real Estate. Marco polo 21:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
As for the second, assuming you're in the US, the Census says that 35.1% of people 18-24 years old are enrolled in college or graduate school. If you click on the "Change geography" link in the light blue box in the upper left corner, you can view by state, by urban area, etc. (38.9% of 18-24 year olds in California go to college, for instance.) --ByeByeBaby 05:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about Music Production

When songs are recorded and sold on CD's, are the techies and "little guys" involved in their production paid royalties based on how big the song sells, or are they just paid a fixed rate no matter what? Thanks, anon.

Flat-fee plus the prestige of working with big artists (and the resume boost it could entail).--152.23.204.76 00:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
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