Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2007 January 8

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[edit] January 8

[edit] Expresscard graphics

Does anybody know of a graphics card that will plug right into a laptop expresscard/34 slot? I don't care how powerful it is, it only needs to support Mac OS X. And will the OS utilize the built in card and the new expresscard one at the same time? Thanks in advance. ryan 03:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Bit late, but yes. -- Kesh 20:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 3 monitors on a Radeon 9250 PCI 128 mb

I want to run two monitors as an extended desktop aswell as a TV as a mirror of either of these screens. I have a 17" Relysis TE770 on my VGA output, a 19" Proview PX-986N on the DVA output (through a VGA converter) and a TV on the S-Video cable.

In the: Display properties - Settings - Advanced - "ATi" Displays: I find a screen with four panels, each of which have an on (green) off (red) switch. When I turn on the second monitor, the TV turns off and vice versa. So I'm confused?

Is there any way to use all three screens? Aaron 04:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe most cards only have two render engines and therefore can only draw on two screens. Most cards only have one accelerated render engine too, I used to use a cad program and rendering on my second screen in real time was awful! I had to render on the primary screen. In short, I don't think you can get 3 screens going at the same time, the reason it has 3 sockets is just so you get a choice which output you want to use for your 2nd screen. Vespine 06:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I think you can have desktop across two screen plus a clone of one of the screens on your TV. It says that in my old Radeon 7500 card but I haven't tried. --antilivedT | C | G 05:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I was coming round to agreeing with Vespine, since most information suggests that. But then there are a few places that suggest you can squeeze a third monitor from your card if its a mirror exist. Antilived, or anyone, do you know how? Aaron 13:10, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I read that from the manual so I am pretty sure it works. But I neither have 2 computer monitors nor a TV that is close to my computer nor the Radeo 7500 itself so I can't possibly test it... --203.184.58.178 01:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC) antilivedT | C | G 01:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exit X Server in Kubuntu Edgy

I've been unable to exit the X server in Kubuntu Edgy. It seems to have an over-zealous auto-recovery feature that prevents even manual exit. Does anyone know how I can do this? Superm401 - Talk 05:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Most likely, you are in runlevel 5 (X-window) and you want to be runlevel 3 (command prompt). Change it with "telinit 3" at the command prompt. --Kainaw (talk) 05:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify, I'm in the full KDE environment. I tried that under Konsole (an xterm), and it had no effect. Usually, it will crash then reload automatically but that did nothing. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Superm401 - Talk 05:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Have you tried Ctr-Alt-Backspace, or failing that, kill -9'ing the X server? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 149.135.97.128 (talk) 06:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC).
Ctrl+Alt+Backspace usually just restarts the X server in Ubuntu versions, so I'd recommend switching to another virtual terminal and killing the X server: sudo killall -9 X. --wj32 talk | contribs 06:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
How do I do that? Is it Ctrl+Alt+F#? That just gives me a black screen. The virtual terminal doesn't load. Superm401 - Talk 08:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Just do that from an xterm; who cares, you're killing the X server. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 149.135.97.128 (talk) 12:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC).
Well, sudo killall -9 Xorg still just restarts it. That's the issue. Superm401 - Talk 23:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Have you tried finding out the parent process of the X server? Maybe the parent process is the process which keeps on restarting the server. --wj32 talk | contribs 00:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Could be. How do I do that? :) Superm401 - Talk 01:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
It's gdm that does the X restarting. Press Ctrl+Alt+F1 or something similar, and type sudo killall -9 gdm. Then try killing X. --wj32 talk | contribs 03:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm using Kubuntu so, it's apparently kdm. As I said, Ctrl+Alt+F1 just gives me a black screen. I'll try sudo killall -9 kdm in Konsole. 04:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
That test worked. Then I tried two things. First, sudo killall -9 Xorg. This just freezes completely, still within X and KDE and everything. Then, I restarted, did sudo killall -9 Xorg again, then did Ctrl-Alt-Backspace. That exits X Server and doesn't restart, but it just gives me a black screen. There's no terminal. Superm401 - Talk 05:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Then, I wouldn't know. Pretty weird that Ctrl+Alt+F1 gives a blank screen, though. --wj32 talk | contribs 06:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I take it you're not actually using Kubuntu Edgy? :) Superm401 - Talk 07:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm using Ubuntu Edgy :):) --wj32 talk | contribs 08:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
No problem. I'll try to remember to post here if I ever figure it out. Superm401 - Talk 08:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps you should try the open(1) command to start something on one of your other VTs? --Tardis 17:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I tried:
root@matthew-e1505:/data# openvt bash
It just beeps at me. Then I tried:
root@matthew-e1505:/data# openvt -c 3
It says:
VT 3 is in use; command aborted
use `openvt -f' to force
I tried it for all the other numbers, up to:
root@matthew-e1505:/data# openvt -f -c 20
It says they're all in use. Any idea what would cause this? When I try to force it, I just get the beep again. Superm401 - Talk 23:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Good catch noticing that openvt is the modern version. My guess is that you have no VTs allocated; it appears that chvt can create them for you, but I don't know if that's precisely your problem. You could also try using lsof to see if something really has them open. --Tardis 15:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
The man page clued me in. I tried chvt 3, and I got only a black screen. Thanks for the suggestion. I've submitted a support request at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/3119 , if anyone's interested. Superm401 - Talk 21:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Files Not Accessible

I have a folder on my hdd named 'C:\Program Files\Ark'. I call is Ark because anything there gets moved to my laptop. When I put additional folders in there containing files, I am usually able to access them. Why shouldn't I? But, the problem is that sometimes, certain folders instantly stop working. Windows sees them as empty, 0 bytes, 0 files, yet I clearly have files in there. When I try to open these folders, I get an error "C:\Program Files\Ark\name" is not accessible. Access is denied. I cannot open them, I cannot delete them, I cannot copy them. It's very frustrating to know that there are files there, but I can't get to them. My computer is a year old this month, running Windows XP Home, and is therefore in need of a reformatting. I'd like to get these files out if possible --Russoc4 17:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Make sure you are logged on as an "administrator". --17:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Aye. There is only one account, and it's considered the computer administrator, but do you want me to log on as the "Administrator" in Safe mode? --Russoc4 18:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
You can also hit CTRL+ALT+DEL once or twice at the welcome screen, and get a real login prompt. Administrator will be the user name, and the password will be the administrator password you (hopefully) set when you installed windows, if you didnt set one, you can try leaving it blank, but sometimes the security policy will not allow the admin to log in with a blank password. It could also be a bad sector or file system error, have you tried running chkdsk? Cyraan 19:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
this only works on windows xp-pro, windows xp home will not allow you to log into the administrator account in normal mode due to account restrictions. You can log into safe mode (hit F8 before windows boots, select safe mode). in safe mode you can log into administrator, and also have access to the security tab under any folder/file properties (right click a folder and go to properties, click on security). This tab allows you to change the security permissions on folders and files, the OP would want to add "administrators" (plural) to his ark folder, allowing him access to them with Full control selected, and no deny permissions. If for some reason he's using a limited "User" account, he'd want to add "Users" to the list (or go to control panel/users and make his account an admin account). To recursively change all permissions for all files/folders within that folder, under the security tab after adding "administrators" you need to click on "Advanced" then click on "Administrators" under the permissions tab, click edit, make sure it says "apply to: This folder, subfolders and files" and make sure full control is selected under allow, with no deny options checked. hit OK once, on this screen select "replace permission entries on all child objects within entires here that apply to child objects", hit apply and the computer will set the permissions to every subfolder/file (make take a few minutes). The security permissions denying you access to a folder is why its listed as 0 bytes 0 files, once you allow yourself access you can correctly see everything. As Wj32 said try not to program files or windows folders to store things--PiTHON 02:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I ran chkdsk. It found and fixed errors at startup, but I didn't do the deep scan to fix bad sectors. Should I try that? How long might it take on an 80GB hdd that is 75% free space? --Russoc4 20:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Forever :D Actually a few hours depending on your PC. The free space doesn't help as it mainly checks the physical drive rather than the files. --h2g2bob 20:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I just ran it. Only took about 30 mins, and I still cannot access the folders. --Russoc4 21:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem solved! I was able to cut and paste the entire Ark folder to my desktop, where it works fine. Go figure. I'll be reformatting soon to prevent such a problem in the future. Thanks all. --Russoc4 21:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

You really shouldn't use system folders for storing your own personal data, because they are usually only writable by Administrators and SYSTEM. I think what happened was that somehow, the folder you created had everything-permission for Administrators, but the contents were nothing-permission for Administrators. --wj32 talk | contribs 00:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
As a side note, there is a way to log on as SYSTEM. --Russoc4 15:56, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Yep, psexec. --wj32 talk | contribs 01:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boolean Algebra

I am curious how a slide show email I received contained snapshots of websites I visit...and new shap snots would be shown here and there while others repeated. What is going on here? I'm told Boolean algebra bla bla bla. Creepy-cool if you ask me. Jelizbeth 20:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I assume this is an attachment to the email. What type of file is it (PowerPoint, Script, Screensaver, Program, etc?) It may be a bit late, but never open attachments from people you don't know, or if the message or attachment looks suspicious. Opening some email attachments can install viruses or other malware. I don't think boolean algebra has anything to do with websites or snapshots. --h2g2bob 20:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I suspect it was a program and it just read your web cache/temporary internet files. You may wish to run disk cleanup (I'm assuming you're using Windows) and see how much space they take up. 68.39.174.238 14:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese character set for Mozilla Firefox

I'm using the Mozilla Firefox browser, and a lot of special characters show up on my screen as question marks (?). I've looked online for character set extensions, but everything I found was... Greek to me, as it were. Can anybody here help me modify my browser to see these special characters? -GTBacchus(talk) 22:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

As far as I remember I didn't have question marks, instead they were empty rectangles, but it's possible it's the same problem. The solution I found was to go into Control Panel, then Regional and Language Options, then the Languages tab and then clicked the tick box for East Asian language packs. This does require the CD/DVD for your OS, and is of course presuming you're using Windows. --Kiltman67 22:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I've sometimes found that installing the relevant font helps. If you're running Linux, I recently installed a Debian 4 beta, and found that all sorts of odd character sets worked; it apparently comes with all those fonts. But that's a lot of work just to get some languages working. Golwengaud 23:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
If you're using windows, you'll need your windows CD in the drive, go to Control Panel->Regional and Language Options, select the Languages tab, and check "Install files for East Asian Languages", and hit Apply/OK. I think you'll need to restart when its done, but this is how I do it, and have never had a problem with Japanese characters in Firefox. Cyraan 23:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I turned on East Asian languages in the control panel, and now it's working! Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. -GTBacchus(talk) 23:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
What if you didn't get a Windows CD with your computer, but it came preloaded? User:Zoe|(talk) 00:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
You should be able to get the fonts from someone else who has them installed on there computer. I can't remember the exact names of them but you should be able to find the names somewhere. --Kiltman67 01:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Windows came pre-loaded on my computer, and it still worked. When I ticked the East Asian languages box, it copied some files from somewhere to somewhere else, and after a restart, all was well. I don't understand what it did, but I don't understand Japanese either. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Cyraan! I was having the same problem; I didn't know there was such an easy solution! (Mine also had it already loaded, strangely. Why have it on your hard drive if you're not using it? Is seeing ???? all the time an advantage?) - Rainwarrior 05:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
No problem, odd though, Ive always had to pop the CD in if i didn't choose to on install, it may just be something the OEM does if you have a Dell or some other pre-built PC. Cyraan 01:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Some companies like Dell put what seems to be the main part of the Windows CD (the I386 folder) in the I386 folder on your hard drive, then set a registry entry to say that your hard drive is your CD. —AySz88\^-^ 03:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advanced? API? programming

Hi guys... I can program in several languages (self-taught) but after these years I still don't know how to program what I really would like to. What I would like to be able to program is something to automatize tasks and increase my productivity. This may sound somewhat weird, but my problem is that I haven't found any source about this topic. Actually, I mean something as simple but as hard to program for me such as a random article opener. For example, I'd like to have a process that, when I press E+left click in "Random article" say 5-6 windows will pop-up (in tabs if possible). A possible improvement for this would be to avoid stubs or articles about towns in the USA... How can I learn to do all this kind of things? Sorry but I couldn't be more specific for my question. Thanks in advance. --Taraborn 23:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

You would need some kind of API for web pages, so try Mozilla. If you're using Windows, you would need to hook (I think) something to do with keypresses (?) and mouse clicks (?). Then, get your program to download the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random 6 times. See if the HTML for a stub is in the code, and if it is, download another random page. Then, if it passes the test, open it up in your browser (find out the title of the page first). --wj32 talk | contribs 00:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, if you add the below to User:Taraborn/monobook.js, it should do about what you wanted. Then, in Mozilla Firefox, goto Preferences, Tabs, and choose "New pages should be opened in a new tab". Of course, this will make all new pages open in tabs, but to my knowledge there's no way to programmatically force Mozilla to open a particular link in a tab. I don't know what you mean E+left click, so I assumed that you meant the "e" key was actually down. If the "e" key is down, it will open 6 new tabs (provided you have new windows opening in tabs). If it isn't, the default single random page will load:
function checkRandomKey(e)
{
  var code = e.keyCode;
  var char = String.fromCharCode(code);
  if(char.toUpperCase() == "E")
    randomKeyDown = !randomKeyDown;
  return true;
}

function openRandomPages(e)
{
  if(randomKeyDown)
    {
      var fullPath = wgServer + wgArticlePath;
      var randomPage = fullPath.replace(/\$1/, "Special:Random");
      for(var i = 0; i < 6; i++)
        window.open(randomPage);
      e.preventDefault();
      randomKeyDown = false;
    }
}
var randomKeyDown;
function setupRandomPages()
{
  randomKeyDown = false;
  var randomLink = document.getElementById("n-randompage").firstChild;
  window.addEventListener("keydown", checkRandomKey, false);
  window.addEventListener("keyup", checkRandomKey, false);
  randomLink.addEventListener("click",openRandomPages,false); 
}

addOnloadHook(setupRandomPages);
Just fool around with this stuff and you'll learn it gradually. I think Greasemonkey will help you out with these types of problems. I use it all the time. Also, Quirksmode is very good. P.S. Your quote "I'm addicted to reading Wikipedia, it's the only encyclopedia that grows faster than you can read :D" has been added to my list. :) Superm401 - Talk 03:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much to you two. Your script, Superm401, works perfectly :D, although my browser's cache was a bit annoying at first... P.S. I'm very glad you liked that quote :D --Taraborn 12:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] upload text only format

I want to upluad text only and cannot find which format is acceptable beside JPEG —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mrheine (talk • contribs) 23:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

You can open your text file and copy the contents into a wikipedia editing page, but the wikimedia software will not allow you upload text. Droud 00:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
See Help:Editing. Superm401 - Talk 03:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What knowlage do i thirst for?

Well, recently, i have taken up the habit of learning web programing. i have Learned HTML, CSS, and JavaScript down pat, and working on learning DOM.

but I'm not satisfied with these. what i want to do is create a page that could be Wikied. Like have the client type something into an input form, and when submitted, affects the page for the rest of the world. it seems that i can't do that with the Languages i have learned thusfar, so... what language should i learn, and if possible, what would be a good site for learning it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xiaden (talk • contribs) 23:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

You would need a server-side language like PHP. To do that, you would need your own server software, like Apache. Then, you would need to install PHP support. You can install MediaWiki on your own server, too. --wj32 talk | contribs 00:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like you need storage and manipulation of data. PHP and MySQL are good technologies to start with. Droud 00:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
If you are just playing around, there are some free sites that have PHP/MySQL available. If you are building an application for a company of some sort, you will want a more respectable service. They can be dirt cheap ($5/month) to extremely expensive ($500/month). What you are paying for is the level of service. The most expensive ones have people on call 24 hours a day to answer any question you have about PHP, MySQL, or managing your server. --Kainaw (talk) 03:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
So, i should learn how to program with PHP, or MySQL. where would these sites be located? and where can i learn the coding for them? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xiaden (talk • contribs) 06:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC).
No use programming if you can't search the web! :) --wj32 talk | contribs 06:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The software which runs Wikipedia is available as free software. See MediaWiki (website). MediaWiki is written in PHP, and uses MySQL as a database.
A simpler alternative is to use Wikia and create a free wiki there - see wikia:www. --h2g2bob 13:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

PHP can be learned from php.net, although you might want to consider buying a book on it. A beginner's book on PHP should also have a few chapters on MySQL; the online mysql docs tend to be highly technical, I don't recommend using them for learning --frothT C 20:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

PHP needs to run off of a web server, as someone mentioned. Just figure out how to install one (Apache HTTP Server is the most common free one) on your local machine and you can play around in PHP for free (and much quicker than you could uploading scripts to a server). If you know Javascript already it shouldn't be too hard — the syntax is fairly similar in most cases. Download the PHP manual to your hard drive as well — it is an invaluable resource since there are a million functions with their own special syntaxes and there is no reason to try and memorize them all. --24.147.86.187 15:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
hmm... is there anything that doesn't require downloading, as i am learning most of these languages in school and would not like to download anything to a local machine...Xiaden 14:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] what languages are recognized by deterministic pushdown automata (DPDAs)?

Is there a name for the set of languages that are recognized by deterministic pushdown automata (DPDAs)? I know that DPDAs are strictly more powerful than finite automata (FAs), so the languages they recognize must be a strict superset of the regular languages. I also know that DPDAs are strictly less powerful than the nondeterministic pushdown automata (NPDAs), so the languages they recognize must be a strict subset of the context-free languages. But I haven't seen the name of any set of languages that fits between regular and context-free. --Spoon! 00:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

They are just context-free languages, although they could be called transitional context-free languages due to their strict bounding between regular and context-free. Droud 01:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
No, DPDAs do not accept all context-free languages, although they accept some (for example, they accept all regular languages, which are also context-free). The proof isn't trivial, but the theorem is mentioned here. As you (User:Spoon!) correctly state, DPDAs are strictly less powerful than NPDAs (unlike the better-known case with NFAs, which although appearing much more complex, have the same power as DFAs). There's no actual name for the class of languages accepted by DPDAs, at least as far as I know (which surely doesn't mean one doesn't exist; my knowledge of CS theory, outside my actual area, is limited by a couple of grad classes and some out-of-interest reading). Note that it's not at all surprising that a particular class of languages has no name: there's an infinite number of language classes between two adjacent Chomsky types. For example, between type-2 and type-3 we have all a class containing all CF languages save for one (you get to choose that one, and this already gives you infinite number of classes); all CF languages save for two (same thing here), ..., all regular languages plus one CF language (that you also get to choose). All of these classes reside strictly between regular and CF languages, and there's "many" infinities of them. IgorSF 10:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overclock lock?

I couldn't find any information on this. Is it possible to lock a graphics card from being overclocked, such as one can do to a cpu? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.231.205.94 (talk) 03:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC).


Yes. To put it simply, a graphics card consists of a GPU, which is just a specialized CPU for processing graphics and dedicated RAM for storing that graphic information. If you added a component on that board that would only allow the card's GPU and memory to function at a certain clock rate, it would effectively lock the graphics card to a specified clock rate. —Mitaphane talk 03:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irritating loading thing

This is new, I think. On firefox, whenever I used to click on a link to a music file, for instance on allmusic.com, it'd transfer me to a blank page (annoying but ok) and open the file. Now, it just transfers me to the blank page, and I can't figure out how to get the damn music clip to play. any suggestions? I tried messing around with my settings in this extension I've had for a while, Tab Mix Plus, because I thought that it might be responsible, but no setting seems to be anything that'd make a difference. This is annoying, because I'm trying to figure out whether to buy cds, and I can't here samples of the music. Only sites with their own players work (except amazon.com). If something needs wmp or realplayer, it just won't load. Thanks for any help, 70.108.219.115 05:10, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Try uninstalling then reinstalling both those programs (Windows Media and Realplayer) first. Look for any options to enable "Netscape" plugins. Superm401 - Talk 05:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Could it have something to do with having recently installed VLC media player? I'm trying to figure out when the change occured. I don't think it's a problem with either wmd or realplayer, but rather firefox trying to open them. Because when I click on one of these links, it opens the blank page quickly, says "done" in the bottom left quickly, and then doesn't have any sign that anything is loading at all. Maybe I should reinstall firefox or delete tab mix plus, which I think i downloaded around the time this stuff stopped working. Good ideas? Bad? Part of the trouble with uninstalling and reinstalling both players is that each new version comes with new professional spyware type crap I have to delete. Anything I could try before that is preferable, and I think might actually work better. 70.108.219.115 06:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

You can try uninstalling VLC first. Make sure firefox isn't running during the uninstallation. I doubt Tab Mix Plus has anything to do with it. Superm401 - Talk 07:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll give that a try. 70.108.219.115 07:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yaaaayy! Uninstalling VLC did it. Thanks for talking me through this. 70.108.219.115 07:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Matlab figures to SVG

Is there an easy and free way to save matlab figures in the svg format? deeptrivia (talk) 05:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

A quick google search turns up this page, which looks like what you want. The same google search actually also turned up this wikipedia image (damn we have a high PageRank, our images are on the first pages of a google search!). It was made by User:Nmnogueira, so a good idea would probably be to ask him/her. Oskar 22:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Where did you think all that donation money went? :p --frothT C 03:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
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