Talk:Red Arrows

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The article on RAF Scampton says it has been mothballed; if that is correct, are the Red Arrows still based there? -- S

RAF Scampton is still (As of 19/07/2006) a active RAF station and yes the Red Arrows are still based there. You can see them practicing over lincoln quite often, and get a great view from the track that runs along the airbases fence, though the Military police do tend to play a visit to make sure your behaving. -- SimonD

Contents

[edit] number of shows?

The article says that the Red Arrows have flown in 50 countries and then later that they have flown in 50 countries in their Hawks. Both can of course be true, but it just seems a bit of a coincidence. Are these the correct totals?

I would not consider it a big coincidence, and official webpage specifically says:

Since being introduced into service with the Red Arrows, the Hawk has taken the Team on tours of Eastern and Western Europe, the USA, the Middle and Far East, Africa and Australia - in all the Red Arrows have displayed in 50 countries.

however, to be on safe side, we could remove "in their hawks" from second reference. thanks for your modifications - Bluemoose 20:17, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Little Rissington?

The Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team (RAFAT), the Red Arrows, was originally based at RAF Fairford, then a satellite unit of the Central Flying School. The team later moved to RAF Kemble, and after RAF Scampton became the CFS Headquarters, the Red Arrows moved there in 1983.

This has got to be incorrect or incomplete. They were based at RAF Little Rissington for many years, most definitely in 1971-72, though not sure when they first were there or when they left. Perhaps the reference to Fairford is incorrect, since I don't recall them ever being based there. I know this because as a schoolboy I lived in Tewkesbury, and the team used to practice over that area frequently. One of the teachers at the school had a husband who was a pilot in the team, and on one occasion they performed a private display right over our school for her birthday! That was pretty special (especially to a 9yo!) She told us that her husband and the team was at Rissington. This is also confirmed by an article in Aeroplane Monthly that I have from around 1973 that discusses the Arrows and the operations at Rissington.Graham 23:43, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

From the official page:

The Red Arrows began work in late 1964 to prepare for the 1965 Air Display Season. The squadron was officially constituted on 1 March 1965. The first official display was at RAF Little Rissington in the Cotswolds on 6 May 1965. This was a special display to introduce the Team to the media

and

The Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, the Red Arrows, was initially based at RAF Fairford,

So there seems to be some confusion, it is possible they used rissington but were never based there. Martin - The non-blue non-moose 00:00, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'll try and find that old magazine (it's at home, buried in a huge pile somewhere) and re-read it. Graham 00:16, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
OK, I have located the magazine I was thinking of - it's "Air Extra", issue number 7, published by Ian Allan on January 25th, 1975. Cost 35p! (In case anyone wants to cross-check this!). The issue features four RAF airfields in detail, and one of them is Little Rissington. In fact there's a wealth of information here, certainly enough to have a crack at the Rissington article itself. As the home base of the Central Flying School from 1947 to ??? (after 1975, since the article was current at the time it was written), it has also been the home base of any number of aerobatic display teams - The Skylarks (DH Chipmunks), The Sparrows (Jet Provost), The Redskins (Jet Provost), CFS aerobatic team (Meteor T7s), Red Pelicans (Jet Provost), the "Vintage Pair" (Vampire & Meteor), and of course the Red Arrows (Gnats). However, while the CFS itself is based at Rissington, it does mention that the Yellowjacks originated at a FTS base, RAF Valley in Anglesey. The Yellowjack's Gnats and some pilots were moved to the CFS in '65 when the Red Arrows was first formed. The article suggests that the Gnats did fly into Rissington frequently for maintenance and general training work but were generally stationed at nearby Kemble. Other CFS units were also pushed over to Kemble because the runway length at Rissington was a bit restricted - the Gnats could get in and out but Hunters couldn't. Anyway, this sounds like it probably clears up the mystery, since Red Arrows pilots are students of the CFS, so their "home base" would be considered Rissington, even if in fact the aircraft are flown from Kemble. However there is no mention of Fairford at all, so I think the mention of Fairford in the article could well be incorrect. Wasn't Fairford a USAF base during that time anyway?
Incidentally this article also highlights another small error. Not all the other teams were disbanded when the Arrows were formed. The Red Pelicans continued until 1973, according to the magazine. Graham 12:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Since there has been no comment, I have changed the article so it is in line with what this magazine article reported. If that wakes up anyone who wants to take issue with it, then that's probably a good thing! Graham 01:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Arrows at Little Rissy

Just a note to try and help clear up the confusion about the Reds time at Rissy. Although the team aircraft were based at Kemble for day to day operational flying and First and Second line technical cover, Central Flying School at Little Rissington was the overall HQ base for personnel accommodation (Messes, Medical centres, station duties etc!) and Winter Servicing. Three aircraft at a time were sent up to Rissy at the end of the season for Third line (deep) servicing which took about 6 weeks each to complete. The other aircraft still at Kemble were used to start training up the 3 new pilots for the next season. I was privileged to have been at Rissy and Kemble, apart from a couple of short tours to far-flung places, from 1970 to 1981 as an aircraft electrician and was with the travelling team for the 78, 79 and 80 seasons which included the changeover from the Gnat to the Hawks at the end of 1979. My first seasons secondary duty was on the coloured smoke team so if anybody has blue or red spatters on their stuff from those days......... Sorry!!! If anyone wants to get in touch about those days please leave a message.

Regards, Mikeinfrance

Hi Mike, thanks for that. It confirms the above, which pleases me no end! By the way, if you indent a paragraph it gets formatted within a box like computer code, so I have taken the liberty of correcting that. Graham 23:44, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] See alsos

It seems to me that a lot of the see alsos - specifically, the ones to the foreign aerobatic teams - are not really relevant, as we have the template down at the bottom which links to all of them. With the exception of the Black Arrows, none of them are particularly more relevant than any of the others already in the template, so I think they ought to be removed. --Scott Wilson 20:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Costs of hiring

Quoting: In 1977, a charge of £200 was introduced for a Red Arrows display. By 2000, the charge had become £2,000 (including VAT and insurance). To date (April 2005), the Red Arrows have performed over 3,400 times.[1]

This fact is according to somebody I know is very much innaccurate as, in 2001, the cost including tax is over £7000 and that exclude insurance and other costs. Willirennen 21 July 2006

That would make sense though, inflation/insurance costs have been a lot since 1977. Of course it would be great to have some referenced up-to-date info. Martin 14:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
This quote is not helpful. Who is charging whom for what? Can I hire the Red Arrows for my birthday party for £2,000? This makes no sense at all. --Yath 22:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
There is a charge made by the Red Arrows for displays, whether they would display for your birthday has nothing to do with this, as they clearly accept/reject requests on a range of criteria. Martin 22:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
It still doesn't say who charges the amount, and to whom. It's an unconnected statement that will only make readers scratch their heads. --Yath 00:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
It now says a charge was introduced "by the MOD", clearly the charge is going to be for the organisation requesting the display. Martin 08:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

In reply to Yath, you'll be pleased to hear, you can arrange a flyby by the Red Arrows for free! There is a form on their website. Just fill it in, and if they're nearby they'll divert their route to fly over your event. Go check it out for yourself!

[edit] other air force demonstration teams

The article says the USA equivalent is The Blue Angels. The Blue Angels are the US Navy aviation demonstration team. The US Air Force demonstration team is the Thunderbirds.

Is there a list of shows online anywhere? Does anyone have the date of the 1973 Lisbon display? Bastie 08:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

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