Talk:Recurring weapons and items from The Legend of Zelda series

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This article was nominated for deletion on 20 January 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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This article is part of WikiProject The Legend of Zelda series, an attempt to improve Wikipedia's articles related to The Legend of Zelda series. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

[edit] Article

This is a mass merge between various Zelda articles, which individually needed much clean-up work. I found that the articles and the Zelda series uses reoccuring weapons between iterations (such as the Bow and arrow) and thought a neat and mass merge would be appropriate, taking in consideration the outline in WP:FICT, which encourages the listing of such things.

This list is not complete. Minor weapons and items could use inclusion. -Zero^Talk 16:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Including all that makes the page too long and clutered. The Rings section was fine where it was. You need to ask before making major changes like that. -- Jelly Soup 18:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course not. Be WP:BOLD. I spied a minor page that could use merging. That's what we do at wikipedia. If things are waited about and discussed all the time, nothing gets done. -Zero^Talk 18:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You spied a minor page that you THOUGHT could use merging. A quick check will show you that you are incorrect. I solved the little problem by being WP:BOLD. -- Jelly Soup 19:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Consequently, I solved the problem by placing it on articles for deletion. -Randall Brackett 23:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I give up, do as you wish. There is no reason for me to fight with an idiot(s). -- Jelly Soup 00:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe this article has some use...for instance, I was once considering creating a tabletop game based on Zelda (note that this does NOT require participants to play the video game). Having a nice little summary of the major items in the series was quite useful, because what I wanted was a convenient list -- NOT a game guide with stats and exact locations within individual games. However, in its current form this article is not useful. It goes into too much depth about minor pieces of information that are only important while playing an individual game. If a non-Zelda player came here, what they SHOULD be seeing is a list of the most significant recurring items such as the boomerang, the Master Sword, bow and arrows, bombs, and a few others. One look at the outline at the top of the article should explain in a nutshell why this is not useful to anyone not familiar with the series. Additionally, if you read the article, it becomes immediately apparent that a good deal of it is being written in a very informal, unprofessional manner that jumps from one piece of trivia to the next, quite randomly. I hate to see such an extensive list marked for deletion, but if it can be begun again from scratch (and done right this time), it will probably be better in the long run. Radien 10:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoilers

The Four Sword section contains several spoilers. Why does the spoiler tag keep getting removed ? I'd like to remove the spoilers from that section, but there's not much else to say about the sword. - ~Viper~ 02:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:Spoiler warning. -Randall Brackett 17:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

If you had read that yourself, you would see that the spoiler tag was well placed. -- Jelly Soup 18:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Then where is the supposed "right spot" for the spoiler tag? Or should we just spoil the entire game for readers who aren't expecting the amount of spoilers based on the rest of the article? - ~Viper~ 22:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

For this article, that's a non-issue. Four Sword is the only one with spoilers, so.... -- Jelly Soup 04:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression an encyclopedia cannot possibly spoil a reader by merit doing what an encyclopedia is supposed to do. We give information, not concern ourselves about someone remaining ignorant. If you feel paticularly anxious about this, add a view on the project talkpage. Its generally not an acceptable practice to advocate the inclusion of them in item articles. -Randall Brackett 23:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the project talkpage. Spoilers in these articles have been an issue before. Notice that no other article in the project contains spoilers like Four Sword does. You can spout all the definitions you like, but it doesn't change the fact. We need a spoiler tag or a rewrite. About the only counter argument you could come with is a petition someone started a few months ago about not including spoiler tags in video game articles, and the discussions on that aren't even finished yet. -- Jelly Soup 04:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Then what's the point of having a spoiler tag? Even if you're just giving information, that doesn't change it from being a spoiler. If there's not gonna be a spoiler tag, then I think someone should take the spoilers out somehow. Why can't they be in item articles, anyways ? - ~Viper~ 23:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Quite. There is no point. -Randall Brackett 23:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

You do realize Viper is speaking in favor of a spoiler tag or a rewrite, right? Your comment made no sense.

[edit] Masks?

Requesting that "Masks" become its own page. Right now we only have two listed, and there's alot more to be spoken of. 8 in OoT, 20 in MM... seems important enough for its own article.

-- Tryforceful 17:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Seems a bit like gamfaqs material in my view. I think we should leave that material over at gamefaqs. -Randall Brackett 21:42, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move "Deku Stick" out of "Swords" section

Although it is wielded in the manner of a sword, it truly isn't one, and thus shouldn't be placed there. --Tryforceful 08:10, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I think its appropriate in that, despite the notion its not called a sword, it is utilized in the exact same manner even by being a sub-weapon. -Randall Brackett 13:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

But it's truly not a sword, if even by definition. A sword is a "a cutting or thrusting weapon that has a long metal blade and a hilt with a hand guard"[1]. It can be considered a polearm, or melee combat weapon, but not a sword. Dothefandango 01:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, and to reinforce my point, consider that it's a collectable, disposable that holds stock in your inventory, as opposed to swords of which there are usually only one, making them more specialized, and which appear on the Equip screen in OoT, not the Items screen. (Great Fairy's Sword is an exception, but) all swords follow this general rule. --Tryforceful 13:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

If the Deku Stick counts as a sword, then the hammer counts as a sword which is absurd. --The Conscience

I have an idea. We have a few sections of canes + the rod of seasons, yes? How about we make a new section, "Rods & Staves"? Matter of fact, I'm just going to do it. -- Jelly Soup 04:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Funny. I was just thinking about that when I moved the Deku Stick. ^_^ Sraan 00:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Magic

There should be a section on Link's Magic like Dins Fire, Farores wind, and everything else from all of the other games.

Yes, and a section on some other items like Bombos medallion, Quake medallon, etc... DarkLink Metroid 00:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game guide material

I'm concerned that some of the stuff recently added, and some of the stuff that's already in the article comes very close to game guide material, which makes it possible for the whole thing to be deleted. Notably the swords (hit damage) and the newly added power bracelet information, which includes information on where to obtain the items. --ColourBurst 07:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Help me out here, I must not be understanding. I'm the guy who added the Power Bracelet info; I didn't go saying "enter the dungeon, destroy the monsters in the first room, make two lefts, and open the chest to get the bracelet." I simply stated their location. Not "how to get them." I've been seeing all this apprehension and caution about making it "too GameFAQs" or "too much like a game guide," but I feel that the fact that this is a video game is causing it to undergo discrimination. The Liberty Bell is an item. In the first 7 words on that page it tells of its location. Why can't I say where the bracelets are? Why can't information like hit damage be stated about something in an encyclopedia, a compendium of all knowledge? To me, for that example, the hit damage helps me understand just how greatly two swords differ. Similarly, I once added some information (straight from the screens of Ocarina of Time) about the MP required for fire, ice, and light arrows, which was removed also. I find it useful to comprehend that Light Arrows (6 MP) consume twice as much power as both Fire and Ice (3 MP) — it helps me logically understand their nature — and what better way to state that than with the actual information from the game?

I can understand where Wikipedia would want to protect itself from becoming infested with video game fan crap like you see on the forums. But maybe they need to be a little more specific, or make a revision, on how this shouldn't be a walkthrough but should be a source of information. --Tryforceful 08:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Why would you need to know how much MP a Fire Arrow costs (and likewise how many units of damage the swords do) unless you were playing the game? I'm not so sure you need to know where the Power Bracelets are either, but I'm willing to concede as the location of the Master Sword is important. As for "discrimination", there was a flurry of delete nominations on AfD concerning lists of things like Units in Starcraft and Weapons in Halo 2 (both of which got deleted). --ColourBurst 01:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Heh, that sounds discriminatory against video gamers. "unless you were playing the game?" What if someone is, or wants to in the future? It makes more sense to provide these people with not only general information that would aid everyone but also the extra bits that can prepare or enlighten them as to how this general info applies to the game. Isn't Wikipedia open to all readers, gamers included? That's why there are all these bias and adaptability editing safeguards. I don't know... on one hand I can understand where you're coming from — I personally didn't find MP info that crucial. But on the other hand, it still is information, and thus I believe it has a right to be stated alongside the other attributes of the object in question. Just because this attribute may not be of interest to everyone doesn't deny its existence as a notable attribute. Anyway, what great harm could it do? Someone who isn't interested in the info simply won't make a note of it in their minds. Ehh.

[And when I said "discriminatory" in my first post, I intended it to mean "discriminatory against video games versus everything else", not just "Zelda versus other video games".] --Tryforceful 01:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

If someone wants to play the game and wants to know how much MP a fire arrow costs, they consult a game guide site like gamefaqs. Things like how much damage an item does or how much MP a spell costs is game guide material, no matter how much you argue it will help someone. According to WP:NOT, the point about instruction manuals, game guide material is not allowed. --ColourBurst 03:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've seen WP:NOT and that relevant section. Tell me how listing information like MP or hit points is instructing anyone to do something?? That is irrelevant here. I believe people have taken that one clause too far, interpreting it as "No video game-only information," which is not what it says. And thanks for the input, SaturnYoshi. --Tryforceful 08:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

To hopefully stop the arguing, I rewrote the sword section so that it sounds less like a game guide while still providing information on how the different swords compare with each other. -SaturnYoshi 05:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

Looking at this article, it seems to me that the way it's organized would make it very confusing to anyone who hasn't already played all the games, or at least understand their continuity. I think it would make the article more readable if it was divided into sections for each of the games as seen in Mario series enemies, instead of the generic classifications currently in use. Items can get a full description under the game they first appear in, then subsequent entries on the same item would simply tell the differences unique to that game. (For example, the Bow and Arrow would be described under LoZ, while notes about quiver upgrade and silver arrows would be under aLttP, and notes about fire/ice/light arrows would be under OoT)

Yay or nay? SwordsmanC 09:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I say yay. SaturnYoshi 19:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This article/category of the series requires a lot more work beyond just organization, and it's a very daunting task which is why I, at least, have put it off for a little while. I agree that the items should be divided by game, however I don't think it would be best to have the main descriptions focused on the first games they appear in. Your proposal to only supply details on the differences from previous versions of an item suggests that every item is improved upon as they appear in newer games of the series, which is not necessarily true. The first few games of the series, due to obvious technological limitations of the earlier consoles, hardly elaborated at all (textually) on the descriptions, uses, etc. of weapons and items in the games, and all we really know is from game guides/manuals (whose information may have likely been superceded by other games in the series) and the power of observation. Therefore, it may not be suitable to provide the bulk of an item's description where it first appeared, as it's possible that most of its information is revealed later on in the series. It is extremely likely that this article will grow to become several different articles, each describing the items in a particular game (like The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask masks, weapons and items). Thus, I'd vote for a neutrally-biased effort, in that each game's weapon/item article provides a detailed description on how it is used in that game only, and possibly minute notes (w/ "see also"s) on its appearances or references in other games.

In short, "yea" for organized, "nay" for first-appearance focus. --Tryforceful 22:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I like this idea better. Yea. --SaturnYoshi 06:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I understand your logic and agree that each item deserves a full description for each game, but, combined with my proposed format, it would make the article very long and very redundant. In response to an article for each game: by the looks of the first topic on this discussion page, this article was originally a merge of such articles. Though it seems the decision wasn't made with consensus. I'm all for game-specific articles such as the Majora's Mask one. --SwordsmanC 00:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other things I noticed

Missing alot of things from the FSItems portion of this... seeds, Bow Wow (which was also in Links Awakening) Upgraded Items such as the stuff from FSA, various things from Wind Waker too. The title of the article is Weapons and Items from The Legend of Zelda series Not weapons and items from OoT, MM, LttP, LoZ, AoL, etc. If these items aren't included then neither should the items that only appear in two games outta the whole series, including the seeds them selves, the rods, etc.

Where's the golden sword people? The Conscience

Agreed. People are starting to add more and more of these items, myself included. -- Jelly Soup 22:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

If you notice anything that's missing, please add it!DreamingLady 23:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Magical Sword

Regarding the Magical Sword, this section of the article has an inaccuracy. I would be bold and simply correct it, but I don't want to skirt the "citation" issue in doing so. Basically, the swords in the first Legend of Zelda (the (Wooden) Sword, White Sword, and Magical Sword) were each progressively more powerful than the last. The White Sword was twice as strong as the (Wooden) Sword (I parenthesize because it's just called Sword in-game)... directly measurable. Enemies that took four hits now take two, enemies that took six hits take three, etc. Basic division. The Magical Sword was *one* notch stronger... its hits were three times the strength of the Wooden Sword. If an enemy took six hits of the Wooden Sword, it took two hits of the Magical Sword. If an enemy took three hits before, they took one hit now. I realize that these numbers match a sword "four times" stronger also, technically, but I know from experience with mixing it up with other weaponry that it's actually the case that the Magical Sword is three times stronger than the original sword, but not so strong as to be four times stronger. It's like the Ocarina of Time swords... the Biggoron's Sword/Giant's Knife are three times stronger than the Kokiri Sword but not four times stronger. I've played the game several times through in the past 18 years and have known for at least 17 of those years that it was 3x and not 4x. However, the manual (at least of the US version) incorrectly states that the sword is twice the strength of the White Sword... in what I always assumed was hasty typo or assumption on the manual writer's part. Now, I could correct the article to be accurate, but given what the manual says and how I don't have a reputable citation for this correction... I instead bring it up here. I would of course want this to be independently confirmed just in case I've been settled in an assumption or blindly missing some math evidence for two decades, as well. 72.192.237.134 01:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)Ismail

The Biggoron Sword does twice more damage than the Master Sword. It takes 20 regular swings to defeat Ganondorf with the Master Sword and 10 with the Biggoron Sword. DynamoDT 00:06, Tuesday April 9, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deku Leaf?

The Deku Leaf is missing from this article. Tredanse 03:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure it was just overlooked. For the longest time the bottles weren't even mentioned. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 03:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't overlooked, it's in it's own place and needs merging. Look at Deku Leaf. -- Jelly Soup 05:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Should we have it merged or just do a cut and paste then delete the other page. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 08:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, cut and paste sounds like a good idea. Not enough info on the page for a merg. -- Jelly Soup 20:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright. I moved the info and tagged the "Deku Leaf" article for deletion. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 21:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Zelda weapons and items

Template:Zelda weapons and items has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.

[edit] Magical seeds

Do the names of these items look like an eyesore to anyone else? I think we should do away with the colors. No other good article does this. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 21:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I took care of it. SixteenBitJorge 17:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing stuff

There's still a lot of items not on this page. Here's a list of what I can remember. Add anything I forgot and cross them off as they're added.

Bombos Medallion (LttP)
Quake Medallion (LttP)
~~That other Medallion that did the same thing as the other two~~ Ether Medallion (LttP)changed 21:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Magic Powder (LttP and LA)
Spoils Bag (WW)
Spinner (TP)
Gnat Hat (FS)
Sail (WW)
Tingle Tuner (WW)
Enemies' Weapons (Darknut Sword, Moblin Spear, etc.) (WW)
Deku Mask (MM)
Goron Mask (MM)
Zora Mask (MM)
Fierce Deity Mask (MM) added 21:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Weird Egg (OoT) added 07:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC) (UTC)
Pocket Cucco Egg (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Cojiro (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Odd Mushroom (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC) (There's also a mushroom which turns into the Magic powder in LA)
Odd Potion (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Poacher's Saw (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Broken Biggoron Sword (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Eyedrops perscription (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Eyeball Frog (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Eyedrops (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Claim Check (OoT) added 16:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Flowers, Statues, and Idols (WW) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Poe Souls (TP) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Gold Skultula Tokens (OoT)added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Mysterious Shells (MC) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Kinstones (MC) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Golden Bugs (TP) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Silver Scale (OoT) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Moon Pearl (LttP) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Sinking Lure (OoT and TP) added 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

~~Walking Bombs (TP)~~ in article with correct name (bomblings) 21:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Grappling Hook (WW)~~ in article 01:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Mail Bag (WW)~~ in article 19:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
~~Magnetic Glove (FS?)(OoS)~~in article 10:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Telescope (WW)~~ in article 21:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Hawkeye (TP)~~ in article 21:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Bomb Arrows (LA and TP)~~ in article 20:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC).
Small Key (All) added 21:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC) in article 21:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Magic Key (LoZ) added 21:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC) in article 21:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Flippers (Most) added 10:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC) already in article with Raft
Mermaid Suit (OoA) added 10:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC) in article under Raft 21:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Din's Fire (OoT)~~ added and in article 21:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Nayru's Love (OoT)~~ added and in article 21:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Magic Armor (WW) added 21:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC) in article 21:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Quiver (Most) added 16:07, 27 November 2006 (PST) already in article under Bow and Arrow~~
~~Bomb Bag (Most) added 16:07, 27 November 2006 (PST) in article 01:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)~~
~~Fishing Pole (Many) added 19:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC) in article 19:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)~~
~~Big Key (All but LoZ)~~ added and in article 21:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Hero's Charm (WW) added 21:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC) in article sometime before 20:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd add some now, but I really should be doing my homework. SixteenBitJorge 17:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The other medallion is called Ether Medallion and the Magnetic Gloves are in Seasons. -- Jelly Soup 19:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

You forgot the Fierce Deity Mask. Also, I'm wondering if all the masks should be listed... Plus, a "Tools" section can be added to break up the "Others" section. Tools can include: Ball and Chain, Bug Catching Net, Compass, Cross, Dungeon Keys (no entry), Dungeon Map, Gust Jar, Hammers, Lanterns, Raft, Shovel, Spinner, Stepladder. Basically items used mainly for dungeon crawling and exploration. Plus the Books can have their own section. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 19:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The list of masks is probably long enough to merit its own page. And there aren't enough books for their own section. SixteenBitJorge 21:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I seem to remember masks having their own page at one time. I'll take a look. And on the matter of books, if we intend to include all items from the game, then Trading Game items should be included, which would add Tear Jerker (book from Seasons) and Photo Album (from LA:DX). -- Jelly Soup 00:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Masks can be found here: Masks, weapons and items from The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask#Masks. We should just make a two sentence blurb and then link off. -- Jelly Soup 00:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

What about the masks from Ocarina of Time that did not show up in Majora's Mask? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 17:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Good point. I guess we should make masks it's own page. We need to be careful not to make it FAQish. -- Jelly Soup 10:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Before I add it, would the grappling hook (WW) go under ranged weaponry (with the hookshot) or other since it isn't used as a weapon? SixteenBitJorge 20:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say ranged, as it can be used as a weapon. -- Jelly Soup 00:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Technically, it isn't a weapon: it does no damage and instead steals spoils. But I'm nitpicking, so I'll put it anyway. Anyone with a beef can change it.SixteenBitJorge 01:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I believe it can destroy the Keese in the lava dungeon it was found in. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 02:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "Other" Section

There are alot of entires in the "Other" section, and I was thinking that some of these items should be in other sections. For example, maybe "Ball and Chain" and "Gust Jar" should go in the "Ranged Weapons" section, or a new "Mid-ranged" subsection, and "Raft" and "Spinner" can go under a new section called "Vechicals" or something. Any suggestions? JQF 17:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

For the Raft and Spinner, I was thinking "Tools". -- Jelly Soup 19:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That could work, and things like the "Bug Catching Net", "Compass", "Dungeon Map", and "Shovel" could go there too. JQF 19:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your proposition for a "tools" section, but I think the Compass and Dungeon Map (along with Small Key, Magic Key, and Ooccoo) should go in something like "dungeon items." SixteenBitJorge 20:54, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Other suggestions for a "Tools" section, I listed in the topic above this one. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 09:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I've also noticed that "Fairy Tears" from Twilight Princess are not listed anywhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.255.94.229 (talk) 18:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Wouldn't the Hammer be considered a tool? -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 09:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I would think so. Most of the hammers uses would be thought of as tools-worthy (well, the Megaton Hammer was a weapon, mostly). -- Jelly Soup 11:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Four Sword

There's a lot of information under the Four Sword, and I think it merits its own page. SixteenBitJorge 22:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Back up to Spoilers (above). We have an issue of Four Sword having far to many spoilers. Really, there isn't that much information on the damn thing, we just need a rewright. -- Jelly Soup 00:35, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Stuff

There is still nothing on collectables (poe souls, gold skultula coins, seashells, kinstones, golden bugs, etc.). Also, brief discriptions of items stored in bottles would be nice. Armogohma 18:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Add it to the list above. We'll get to it when we get to it. ^_^ - Jelly Soup 06:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Poes are listed in the "Bottles" section. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 16:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The Poe Souls to which he is refering are from Twilight Princess and are collectables. Furthermore, concerning many of the items on the list above, there are enough items to merit a "Trade Items" section, but I don't know how to describe their use without sounding like GameFAQs. SixteenBitJorge 21:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Just a few sentances explaining what Trade Items are. Each item would have a sentance or two about what the item IS, not who wants it. Although, this will be hard for things like 'Dog Food'. -- Jelly Soup 06:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] waaaaaaaaay too long

When a page is over 120KB, you know it's too long. Navigating the navigation is a trial itself. No one would honestly care about all this when it's so full. You can't honestly tell me this is acceptable for a WP page. a Lot of it could be merged together - masks with masks, swords with swords, etc. Scepia 01:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's too long. I think the masks should get there own page to start. However, I'd like to note that this page at first was seriously lacking. It hadn't even half of all items in the Zelda games. But what do you expect with 13 games, all featuring 15-30 items? Not to mention what is coming. Now that it is close to actually being what it should be, it's too long. Then what's it supposed to be? I am trying hard to keep things merged and to merge things as well as delete all unnecessary stuff. If you have suggestions, tell them! A lot of items just don't go together in one article.DreamingLady 07:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me, this page could use some cleaning up; for example, the line "When Link uses one, the fuse is lit and when he releases it, it will travel for a while then explode" is kind of pointless.--Kowareta 07:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trade Items

I have counted the trade items in OoT, OoA, OoS, and MM, and ther are over 50 of them. That is too big a section for something so unimportant. Armogohma 18:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

And hardly any of them has been added. I was thinking about doing so, but if that's the case, I won't.DreamingLady 22:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split into separate pages for each game

Why not do this? This article is waaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

If some content proves to be unencyclopedic, we can move them to wikibooks or something and link from here. but I'm not sure I like everything from the series cluttered into one page. Wikipedian06 03:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is. However, since a lot of items reappear almost identical in different games, I'd say it's a little strange to mention them I-don't-know-how-many-times on different pages that are part of each other. I think we should just split some subsections, like the masks and containers, and let them be their own page. DreamingLady 07:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] why does this article exist?

I'm considering AFDing this article? Can someone explain to me the real world cultural relevance/influence) of what's discussed here? I'm not saying Zelda the franchaise does not demonstrate those qualities but every weapon link has used? --Larry laptop 10:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Quite simple really: The more notable equipment needs a page to describe it so that it doesn't have to be copy-pasted on every single article. The rest of it is thrown in because otherwise you have a non-inclusive list, which is just silly. Or are you suggesting we split it into 10+ other articles covering a SINGLE piece of equipment? --tjstrf talk 12:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No I'm saying we just don't describe most of them - just a summary to see that he has magic booties which exhibit various magic properties including... and so on. --Larry laptop 12:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

That would be effectively identical to the current format, except that it wouldn't explain which games each ones appeared in. --tjstrf talk 12:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Even if it's not AFD'd - the page seems to be growing at a fierce rate - it's currently 144kb - what's the solution? --Larry laptop 16:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This should be in AFD. Wikipedia isn't a game guide: which includes item lists. Zelda is a notable series: but item lists aren't. Put this on a Zelda and/or video game wiki instead. RobJ1981 19:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Game guides aren't game guides if they only provide item lists; they are defined as such only if the information is relevant specifically to playing the game. Saying that the Zelda series has almost always had bombs, and that they blow stuff up, is in no way a game tip. Saying that to defeat King Dodongo you must wait until it inhales and then lob a bomb into its mouth... that IS game guide material. There is a dividing line we need to draw, but "no item lists" is not it. Especially in a longstanding game based on a character who is always pictured carrying certain signature items. Saying that Link uses a bow, a boomerang, and bombs is a lot like saying that Robin Hood is good with a bow and a sword. A certain amount of further detail is warranted, even if there are limits. Radien 09:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move to gaming wiki

OK I've been looking further into the guidelines, policies and various other bits connected to video games.

The Video Games Wiki (yes I know it's not policy but seems to the "considered" viewpoint on what should and should not be done with video game articles) has the following to say:

A general rule of thumb to follow if unsure: if the content only has value to people actually playing the game, it's unsuitable.

I'd say this article fails that test, I do not see how content such as Light Arrows are also featured in The Minish Cap as an arrow upgrade. They are the first item ever that can be missed. If Link doesn't save Gregal before officially visiting the Wind Tribe, Gregal dies and Link will not get the Light Arrows ever. is of much interest to someone who is not playing that game.

It also says that other content that might be moved to a gaming wiki includes:

Lists of mere statistics, items, or other minutiae. The HP or weight class of a character is not important to the article; neither are all the swords available in the game. ]

I'd say this article seems to match this one as well: Bottles are an essential part to many of Link's quests. These containers are used and often required to carry various things, such as: <list of all the bottles that link encountered

--Larry laptop 19:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I think I agree that this article is only of interest to gamers and should be moved to a gaming wiki. I propose adding a paragraph to the gameplay section of each Zelda game article to briefly summarize the innovations in gameplay introduced in that installment, including some of the more interesting weapons/items. Please do not take this to mean copy and paste the paragraphs from this article onto the individual articles. Axem Titanium 22:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Words

All occurrences of the word "game" or "games" seems to have been deleted from the article. How'd that happen? 71.212.182.59 11:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone edited from a horribly over-censored computer. I had this problem one time with the word "gamble" when I was on a computer with Cybersitter enabled. --tjstrf talk 13:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of weird things, I just noticed that the entire page repeated itself from Swords onwards. --tjstrf talk 14:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Cybersitter is friggin' idiotic, considering such censors do virtually nothing to protect kids. Anyway, I fixed all the blanks left by that censor, though there were so many that handful of incorrect plurals, incorrect lack of plurals, or awkward spaces may have been missed. This page still needs a lot of work to avoid deletion, though. Major changes should be made, regardless of who does it. Radien 03:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Major changes have already been made, actually. Some people just have never read a game guide so they think this is one. --tjstrf talk 03:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, major changes continue to be made. I don't think it's quite satisfactory yet, from the last time I checked a few days ago. I think the people seriously calling for the deletion of this *entire* article are being unreasonable, but in my opinion there is still "game guide material" that needs to be removed or summarized until it is no longer "minutae." Even as an avid gamer I can totally understand how and why Wikipedia's policies apply to this article. Radien 10:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My changes

My changes do not necessarily constitute exactly what I want (although all of the ones I deleted I want deleted). Here's what I think should remain, although this is just the ones I think should definitely be in, no questions asked:

Master Sword
Bottles
Bombs
Bow & Arrows
Four Sword
Boomerang
Hookshot
Hero's/Hylian's Shield (combine them)
Mirror Shield
Green tunic (and all other default tunics)
Flippers
Iron Boots
Pegasus Boots
Musical instruments
Lamp/Lantern

Comments? - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Incomplete lists are useless. But sure, whatever gets it through AfD. --tjstrf talk 05:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

A complete list is gamecruft. It's not incomplete if we only include both the more known weapons/items based on how notable they are to the franchise - Master Sword, Boomerang, Bombs, etc. are all major to the series. Also, the article should be moved to clarify that it's not all weapons/items, but the most important. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Why on earth would we make an incomplete list on an easily completable subject matter? It's not "gamecruft", it's "finishing what we start". Not completing the list is silly. Regardless, it needs moved to Recurring equipment and items of The Legend of Zelda series if it's being kept this way. --tjstrf talk 08:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, what I am doing is only considered incomplete if you say "the article NEEDS to have every item". If you focus on recurring equipment and items in The Legend of Zelda series, it would become complete. Like how the "worst ever" list article writers discuss what's included, we would too. - A Link to the Past (talk) 08:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

An Encylopedia doesn't seek to have limitless information to begin with. The point is to contain that information which is immediately relevant to someone who holds an interest in the subject. Wikipedia isn't nearly as limited in scope as the old printed Encyclopedias, but we should still take into account whether each article is concise enough to be useful to the reader. Radien 10:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article will constantly sprawl as it is

It's becoming apparent to me that the immense popularity of the Zelda series is causing this article to constantly grow to unmanageable proportions whenever left alone. Users seem to feel compelled to add directions for use of items in the various games which, in my opinion, definitely count as "game guide" material (for instance, upon reviewing the listing for Iron Boots I found that pretty much every single Zelda puzzle in which the item had ever been used had been recounted individually).

Today I found myself basically deleting lots of stuff which was recently removed to keep this article from getting deleted. I don't think it was the same people trying to reinstate their old information; I think it was new users typing their own versions. I certainly hope I haven't unintentionally done something that appears to be an "edit war," because there's so much information here that it's hard to keep track of what's appeared before.

I don't think any of the users I've seen are intentionally abusing this article, but is there SOME way to convey to newcomers that this list isn't an instruction manual compendium? No one is reading the talk page, it seems. This article has been somewhat of an experimental participation for me, so forgive me if I'm being a little testy right now... Radien 11:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Why carnt we just slip it, instead of having "Weapons and items" we have links to different pages, because its obvious that combining them just created a "sprawling list" so we have pages like "Swords" Master Sword Four Sword Magical Sword Biggoron's Sword Giant's Knife Kokiri Sword Wooden Sword Fighters Sword

"Ranged Weapons" Boomerang Bow and Arrows Slingshot Hook Devices

"Canes, Rods and Wands"

"Explosives" Bombs Bombchus Power Kegs Big Bombs

"Shields" Hero's Shield Hylian Shield Mirror Shield

"Clothing and jewelry" Tunics [*]Green [*]Red [*]Blue [*]Purple Hats Boots Capes [*] Roc's cape [*] Magic Cape Bracelets, Gauntlets, Gloves, and Rings

"Masks" OoT Masks MM Masks

"Musical Instruments" Ocarina Flute etc etc

"Tools" Fishing Rod Lamp/Lantern Shovel Deku Nut Deku leaf

"Containers" Bottle Heart Wallet

"Dungeon Items" Big Key Map Compass Small Key

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate source of information. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split

So, the article is almost double the recommended size, so it's probably time to split. It might seem that a natural split would be Weapons and Items but the split wouldn't seem so clear (is magic powder an item or a weapon?...)

Also, the article is currently titled "recurring" stuff. But some of the things mentioned only appear in one game? Maybe that'd be a good seperation?

Any thoughts? McKay 15:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone needs to go through this article with a heavy duty sponge and some Formula 409 and clean the cruft 'n' crap outta this thing. Its HUGE. There have got to be some things that can be scrapped, moved, or generally redone. I think before any splits, we need to go through this thing and clean what we can. For one, the "Rod of Seasons" stuff can be: A) Done away with, B) Rewritten, C) Put with "Oracle of Seasons" where it really should be to begin with. All the stuff like that needs to be stuck in its proper place. What really should be here is all the stuff you see in every Zelda game, or at least a majority. This includes, but is not limited to, Master Sword, Hero's Sword/Shield, Mirror Shield, Wooden Shield (maybe subsection, maybe not), Boomerang, Bombs, Bow & Arrows (with subsection on Fire, Ice and Light), Hookshot (with clawshot subsection), Slingshot, and maybe Power Bracelets. This really should be split into an items article too after de-crufting and de-crapping, as for the bottles, Heart Containers, and all that other stuff just makes this article overly long when you could easily create two reasonable-sized, more easily maintained articles than one long, overbearing one. Jerichi~Profile~Talk~ 13:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we should start by making everything presentable? As there have been difficulties reaching a consensus on deletion of items, and there are so many of us, touching the article up wouldn't hurt. As some items aren't quite recurring e.g. Cane of Pacci, we can decide on how to split the article up after it looks less...haphazard. Sunshard 02:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A split into more articles isn't needed. This list needs to be cleaned to actually be "recurring" items and weapons... otherwise it should be deleted and moved to a gaming Wiki. In my opinion, the latter is better: this item/weapon guide is simply not suitable for Wikipedia. RobJ1981 15:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Knight

Due to the highly debated and somewhat ambiguous timeline of Zelda games, one cannot really say which hero the knight could be. By mentioning that he is just "Possibly...from a previous Zelda game" we avoid the whole debate but still get the point across. CeeWhy2 06:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biggoron Sword

I've noticed that the Biggoron Sword also seems to make an appearance in Twilight Princess, in an alcove in Hyrule Temple. If someone could confirm/disprove this and provide citation, that would help. 12.206.235.170 02:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Which alcove? And do you mean the Temple of Time or Hyrule castle?Thecolourrose

[edit] This does not belong on Wikipedia

I'm afraid this does not belong in a general interest encyclopedia like Wikipedia. Please view the policies and guidelines of WP:NOT, WP:ATT, WP:WAF, and so on. Based on WP:ATT, anyone has the right to remove unattributed information. Your best bet is to take this information to the Zelda Wikia, consolidate it into a few paragraphs, and put it in a general article about the gameplay of the Zelda series (whenever you have the chance). I see few references, no out of universe information beyond OR, and no even semi-reliable sources except the Zelda encyclopedia, which is good for citing the in-universe information (but articles need both in-universe and out of universe information to be deserving of an article). A general article about the gameplay of the Zelda series, such as Gameplay of the Legend of Zelda series, is appropriate; it can cover how the gameplay has evolved, common themes, perhaps a section on typical items, and so on. The key, however, will be to find interviews, articles, and other sources to back up such an article so that it is not OR.

I know this issue is common elsewhere, and it might seem unfair to bring it here before other placers, but there is always a starting point. By becoming one of the fiction project to set an example, Zelda editors can become well known, well respected, and will ultimately have a formula for success on Wikipedia. That can lead to realistic FA pushes and other great things, not to mention valuable teamwork, research, and copy-editing experience. Those two skills transcend Wikipedia, for sure.

For some examples on how to consolidate in-universe information into out-of-universe articles, see Characters of Final Fantasy VIII and, despite not being completely finished yet, Creatures of Final Fantasy. — Deckill er 00:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Very well then, that leaves me with little choice. — Deckill er 16:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

You do realize that the primary sources are reliable according to WP:WAF itself, right? You can't call it unsourced so long as the games themselves exist. And so long as we describe what the item does as a gameplay element rather than just its in-universe "history" you can't say we're being excessively in-universe either.

Really people, read the policies you're trying to throw around. Fictional facts are reliably sourced by canon, not peer-reviewed journals. Opinions on fiction still have to be sourced to external things of course, but there is no reliability issue with sourcing the facts about a game to itself because fictional "universes" are not subjective like the real one is. --tjstrf talk 22:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Using the source is perfectly fine, but there needs to be more material for an article to attain an out of universe perspective (which is necessary for an article). How have the items been received in gaming culture? How was the item system developed? What influenced the creation of certain items? Also, it is important to physically attribute the material to those sources, such as official strategy guides, game script, or manuals. — Deckill er 22:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I would counter that since this article exists only as a fragment of the larger subject of the LoZ series, it is the subject that needs to contain out of universe information, not "this page" or "this paragraph" or "this sentence". Yes, there are improvements that could be made to this specific page by adding information on how different items changed the series and developed. (This might be aided by reformatting the article into, for instance, chronological order of origin rather than being classed by type.)

However, if the article is on a notable subject, accurate, maintainable, and comprehensive, it definitely meets the primary criteria for inclusion here. So claiming that it should be deleted solely for lacking creator interviews or whatever other arbitrary standard of defictionalization you're after is pretty much laughable. Might I remind you that Wikipedia is a work in progress? --tjstrf talk 22:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I did not mention the word "delete" in my message (I am against deleting articles that have the potential to be turned into encyclopedia articles because Wikipedia is a work in progress, like you said). Nor did I mention I want to "defictionalize" Wikipedia; on the contary, most of my contributions have been to fiction, and I want to see us treat fiction in the most encylopedic way possible. The post "that leaves me with little choice" was in regard to a lack of interest in working on the article; one cannot do things alone. Your comments in the first paragraph, about rearranging the article into chronological order and adding a historical touch to this article, is great, and would make this a solid subarticle. My post was (and is) intended to hopefully inspire people into seeing that, as of right now, this isn't an encyclopedia article tailored to general interest, but it can be turned into one, or, if impossible, it can be merged into a general gameplay article covering the history of gameplay elements of the series as a whole, which stands a greater chance. — Deckill er 22:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Here are some sources that contain information about how the developers went about incorporating new items or "classical" items in some of the more recent Zelda games: [1], [2], and [3], [4]. There are more out there, but these are some examples of sources that anyone intersted in working on this article can use to create a chronological format; for example, "The developers felt that classic items had become overused in Zelda games. Thus, they decided to add twists on existing weapons to 'increase the challenge for both fans and gamers new to the series'. Such innovations include the Clawshot, a variation on the hookshot....". — Deckill er 00:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ACK!!

What happend to the mask section!?!? Thecolourrose

The masks page was considered unsuitable for inclusion for Wikipedia here. However, if you would like the information moved to the Zelda Wikia, I can transfer the data and redirect the edit history. — Deckill er 03:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

>snifs< Ok...that's fine. But I don't know how to get there. Will you leave a link or a way to get there?

Here's the link to the Zelda Wikia. It's more suitable for the details about items and whatnot. — Deckill er 19:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.Thecolourrose

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