Talk:Recurring characters in the Aubrey–Maturin series

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[edit] New Character article

I would put this in place and let us all bring it on. Particularly in need of inline references.

All right, but we will have to clean it up a bit. I assume you want inline refs for specific details? Last thing, should we create a separate page for this? It's pretty long. --Joelmills 22:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes - references for specific characteristics mentioned. This is long enough (and will grow) to be a brand new article. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 08:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
A good start. I propose that full names be included where ever possible. I'm trying to track down Maturin's full Spanish name, but I forget in which book it's mentioned (Post Captain?). Also, I don't believe Jagiello had an affair with Diana; Maturin merely suspected it. Konczewski 15:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Esteban Maturin y Domanova .. mentioned in / constructable from several places .. The Surgeon's Mate, for example - and later on in Blue At The Mizzen.
Jagiello and Diana - Maturin received several anonymous letters (probably from Wray) with detailed descriptions of where they were doing it (behind a church altar for example) - as you can see in The Thirteen Gun Salute / Nutmeg etc. She did run away with Jagiello to Sweden - though whatever it was seems to have fizzled out as Jagiello was engaged to a quite "suitable" young woman srs 15:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Diana herself denies that she ever had any non-platonic relations with Jagiello, and she admitted her relations with Johnson and Canning. On the other hand, her definition of platonic and Stephen's might be different. I think O'Brian deliberately left the nature of Jagiello and Diana's relationship ambiguous. --Badger151 17:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Again, going by memory, I think those letters were faked by enemies of Maturin, in an effort to compromise his intelligence work. Konczewski 20:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Order here, order...

Anyone have any thoughts on how to organize this page? It seems rather random at present. --Badger151 18:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

How about Aubrey's family, then crewmembers, then other misc. characters? Konczewski 20:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Aubrey, Maturin right at the start would be a good thing. With Sophie and Diana's profiles right after their husbands. Followed by their regular crew members - Killick and Bonden certainly, plus other key crew like Pullings, Babbington, Mowett, Reade, Padeen, etc. Then start a new misc recurring section split into family, crew, others .. (Joseph Blaine, Clarissa Oakes, Ledward, Wray, Jagiello, Prince William, etc). Whatever we do its going to be one helluva long list. srs 05:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't you want to limit it to characters that figure in at least two novels? Sure, Prince William is mentioned, but what does he actually do in the novels? Maybe there should be a list of minor characters, seperate from this one.Konczewski 17:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Whatever. Let's get started with organizing this first.

Attempt at order made. --Joelmills 03:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Works for me. But I could swear that Jagiello was only accused of having an affair with Diana; I don't think he consumated the affair. I'm re-reading the books now, so I'll check.Konczewski 02:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Wow - looks good; people are much easier to find now. Regarding Jagiello, I really think that there is some deliberate ambiguity, for the reasons I mention above, but also becasue of Jagiello's reactions on encountering him in Letter of Marque. Using Norton's paperback edition (ISBN:0-393-30905-3), on p268 O'Brian says "Jagiello recognised [Stephen] at once; for a moment his first look of astonished delight changed to one of extreme reserve, but then his potential adversary came forward, took him affectionately by the hand...". I think Jagiello recognises that Stephen may believe that he (Jagiello) has cuckolded him (Stephen), but whether we can state anything further I don't know. Diana seems to have a similar recognition of what appearances are.
The most telling statement made by anyone, though, I think is made by Sir Joseph, who on p121 of the same volume says "I also gathered, though ... I cannot assert that my assumptions are correct ... that relations between [Jagiello] and Mrs Maturin were ... not what they were ordinarily assumed to be" (what I have cut is the hesitations and false starts Sir Joseph makes as he tries to address this difficult issue.) He then goes on to say, some paragraphs later, that "you may think the absence of any tattle or rumour in such a place as present-day Sweeden tollerably significant." Personally, I don't think they had an affair, but I'm not so convinced as to say that they absolutely could not have had one. --Badger151 16:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joseph Blaine

https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/fall_winter_2001/article10.html suggests that he and his role were entirely fictional and an anachronism - the canon is set during the napoleonic wars, and the sort of post Sir Joseph occupies only came into the Royal Navy around the late 1880s.

[edit] Screenshots from movie

I would love to get screenshots from the movie in order to have a picture of the character next to their description, but I'm damned if I can figure out how to do it. Anyone know how? --Joelmills 02:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Read the wikipedia images policy. It doesnt allow you to upload copyrighted images (and I imagine Peter Weir, and the studio - i think 20th century fox - own copyright for all that), or reference externally linked images in the article. Basically youre SOL if you want to do that.

After a closer reading of the image use policy, I see it says, As a general rule of thumb, Wikipedia allows low-resolution images of copyrighted material if they are unlikely to affect the potential market for the material, are used for the purposes of analysis or criticism, and for which there is no alternative, non- or free-copyrighted replacement available. However, I think you are right and use of a screenshot just for illustration of a character probably does not qualify as fair use. Too bad, really. I got the idea after seeing that the Harry Potter folks had done it. --Joelmills 02:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page referrences

I've seen page numbers next to some of the information here, which is a good thing, but presents us with a problem: which version/printing do these refer to? I myself have M&C in both the Norton printing and in another contemporary printing (I forget by who), and the pagination is different. --Badger151 04:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I've really been meaning to get to the references. I started out with a footnote style, but I think inline refs with page numbers is the way to go, since it looks better. As to the proper edition to use, I would vote for Norton for two reasons. It seems to be the most common edition, and it's the one I have, which would make my life easier. A simple note at the beginning of the article about the edition used would remove any ambiguity. --Joelmills 23:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
No one else seems to have an opinion, so since I agree with you, I added a note to that effect to the top of the article. --Badger151 04:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Willam Reade's arm/hand: continuity

If I remember correctly, Reade looses his arm at the end of The Thirteen Gun Salute, due to injuries he sustained during the battle with the sea Dyaks. Stephen says something such as "I have just take Reade's arm off at the shoulder." I seem to also remember either Stephen or Jack musing that Reade, having lost an arm, had less body into which he could dilute alcohol - his tollerance was low because of his lost arm. In later novels, though, it seems more like he has only lost his hand, as if Mr O'Brian either forgot or decided to forget that the loss was this severe. I have changed the page to reflect this. --Badger151 05:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Past or present tense?

Which we use doesn't matter to me, but we should pick one. Perhaps someone who made more contributions than I has an opinion? --Badger151 05:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems to be mainly in the present tense as it is. Not sure what the proper tense to use is, but I would suggest sticking with the present tense unless someone else can come up with a good reason not to. --Joelmills 23:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bonden

I concur that Bonden ought to be merged into this article. I think it would also be important to note that Bonden and the other ratings in the book should be written to provide a perspective on the lower class part of Georgian society. V. Joe 21:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the Bonden article should be merged inot this one - Canadian Osprey 03:21, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely; merge them. Bonden is a recurring character in the series, he already has an entry in this article that is almost as long as the Barrett Bonden page, and most of the information on that page is already also on this page. If this page grows too large, he is a major enough character that we might then want to give him his own page, but we can jump off that bridge when (if) we get to it.
I also note that there are short pages on Jack Aubrey and on Stephen Maturin - the pages are shorter than Bonden's page, and shorter than the corresponding sections on this page. If these pages on Jack and Stephen can be fleshed out enough, they may deserve to exist as independant pages, but for the moment, I'd say merge them into this one, too. --Badger151 07:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
One technical question, though: Maturin's page bears the category "fictional physicians," or something very like; can that category be connected to his section in this article? --Badger151 19:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Davies

Described as black .. at least in O'Brian's usage (and you'll find him describing other men as Black as well, it simply means "dark haired, with dark eyes" rather than blond / redheaded and with blue / gray eyed. White all right. You'll find negro hands and such tagged with "darkie" or similar nicknames, and in the case of, for example, Sam Panda, or John Square the Krooman, you'll find their skin described as dark / black.

[edit] Missing characters

I think we need to add the following characters:

  • Clarissa Oakes
  • Sarah and Emily (the two native girls adopted by the Surprise)
  • Dutourd (he's in "The Wine Dark Sea"

Does anyone else thing we should expand the main articles on Jack and Stephen, then edit the entries here? Konczewski 16:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I added Clarissa Oakes.Konczewski 18:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
great entry - how she was overlooked till now is beyond me. --Badger151 07:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nathaniel Martin

I don't entirely know what the following, which I cut from Martin's entery, is supposed to mean, but I didn't want to delete it entirely. This appeared near the end of the entery, and concerned the end of Martin's career at sea: "is first threatened by a condemnation of The Wine-Dark Sea," Is this supposed to relate to his pamphlet, in which he condemns some of the Royal Navy's practices? -Badger151 07:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

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