Talk:Ray Comfort

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Contents 1 Controversial statements 2 Origins of Open Air preaching 3 Why is this "Article" so long? 4 Pope Tract 5 "Sharing" Faith? 6 External Links 7 remove the banana conversion lie... 8 POV discovered and removed 9 Changed the sentence saying Comfort is not ecumenical even in the narrowest sense

[edit] Controversial statements

More should be mentioned of Ray's controversial statements. On one his web videos , one where he's anoying people at a courthouse he says: "Solider's in Iraq are dying for you.", well i know one thing they are not dying for this guy to use them to make money.

Hi! Please sign your posts with ~~~~. Re: what Comfort says, 1) How exactly are they making money?; 2) If you can find a source which refutes his "controversial statements," then by all means put it in! Be sure to read and adhere to WP:NPOV, WP:OR, and WP:CITE. Thanks! MessengerAtLWU (talk | contribs) 16:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry to inform you, but I've seen that video. People were not annoyed and he didn't even say that soldiers were dying for us. He said they were fighting for freedom which we all enjoy here in America. I don't agree with him, but he was also deceived as many Americans and foreigner living here were. So, that is a non issue. The issue he is talking about pertain to eternal issues not temporal things such as politics. The question is are you going to Heaven or Hell after you die? Dele

[edit] Origins of Open Air preaching

I'm puzzled at the statement that Ray Comfort started open-air preaching in the early 1980s. I lived in Christchurch from 1974 till January 1979, and heard him preaching in Cathedral Square a number of times during that period. Cheers Neil Copeland

I'm not sure. Obviously, I wouldn't discount what you saw. Also, it's necessary to take into account that according to Out of the Comfort Zone and Miracle in the Making, he did not "discover" the principle of using the Law until around 1981, so that may be what that's referring to (doing O/A with the law). IIRC, I remember hearing or reading him say that he tried it just after he became a Christian in the 70s, but he stopped for a while. MessengerAtLWU 21:12, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Neil, this is an update. I remember now reading in Out of the Comfort Zone that in face he did OA in the 70s, even though it was before he started using the law, so I'll update the article to reflect that. --MessengerAtLWU 19:17, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this "Article" so long?

World Book Encyclopedia, for those pastors that do get into their work, reseve only a brief one paragraph short article for them. Why is this article so long and so detailed. Wikipedia is not in the business of promoting evangalist.Magnum Serpentine 19:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pope Tract

Honestly, what controversy is there about the Pope tract? Outside of here, I've not heard of anything online in blogs or the news specifically about this tract as I have about, for example, Pat Robertson's antics. I don't want to offend anyone, but from where I'm sitting, this paragraph is merely a way for someone to vent about something they don't like, and so I've deleted it yet again. Also, 208.57.160.201, your "compromise" makes very little sense; the quote from their newsletter says nothing about any possible controversy, but merely that it would take some time for them to have the tract ready to be purchased. That could mean any number of things: that it had been designed but not sent to the printer yet, that there was some sort of delay in getting it shipping in time for the newsletter, or that they had some, but not enough to fully meet demand. MessengerAtLWU 21:12, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Sharing" Faith?

If you watch only ten minutes of the video, you can see that the point of it all is to teach clever tactics to convert people to evangelical fundamentalist Christianity. Consequently, I have changed "share" to "promote." I think that's a better description of what they do, and it more than does justice to NPOV.

Hey! First, plase sign your name with "--~~~~". Second, which video are you talking about? Third, I'm not sure what the difference is between "share" and "promote." Both seem fairly NPOV. --MessengerAtLWU 04:02, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, promote doesn't just mean evangelism though, it could mean something like bring all Christians together to do something important. Sharing the faith, however, really is evangelism. Homestarmy 13:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

You share something with someone who is interested in it. I don't think the "heathen savages" in the New World were inherently drawn to Christianity. They had it forced upon them by the evagelicals of that historical era.

Now fast forward to the 21st century. Take a look at The Way of the Master videos. Comfort displays techniques to convert people, mostly by using shame and fear. Through his narrow interpretation of the 10 commandments, we're all Adulterers if we've ever looked at another person and felt a natural, physical attraction to them...we're all Thieves if we've ever stolen anything at all, even when we were innocent young children...we're all Liars if we've ever made any kind of misstatement.

This is not sharing. This is persuasion.

I must of missed the part in the videos where Ray brings out the torture rack and Inqusition officials. Did they forget to mail me an episode? And if you really have looked at the episodes and thought about it, or really read the Bible, (Especially the first parts of Matthew), you'd find those standards were presented first by Jesus Christ, so elaborating in his particular beliefs would require notation of how they align with the Bible since, you know, he kind of is getting them out of there. Which is fine with me, I mean, the more the Bible is mentioned the better in my opinion. Homestarmy 22:12, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Ckav and Homestarmy, as much as I'd love to get into this debate, it is not germane to the discussion. The question is, "Is 'share' an appropriate word?" Wiktionary says that to share is "to give part of what one has to somebody else to use or consume." That is precisely what Comfort does. "Persuasion" is also an appropriate word, but it has a negative connotation. "Share" does not. Also Ckav, please sign your posts in talk pages with --~~~~. Thanks! --MessengerAtLWU 00:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the fact that persuade has negative connotations, it really doesn't matter though. I think it should be left as share too. -AlexJohnc3 11:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The word “persuade” does not always carry a negative connotation but it can. And in this context it does. When one hears the word “persuade” in terms of religious evangelism it brings forth connotations of one person forcing his or her beliefs upon another. Whereas, the word “share” brings forth the connotative picture of a dialog which is more in keeping with what Mr. Comfort does. --Neovita 21:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I saw a number of Atheists in my school selling T-shirts and talking to people trying to convert them to Atheism. I respected they and their opinion and I went to talk to them about my views too. Share faith persuade people whatever the term. He is doing it because he cares about what he believe would happen to people after death. I'd rather have him inform people about his opinion, than not saying a thing.

[edit] External Links

Why can we not include these external links:

Skull and Crossbones Award - Sponsored by the Evangelica Out Reach Organization

Ray Comfort’s True and False Conversion and Law-Preaching Evangelism Examined

Must all external links be NPOV? Isn't Ray Comfort an evangelica preacher? Should others not read Evangelical reviews?

I'd have to say on the second one its probably this paragraph:

"Folks, it is not that Ray Comfort is confused, but his theology is poisoned by eternal security. Because it is fatally flawed, it has resulted in these irreconcilable contradictions and deadly errors. The sooner we realize this the better it will be for multitudes of people here and the kingdom of God in eternity. Eternal security is not the message of the Bible but instead a doctrine of demons designed to reclaim precious souls for Satan that once found salvation through the Lord Jesus and his precious blood."

That's downright hostile. Also, the article itself is, well, shoddy, I could go through it point by point and address the errors he's making and provide the context of the times to show why Jesus did what He did rather than what this person hopes that He did if you like. Plus, who are these people/person? Do they pass notability? Homestarmy 19:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and in many episodes or radio broadcasts Ray often talks in-depth about issues concerning backsliding, so that crossbones award for creating backsliders hardly applies concidering all the stuff his ministry is always doing about backsliders in the church. Homestarmy 19:45, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] remove the banana conversion lie...

Theres is an extremely antagonistic character who is determined to keep that lie about Ray Comfort converting becasue of a banana, no doubt a fan of Hell bound alee show. This is going to be monitored regularly...

Okay, who is this person? Have you talked to him or her about it? Having heard Comfort give his testimony, I don't think that was the key reason behind his conversion; the last straw that I've heard him more often is Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:28 that lust is just as wrong as adultery. Therefore, I've erased that portion of the sentence, and moved the rest elsewhere in the document, as the whole thing itself is relevant. If someone comes back to change it, we'll deal with it.

Who is monitoring it? You said on my talk page that LW is. Well, in the world of Wikipedia, and with all due respect to them (I admire their ministry greatly), that doesn't matter. Several editors watch this page, and if someone messes stuff up, we'll fix it. That's what the wiki community is about.

Also, sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes (~~~~). Thanks! MessengerAtLWU (talk | contribs) 02:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV discovered and removed

A line which called Comfort's understanding of a banana "ignorant" and said that bananas are actually human created. No citation was added, so until one is, I have removed this sentence as it does not belong in this article. Also, there was a link to a video of Comfort describing why the banana is proof of a god, with quotations calling the video funny. The motives behind posting this video, as well as the little remark to follow the link are clearly POV. Karatenerd 13:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello! While I agree the motive may have been POV, as someone who supports Comfort, I must say that the video of him essentially renouncing one of the biggest arguments in his case for creationism would probably be good for either here or The Way of the Master#Criticisms. If we just gut everything that goes against them, then we are guilty of POV ourselves. There must be some semblence of a balance. MessengerAtLWU (talk | contribs) 16:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changed the sentence saying Comfort is not ecumenical even in the narrowest sense

For a person to be 'ecumenical in the narrow sense of the word' would surely mean that he or she is accepting of different variations of the same religious group, but not accepting of all religious groups. The article goes on to say Comfort has been involved with churches in most denominations, and that being the case, 'ecumenical in the narrow sense of the word' would be a good descriptor for him. NZUlysses 08:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)