Talk:Raphael

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Contents 1 Images 2 Raphael's birth and death dates 3 Ninja Turtle 4 Semi-protection 5 I love Raphael's work 6 Cultural depictions of Raphael 7 oddities

[edit] Images

Images uploaded but still not used:

			(?)

[edit] Raphael's birth and death dates

The text is a little problematical.

• The date of 6 April 1483 has been calculated using the Proleptic Gregorian Calendar. My question: Why? The Gregorian was introduced on 15 October 1582, and was NOT retrospectively applied. The Proleptic Gregorian was a later invention for use in scientific contexts, and it has no relevance for the dating of ordinary historical events. Just as the Julian Calendar does not apply to dates on or after 15 October 1582 in Italy (and some other countries), the (Proleptic) Gregorian does not apply to events occurring prior to that time. If Raphael was born on Good Friday 1483, and that day fell on 28 March (using the only calendar then available, the Julian), then 28 March 1483 is Raphael's date of birth and 6 April 1483 is simply wrong.
• Similar argument for his date of death. If he died on the eve of his 37th birthday, that means he died in 1520, by which time the Julian Calendar was still in place. The only correct date we should use is 27 March 1520.
• Paragraph 3 under "Major works" says he died on his 37th birthday, but the last line of the article says he died on the eve of his 37th birthday. At least one of these is incorrect. Does anybody know the truth?
• I have also seen it written that both his dates of birth and death were Good Friday. Can anybody verify or refute this?
• The Norton Anthology of English Literature (Vol. 2, 6th edition, page 426) refers to Rafaello's dates as 1488-1520. Kevinhowarth 04:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Cheers JackofOz 06:13, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to know if what appears in the article is speculation on the part of the person who posted it, or if he or she can point us to some other source of that information.

I agree especially with your first bulleted paragraph. If he was indeed born on Good Friday, and that fell on 28 March 1483 Julian, then he was probably born on 28 March Julian, and the 6 April date is just an error. Note that 6 April was a Sunday on the Julian calendar, Friday on the proleptic Gregorian calendar.

But the conclusions drawn in the article is based on a speculation that if the date of birth was on the Julian calendar, the date of death must have been as well. That doesn't hold water.

• Dates of birth are often harder to verify than dates of death, especially in those days long before registration of births. Dates of death of famous people, however, are generally available from a variety of sources, so it is unlikely that any discrepancy there would have remained uncommented on for very long.

Good Friday in 1520, at least in the Danish calendar calculations in the "Dage" program, was on 6 April 1520 Julian calendar. So if his birth and death were indeed both on Good Friday on the Julian calendar, the only Christian calendar in use then, he would have been one week past his birthday at his death. Gene Nygaard 06:09, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• Ah-hah! The plot thickens. Thanks for that, and let's hope the 'Raphael guru' makes him- or herself known soon. Cheers JackofOz 06:53, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I searched the histories of the relevant pages and found that at the creation of Raphael on Feb 12, 2002 (as the article Raphael) 62.253.67.6 gave birth and death dates of "April 6?, 1483 - 1520". On the same date 151.24.190.229 changed the dates to "Urbino, April 6?, 1483 - Rome, April 6, 1520" and added the sentence "He died at 37, on his birthday", all of which he apparently got from the current Encyclopaedia Britannica article on Raphael. Then on Feb 15, 2002 User:Wesley removed the question mark. On Nov 13, 2002 User:Eclecticology transferred those dates to Raffaello Santi when he merged Raphael with it, and changed Raphael into a disambiguation page. Finally the note on those dates was added to Raffaello Santi on Apr 15, 2004 by 32.106.41.158. It appears that the last writer converted April 6, 1520 (Gregorian) to March 27, 1520 (Julian) thus concluding that he died on the eve of his birthday (and failed to remove the note that he died on his birthday). The 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica article on Raphael Sanzio states on its last page that he died on "Good Friday (April 6) 1520, at the age of thirty-seven, exactly". I suspect that he did indeed die on April 6, 1520 at the age of 37. I also suspect that someone thought that that also meant that April 6, 1483 was a Good Friday. [1] states that he was born on Good Friday in 1483. I confirm via [2] that April 6, 1483 (Julian) was not a Good Friday (it was Sunday).

I recommend that the birth and death dates at the top of the article (April 6, 1483 - April 6, 1520) should not be changed (except delete "see note below"), and that the erroneous speculative note on the dates be removed. It might be advisable to note that he died on Good Friday but was not born on Good Friday, possibly as part of the "He died on his thirty-seventh birthday" sentence. — Joe Kress 12:32, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

I 'concur with that recommendation. Gene Nygaard 13:01, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC).

Thanks folks for that excellent bit of research. I have now made some amendments to the main page. Cheers JackofOz 01:12, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ninja Turtle

How about a mention about a Ninja turtle being named after him? 71.250.4.126 20:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protection

I noticed that this page is frequently vandalized, 99.99999999% vandalism coming from no-registered users. Therefore I marked it with the semi-protection... Let me know what do you think about this move. user:Attilios

you can't sprotect unless you're an admin. --Lord Deskana ^{Dark Lord of the Sith} 20:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I love Raphael's work

He is such an inspiration.

[edit] Cultural depictions of Raphael

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] oddities

Raphael or Raffaello (April 6, 1483 – April 6, 1520), born in Urbino, Italy, was a master eater and philosipher of the Florentine school in the Italian High Renaissance, celebrated for the perfection and grace of his paintings. He was also called Raffaello Sanzio, Raffaello Santi, Raffaello da Urbino or Rafael Sanzio da Urbino. his most famous saying is "eat or be eatin".

I assume the typo, eater, and ridiculous quote is the result of vandalism. Can someone fix this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.181.193.177 (talk) 06:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC).