User talk:RalphLender

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Hello RalphLender, and welcome to Wikipedia! Here are some recommended guidelines to help you get involved. Please feel free to contact me if you need help with anything. Best of luck and happy editing! CobaltBlueTony 16:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Advocates for Children in Therapy

I see you've reverted Sarner's edits and he hasn't reverted back. Disagreeing strongly with you is something I can't do anything about. If it turns into a revert war, or he starts acting incivil or something, that's different. But I'm not the only admin around here; you can always take it to WP:ANI or WP:3RR yourself. Mangojuicetalk 21:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

  • I've made a series of edits to the page in question, which I expect will please absolutely nobody, but which I feel better adheres to NPOV, the manual of style, and Wikipedia guidelines in general. Feel free to check it out. -- H·G (words/works) 07:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Ralph. Thanks. It does appear that there is a double standard involved. For example in the Barrett article everything has to be well referenced ,even to the standard of court documents otherwise the so-called anti-quackery editors cry foul and delete everything on sight. Interestingly when they contribute to article on Hulda Clark or people they disapprove of, there is no such requirement for solid references. In fact in many cases there is none provided...NATTO 20:58, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your observation

That is an interesting observation...maybe it does bear looking into further DPetersontalk 21:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

OKRalphLendertalk 13:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop your "vandalism" warnings on my user talk page

As you know, you have recently posted two vandalism warnings on my user talk page. Please stop. I have not been vandalizing anything on Wikipedia, but making good faith edits. I once had an administrator caution me about bringing false charges of vandalism. He said:

Now to answer your concern about vandalism reporting: vandalism is the kind of edit that no one should have a disagreement about. Here are a couple of examples of true vandalism: [1] [2] [3]. Edits other people want to make and you don't like are not vandalism, and it's a kind of incivility, if not a downright personal attack to describe someone's good faith edits as vandalism.

Larry Sarner 23:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation over Advocates for Children in Therapy

You have been listed as an involved party in Advocates for Children in Therapy, and I have accepted the case at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-10-07 Advocates for Children in Therapy. If you can please take a look at the case and let us hear your side, I would appreciate it. Thanks! Nwwaew(My talk page) 19:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Candace Newmaker page

I think you should reconsider the revert you just did to the Candace Newmaker page. In my opinion it is completely unjustified and damaging, and you should undo it. Larry Sarner 20:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

As recommended by several other editors, you have been asked to stop reverting from the consensus version to your own. Since you've rejected taking a poll and various other Wikipedia dispute resolution procedures; let me suggest another option. Instead of merely reverting to your version and deleting material that others find acceptable, how about if you just 'ADD' what you think would improve the article first, get a consensus on that and then begin discussions about what you think should be chnaged or delted and build consensus for that? RalphLendertalk 13:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your request

Sorry, but this is too complicated a situation for me to simply step in and make a ruling. You should work it out amongst yourselves, but if that is proving difficult, you should follow the steps in Wikipedia dispute resolution. Mangojuicetalk 00:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please

Don't make 3RR reports like you did on User:Sarner. It's only a violation if they go *beyond* 3 reverts. Thanks. --Woohookitty(meow) 10:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advocacy request

Ralph, I've agreed to take on your request for advocacy. Give me a little time to look through the history of the dispute, and I should be able to offer you some suggestions. Thanks, TheronJ 14:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Ralph, it looks to me as if Shotwell is withdrawing from the DDP-related disputes.[4] Based on that, I think there's nothing more to do on your advocacy, but will be happy to keep going if there is anything else you would like to discuss. I apologize for not making much progress on the issue before it resolved, but am glad it went well for you. Let me know your thoughts, TheronJ 14:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Since he is withdrawing and the pages will remain the same, I think we are done for now. I appreciate your help and will complete the followup section of the advocacy request form. Again, thank you. RalphLendertalk 22:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conversation from Bowlby

The RFCU was denied because it was filed under a code letter that requires diffs (links to evidence) of vandalism. No evidence was presented and the request was subsequently rejected. This was not an affirmation of the vandalism accusation -- it was a mere rejection.

I said it constitutes a personal attack because the allegation you posted on the Bowlby page has been reasserted several times on multiple pages (all with the same misguided logic). I've previously pointed out the misguided nature of this accusation, yet I still see it popping up.

I believe that you have a fundamental misconception concerning the term "vandalism" on wikipedia. You've accused multiple people of vandalism when they were making good-faith edits (myself included). Perhaps you should read WP:VANDAL, if you haven't already. The term 'vandalism' is highly loaded here. Notice that the first two warning templates for vandalism don't even mention the word 'vandalism'. If you'd like to see some real vandalism, I suggest doing RC patrol for a short while. shotwell 23:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I made a silly error above. The second warning does mention vandalism ("adding nonsense is considered vandalism"). However, it does not directly accuse the person of being a vandal. shotwell 23:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
And I never accused Sarner of being a Vandal. I do point out that he has a history of disruptive edits on the Bowlby and other artcles and was blocked from the Bowlby article for a while because of his actions/behavior. Pointing out these actions is not a personal attack, I don't think. RalphLendertalk 23:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I saw the accusation of vandalism as being implicit to the repeated assertion that RFCU made a "finding of vandalism". I'm not really talking about when you bring up his "history". I was specifically referring to the vandalism accusations. shotwell 00:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The comments were put on several pages since the statement by the reviewer seemed clear and seemed to apply to his actions in a general way and would be important for other editors/mediators, etc. to be made aware of as a point of information. RalphLendertalk 12:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Schizophrenia article

Hi Ralph, I certainly think a request to unblock the article is a good idea. I guess it's a case of just wait and see what happens after that. If the blanking continues, despite consensus to the contrary, I don't think there's much option but to put in a vandalism notice. - Vaughan 22:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. RalphLendertalk 19:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revert warring

Stick to the rules. Read the text carefully. I bolded the rules for you, so you will find the relevant text easily. Do not engage in obviously unjustified revert wars. This is against Wikipedia policy and it can get you banned if you continue.--Grace E. Dougle 20:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cites in attachment therapy

It seems you are well intentioned but your cites are not congruent. The American Psychological Association makes no stands on types of therapies. Call them. The cite you used had to do with child abuse.And the Natl Social Worker Board makes no stand. Yes Utah does. You could state it that way.Do you have an email?Where I live attachment therapy is prevelant. I think it is very harmful.I feel more people should know about it. I am not going to get into and edit war with you. Very many therapists use this therapy with absolutely no sanctions. If you feel it is harmful then you should let the truth be shown in this article.

Fendyam 18:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Glad to see that you are now using a user name rather than just the IP address. You are in Lakewood OH and/or Naugatuck CT? The APA and NASW do have positions against coercive and intrusive interventions either explicitly and/or as part of each organization's code of ethics. The APA participated in the APSAC Task force that produced the standard cited in the article. Practitioners of "Attachment Therapy," as defined in this article, which invovles the use of coercive and intrusive interventions is not a prevelant practice, given the various prohibitions cited. If, by "Attachment Therapy" you mean treatments based in attachment theory such as Stanley Greenspans Floor Time, then is probably is prevelant. But this article defines "Attachment Therapy" in a very circumscribed and specific manner. It is a rarely practiced form of intervention, given that one cannot use it an be acting in concert with one's professioal organization. RalphLendertalk 18:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I am currently working with the state to have laws changed. I am working undercover. I really feel that much of your info is in error. You seemed concerned about this as I am. I can email you and talk about this but this public arena is not the place. I disagree with you as far as the prevalence. From my research it is very prevalent. I am not going to change the article again. But this is jus playing into the hands of AT advocates. They work below the radar. Hope to hear from you Fendyam 18:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a place for original research, See relevant Wikipedia policies regarding writing articles. As defined in this article the practice is very rare. Wikipedia is a public forum and so discussions take place on user talk pages and the talk pages of articles. I am happy to discuss issues in those venues. RalphLendertalk 18:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes I agree that there should be no original research here. That is why I an concerned that assertions be cited carefully. You are saying that the Natl Social Workers Boards says some thing and then you cite it with Utah. And I do believe you are in error about the prevalence. Talk to Linda Rosa of childrenintherapy.org. Or talk to any number of the larger state Family Services Departments and I think you will see how prevalent it is. Again I cannot discuss too much of this in a public forum because of the investigations that are going on. Hope you will research these facts as I have indictated. Fendyam 19:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CV

Can you provide a source for the CV you mention here? -- Fyslee/talk 07:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Talk:Stephen_Barrett

I combined your two "support" statements together. I hope you don't mind.

I wish you would comment how these facts somehow overrule all the policies brought up in the discussion, especially policies specifically about not including facts out of context that are not properly sourced. Otherwise, it seems like you're missing the meat of the arguments here. --Ronz 15:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to clarify my basic point. RalphLendertalk 17:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
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