Talk:Ralph Nader/Archive 1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

<Talk:Ralph Nader

Should we change or move the phrase about arab americans liking nader? it seems out of place with no source.

A LOT of this article is lifted from britannica.

Dinopup

I deleted the link from "consumer" in the phrase "consumer rights activist". The link was pointing to a not-yet-existant entry for "consumerism". Why? Well, first, although Ralph Nader may not be a big fan of "consumerism", this is not an important fact in the first sentence you learn about him. More importantly, I think a link would be better made to a page on "consumer rights activism", a phrase which may not be intuitively obvious to everyone. I have not made such a link, because I don't think such an article exists yet, and I don't want to write it at this time. -Ryguasu

DanKeshet: that sentence you separated into two did look less than ideal. Semicolons don't always imply a run-on, though. In particular, if two sentences are related - e.g. if the second provides evidence to support the claim made by the first -, then a semi-colon can be a reasonable way of connecting them. -Ryguasu

I change the word "America" ,as sugested in the United Sates page,to a more proper name of United States Cuye

Does anybody want to do anything with that dangling link corporatizing the dictionary or should we just delete it? 15 October 2003

This page is suffering from a massive case of External Link-itis. RickK 05:35, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Contents

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I am so mad at Ralph Nader! If by chance I add anything to this article, revert it immediately because it will be steeped in POV. Kingturtle 19:50, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Not running on Green ticket

Has any reasoning been presented, by Nader or others, for why he is choosing to run indepedently instead of for the Greens?

Because the Green Party refuses to back his candidacy. To quote an AP story:
Even the Green Party, whose banner Nader carried four years ago, chose to focus on its own priorities.
"Our midterm goal is the creation of a multiparty political system and the participation of a strong Green Party in that system," said Ben Manski, the party's co-chairman."
Sincerely, Kingturtle 23:31, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Nader is not running on the Green ticket because they are not choosing a candidate (or even if they will run one) until their national convention in June. This would be too late in Nader's opinion to run a serious campaign in part because it would mean missing some ballot access petition deadlines. SonofRage

Photo is out of date, arguably POV

The photo in this entry is much more flattering to Nader than he actually looks, thereby giving the impression that he is a rational, intelligent person and not the egomaniacal, cadaverous shell that he is. The photo below is about as flattering of a recent photo as I could find, and you'll see that even it is many times less attractive than the airbrushed one that exists in this entry now: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040222/photos_pl_afp/040222200007_st14n5qg_photo1
Can someone find a non-copyrighted photo of Nader that actually represents the way he really looks today?
Moncrief, 00:03, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

While the above seems like a crank comment, he actually makes a valid point. (Full disclosure - I'm the one who posted the current photo). Nadar recently came to our campus. A friend of mine, one of the members of the campus greens, described him as looking like "Death warmed over". →Raul654 00:08, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)

Your friend flatters Nader. Moncrief 00:10, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
A quick google image search for "Ralph nader gov" didn't find any really good (IE, large closeups) of Nader. Would you like to suggest anything? →Raul654 00:14, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)
I'll do some searching, but not on a full stomach. Moncrief 00:30, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Would photos from his campaign website be fair use? RickK 01:20, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Under the new fair use guidelines as required by Jimbo, we would have to search for free alternatives first, request permission from all possible sources etc.—Eloquence
Its not like kerry or bush ever appear anywhere "un-airbrushed"

Dear friends, what flatters me is a discussion about how to search for a picture that shows the person like "Death warmed over", or similar, "the egomaniacal, cadaverous shell that he is" in the name of NPOV !!!!

We will use a photo of Ronald Reagan in his hospital bed with alzaimer? or a photo of Mae West when she was 85? Milton 14:47, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

On a related note, Martha Stewart looked a lot more dog-earred after the court case than she does in our article. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 18:38, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Photos: A modest proposal

All Wikipedia biographical pages should have an associated image gallery, such as Ralph Nader(images). In the case of the image pages for males, I suggest that Wikipedia develop a new Reality TV show in which the the cast of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is televised while they discuss the available uploaded images and decide which one is most flattering for each biographical page in Wikipedia....that "most flattering" image would be placed on the main page for each person in Wikipedia.

Oh further consideration, I oppose changing the image on the grounds that its flattering. Unless someone comes up with a better reason, I think the pic should stay. →Raul654 19:30, Mar 23, 2004 (UTC)


I met Ralph several times during the campaign and he seems to have warmed up considerably (compared to the above reported episodes). I saw him directly and warmly engage with many people, laugh, tell stories, shake hands... He is an incredibly energetic and youthful 70 year-old. While he is no model, I would argue that he is at least as good looking as Mr. Lincoln and deserves better treatment at the hands of his opponents, who have little to say about his policies and instead have to resort to the cheapest sorts of attack. (Is that why you vote for someone? Because of the way they look. Well go take a look at [a href="http://www.votenader.org/>Votenader.org] and you will see dozens of photos of an energetic man, trying to do the best that he can for America.)

2000 Election

Does anyone feel that the statement "Gore would have won the election if the Nader voters had all shown up (unlikely without Nader) and voted for Gore (less unlikely)" is slightly misleading? It basically says that Gore would have needed all (or nearly all) of Nader's votes to win, which certainly would be an unlikely scenario, when, in fact, Gore would have needed only 1% of Nader's 97,488 votes in Florida to win, using the current counts. That's a big difference, and far from being "unlikely" I would tend to think of it as extremely likely that he would have gotten that 1% of Nader's support. And keep in mind I am not talking about 1% of THE vote, but 1% of Nader's 1.63% of the vote. (Of course, this would assume that in a Naderless race Bush would get 0% of votes that would have otherwise gone to Nader, which I would think rather likely.) Any comments?

Actually, some Nader voters were expressing their disgust with the Democratic Party and would indeed have voted for Bush in Nader's absence. Nevertheless, you don't need to assume that Bush would get 0%, only that the amount Gore would have gained from a Nader withdrawal (Gore's share of the Nader vote minus Bush's share) would have exceeded Bush's margin over Gore. I've included a quotation from Nader's own website that gives the key number (Gore share minus Bush share) as 13%, which would be enough to swing Florida but not New Hampshire. Of course, the exact share would probably vary somewhat from state to state, but only about 1% would be needed to swing Florida. With the national average at 13%, I can't imagine that Florida was below 1%. JamesMLane 10:28, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Most political analysts and experts believe that Nader threw the election to Bush - this paragraph makes it sound like he entered the election in order to make sure that Bush won it. "Throwing the election" has the feel of losing on purpose. I'm deleting that sentence until somebody can come up with other wording. RickK | Talk 05:43, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Well, arguments about a GOP president energizing progressives to the contrary...I'll change it to "caused Bush to win the election". Meelar 05:45, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"When challenged with complaints that he was taking away votes from Al Gore, Nader argued at times that he was trying to save the Democratic Party, and at other times, that he wanted to destroy it."

The only quote in Lexis Nexis in which Ralph Nader uses the word Democratic and destroy is this one:

"I don't think that's going to happen. The two Republican Justices, O'Connor and Souter, three times in the last 10 years had a chance to add to a majority reversal of Roe versus Wade and they declined. I just think this is settled policy in this country and Democratic politicians are scaring the women's movement on that issue. I've heard from so many Republican operatives who say to me privately: If the Republican Party is ever responsible for reversing Roe versus Wade, it would destroy the party. And I believe it would." --Dvogel 16:27, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't think the statement "Nader caused Bush to win the election." can be quantitatively substantiated, as it can be substantially argued that if Florida was not in violation of election laws and a disproportionate number of democratic voters were not disenfranchised, Gore would have won, and thus, in a legitimate i.e. fair count of votes, Gore actually did win, even with the loss of votes to Nader, controversial judicial rulings that "because florida was in violation of the equal protection (constitutional) ammendment, the count should be accepted as legitimate." notwithstanding. Kevin Baas | talk 16:50, 2004 Sep 25 (UTC)

External links

The extlinks are currently unbalanced. The two pro- sites are official, whereas there are five (necessarily unofficial) anti- sites. Would it not be fairer to add one or two unofficial pro- sites, if they exist? Pcb21| Pete 08:51, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Ballot access

The issue of whether Nader gets on the ballot in each state certainly merits discussion here, but to give so much detail about Florida seems inappropriate. There's no particular reason to believe that Florida will be particularly important in 2004, as compared with other states considered to be "in play". (Of course, it's more important than states like New York and Texas, where Nader can't possibly swing the election.) Is there any reason to discuss how the court interpreted Florida's ballot access law? Won't the article get cluttered if we try to do that for every state where Nader's ballot status is litigated? JamesMLane 03:47, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It is more deserving of discusssion because of the historically-persistent controversial nature of florida election processes and florida state government. (it dates much further back than the 2000 election). Kevin Baas | talk 20:48, 2004 Sep 22 (UTC)

In 1992 Nader was not on the ballot in NH and he did campaign there, as a write-in candidate. Pimpalicious 7 October 2004 5:22 (UCT)

The ballot access discussion in this article is weak, still reflecting the sporadic way it was assembled (although also, to be fair, reflecting the constg Florida but not New Hampshire. Of course, the exact share would probably vary somewhat from state to state, but only about 1% would be needed to swing Florida. With the national average at 13%, I can't imagine that Florida was below 1%. JamesMLane 10:28, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Most political analysts and experts believe that Nader threw the election to Bush - this paragraph makes it sound like he entered the election in order to make sure that Bush won it. "Throwing the election" has the feel of losing on purpose. I'm deleting that sentence until somebody can come up with other wording. RickK | Talk 05:43, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Well, arguments about a GOP president energizing progressives to the contrary...I'll change it to "caused Bush to win the election". Meelar 05:45, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"When challenged with complaints that he was taking away votes from Al Gore, Nader argued at times that he was trying to save the Democratic Party, and at other times, that he wanted to destroy it."

The only quote in Lexis Nexis in which Ralph Nader uses the word Democratic and destroy is this one:

"I don't think that's going to happen. The two Republican Justices, O'Connor and Souter, three times in the last 10 years had a chance to add to a majority reversal of Roe versus Wade and they declined. I just think this is settled policy in this country and Democratic politicians are scaring the women's movement on that issue. I've heard from so many Republican operatives who say to me privately: If the Republican Party is ever responsible for reversing Roe versus Wade, it would destroy the party. And I believe it would." --Dvogel 16:27, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't think the statement "Nader caused Bush to win the election." can be quantitatively substantiated, as it can be substantially argued that if Florida was not in violation of election laws and a disproportionate number of democratic voters were not disenfranchised, Gore would have won, and thus, in a legitimate i.e. fair count of votes, Gore actually did win, even with the loss of votes to Nader, controversial judicial rulings that "because florida was in violation of the equal protection (constitutional) ammendment, the count should be accepted as legitimate." notwithstanding. Kevin Baas | talk 16:50, 2004 Sep 25 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../r/a/l/Talk%7ERalph_Nader_Archive_1_fb71.html"