Talk:Ragga

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[edit] Merge?

What is the difference between ragga(muffin) and dancehall reggae? I always thought that while ragga is a type of dancehall music where a dee jay (=rapper) is chatting, dancehall is a more general term for any kind of digital reggae music. Wathiik 14:32, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I support the claim, ragga just seems to be a short of raggamuffin, both are digital rhytm driven DJ styles. Rastavox

Allright, I mostly agree with you guys, so I proposed the merger on the main page. I'll take the two signed comments as supports of merging....

Personally, I think I agree with Wathiik, except that dancehall has been pretty much used to describe the most modern style of reggae since just after the studio one days (long before the digital days). But I do think that ragga implies a DJ vs. a singer. Further, I think that "ragga" is term more used in britain (although I have no research on that at all) and by non-reggae listeners in the USA. Reggaedelgado 05:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm new to this. I suppose my post should be below earlier ones, not above. So I put it here instead: Ragga and dancehall is exactly the same thing. Therefore there should be only one article. "Ragga" is just the British word for dancehall. Nobody talks about "ragga" as a musical genre in Jamaica. Just check the list of artists in the two articles: many artists are in both lists. The existance of two articles just further spreads the misunderstanding that ragga and dancehall are two different genres. It creates artificial and ambigious borders based on peoples personal confusion regarding this subject. People try to distinguish ragga from dancehall, just because there are two different words which makes people think there _must_ be a difference. Wathiik's post is a perfect example of this: "I always thought that..." DonRuba 11:06, 25 April 2006

Dancehall is a term that came to describe jamaican music used for dancing from the early 1980s until now. It can refer to music made by singers as well as djs (rappers). It can also refer to digital as well as non-digital music as early dancehall was non-digital. The dancehall sound has changed dramatically over the years. In 1985 fully synthesized music was introduced with the "sleng teng" riddim. Modern dancehall music sometimes incorporates influences as diverse as country, techno, and hiphop. Since dancehall refers to a broad range and time-period of music, the term "ragga" is an attempt at disambiguation by the British. It is not used in Jamaica. --Selector rebellion 16:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Well Ragga is (in Europe at least) Dancehall vs (merged with) Hiphouse, Electro/Techno or Breakbeat/Jungle. Ragga is also known as Ragga House. Ragamuffin is a term and style of rapping with the music of Dancehall and somtimes used for Dancehall music that was not standard style of that moment it was made or even to commercial.. That term is also sometimes called for short Ragga.. Dolfy 23:49, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

while "ragga" does identify a specific subset of what is broadly considered "dancehall" music it is not a term used by actual participants in the reggae industry. No one in Jamaica uses this term to describe a sub-genre of Jamaica- as was pointed out its use seems to have originated in the UK and been broadly adopted by everyone BUT actually reggae/dancehall artists, producers, djs, etc.

at the same time, "dancehall" in jamaica in the broadest sense refers to any music that is played in the dancehall, i.e. functions where people dance- parties, sessions, dances, clashes, etc.- i find people tend to refer to "dancehall" seperately from "reggae" when they have some favour for the latter Engineroom 02:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

This debate has been going on for a long time - over a year in fact is it time to close it down one way or the other. If it's tagged to be merged that will prevent people (including me) from spending time editing an article that may be merged. Time to bite the bullet and remove the tag or merge??? Escaper7 08:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think the articles shouldn't definitely both start with Sleng Teng, in any case, so we have to find a solution for that. As for the definition of ragga itself, maybe we could include that the term isn't used at all in Jamaica if that's true - don't they differentiate between dj/toaster based dancehall and singer based dancehall at all?

Wathiik 12:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree at all with this statement: "Well Ragga is (in Europe at least) Dancehall vs (merged with) Hiphouse, Electro/Techno or Breakbeat/Jungle." Those mixed forms are known as ragga house, ragga hip hop and so forth, but I'm sure no one would actually call the music of Mad Lion or the Freestylers (who often use ragga vocals) ragga per se. So all in all I think the article should reflect the usage of the term. That the term isn't used by the musicians themselves or isn't used in Jamaica is interesting, but it's beside the point, since musicians aren't scholars or critics, and it's usually the critics and other people who listen to the music who come up with the terminology.

Even if the terminology is not very useful (which seems to be the case, because singing vs deejaying isn't that much, then again, look at R&B and hip hop - very often the difference is only singing vs rapping...), it exists and it matters to non-Jamaican audiences, it matters in the way they view dancehall etc. The wiki should reflect that. Also, why and how did they create the terminology? Wathiik 13:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I added some info now; however, it would be good if there's a link or something, some kind of verification. I'll also try to find some info in my reggae books. Wathiik 16:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Not surprisingly, Stasha Bader doesn't mention the term ragga at all in his book "Worte wie Feuer", however, music journo Guenter Jacob uses the term quite a bit in the introduction. It would be intertesting how the term raggamuffin is used in Jamaica, and the article should definitely contain some info on that. My guess is that a raggamuffin is kinda like a rude boy, but again, I'm just guessing. Apart from that, the ragga article should be there, but there should be no or less overlaps with the dancehall article. Wathiik 12:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Surely it should be merged and be called 'Dancehall (also known as Ragga in UK/Europe)?' Jamaicans dont use the word to describe the music - raggamuffin is used to describe a rudeboy/girl. Ragga hip-hop, ragga jungle etc don't mean that it should be a different category as these are all essentially just dancehall hip-hop etc. It just doesn't seem to make much sense having a seperate category. User:jdavies555 21:00, 25 October 2006

[edit] Vote on Merge

Shall we just have a simple vote that closes in a couple of weeks? It takes ages to wade trhough the comments above, some of which are unsigned...Escaper7 10:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Not a massive take up on this, makes me wonder why it was ever suggested for a merge. Shall we give it until the last day of October 2006 and see how it looks then? Please add comment directly below - follow the layout beneath that if you're simply voting on the merge. Escaper7 12:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• Yes to the merge John Eden 10:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yes to the merge. They are complete synonyms. Ragga is simply the UK name for Dancehall. In JA they wouldnt know what you were talking about if you said 'Ragga music'. jdavies555 24 Sept 2006

• No Definetly not merge.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.197.62.135 (talk • contribs). of 12.06.06

• No Wathiik 13:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• Yes to the merge. They are both very similar, and it would make a much better article if both were included. Cainer⁹¹ 20:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• No don't merge.As i know ragga is more of the younger dee jays chantinting to a riddim with a few rhymes. Yesteryear djs e.g Yellowman, Shabba Ranks, Super Cat etc were ragga artist. But for dancehall, to my understanding, is more of a rhythmic, slowish songs with a definate tune e.g of artists Freddie McGregor, Glen Washington etc

Yes - I am convinced that Yellowman, Shabba & SuperCat would refer to themselves as dancehall (or reggae) articts but certainly not 'ragga artists'. [jdavies555]

• No - the Ragga article is long enough to justify its own existence. Merging that in with Dancehall would be a problem as both articles are of equal length. — superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 16:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

• No Jamaican music has gone thro many distinct stages over it's four decades or so since Independence; ska, reggae, roots, dub, dancehall and now ragga. These are all different and should be considered as such. SmokeyTheCat 12:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)