Talk:Rabbitbrush

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[edit] Disambiguation page

I changed this page that was formerly a redirect to a disambiguation page. The discussion below was copied from Talk:Chrysothamnus --Walter Siegmund (talk) 23:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

How bout create a "Rabbitbrush" article, with these Chrysothamnus species and those from Ericameria such as nauseosus that also go by "rabbitbrush". I think nauseosus is the thing most commonly thought of as rabbitbrush (at least by laymen like me), so the current situation with Rabbitbrush redirecting here is not so good. Toiyabe 21:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the answer to this, but it must have happened before. I'll ask MPF to take a look. I think that a disambiguation page WP:D is the Wikipedia standard solution. Thank you for bringing this up. Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 21:48, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

One solution would be to have Rabbitbrush redirect to Ericameria nauseosus (once it's written, of course) along with a disambig notice and page listing other species that have rabbitbrush as part of their common name. That's based on the assumption that E. nauseosus is the most prominent rabbitbrush, which I may well be wrong about. If that is a good solution, it probably should also be applied Sagebrush and Artemisia tridentata. Toiyabe 22:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd make rabbitbrush into a disambig, along the same lines as e.g. thistle, cypress and hawthorn, with all the species and genus pages at their scientific names - MPF 22:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

That is very helpful. I've started a disambiguation page using hawthorn as a model. Hopefully, it will solve the immediate problem. I'm not sure that E. nauseosus dominates the rabbitbrush species; my impression is that C. viscidiflorus is quite widespread and superficially quite similar to the former. However, I will be the first to admit that I know very little about these genera; they don't grow where I live. Walter Siegmund (talk) 22:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm made some changes to address the issue raised by Toiyabe. Please take a look and comment, modify, adjust, etc., as you see fit. Thank you both for your comments. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 23:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks good. Thanks! I can identify some things as rabbitbrush in the field, but can't differentiate the species. Guess I'll have to check some books out of the library. The cultural note I wanted to add is that an abundance of rabbitbrush is associated with overgrazing as it is highly unpalatable to livestock. I know that applies to E. nauseosus, not sure about the others, though. Toiyabe 01:14, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New stubs

We should stub E. nauseosus and C. viscidiflorus before too long. They really deserve their own articles, I think.
That is interesting about the unpalatabily of the folliage; I wonder if fire suppression plays a roll as well? My memory is that C. viscidiflorus has wider leaves that often have a longitudinal twist or curl. All this is more material for an article. Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 01:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Rabbitbrush (again not certain if all species) is pretty fire tolerant, as it can root-sprout. Also more common to see it on disturbed sites such as next to roads. There are other native perenial shrubs in the same habitat such as ephedra that are also fire tolerant, however I can't think of one that is also highly resistant to grazing. It's a pioneer which under stable conditions slowly gets out-competed by sagebrush. Toiyabe 17:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

That is very interesting because of the importance of these species to such a large region. Junipers thrive in the absence of fire and affect the ecosystem because of their size and deep root system. Do you have Utah Juniper there? --Walter Siegmund (talk) 20:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The pictures in the Utah Juniper article are taken in my back yard (~20 miles north of Reno). I live at the lower edge of the Juniper zone (not much Pinyon this far north). I'm not sure when the last fire was - some of the living Junipers have fire damage, and there's some fire-killed trees. Probably at least 10 years ago. My guess is that the junipers are slowly pushing back down the slope after that fire, faster in the wetter areas and slower in the dry areas. I also have rabbitbrush on the property, but mostly sagebrush.

I'm not sure if the only thing advantage sagebrush has over Juniper is reestablishment after fire. Due to inversions, the mid-slope areas where Juniper is most common also have a more moderate climate then the valley and lower slopes. In the valley bottoms you generally have a fine-grained alkaline soil which neither Juniper nor sagebrush like. Without fire you might get Juniper everywhere that sagebrush currently dominates, or there might still be a band where sagebrush is the climax species because of temperature or moisture conditions. Toiyabe 21:00, 6 February 2006 (UTC)