Talk:Qilin
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NOTE:Due to the existance of Qilin as a redirect to Kirin I was not able to easily move the Kirin page (it trips over the redirect). Rather than enlist the aid of an administrator I copy-paste moved the contents. The History of the Qilin page prior to this move will be found in the Kirin page, now a disambiguation, and similarly for the history of the talk, it is on Talk:Kirin, now a redirect to this page. Leonard G. 05:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
A kirin is a specifically Japanese version of the original Chinese ky-lin that is being discussed in this article. This article should be retitled, with Kirin as a redirect. Wetman 19:46, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Pictures of Japanese version are needed. Since the beast has the same characteristics in multiple cultures (if not appearance), the inclusion into a single article seems appropriate to me. Articles can become overly fragmented by cultural choices. As the two examples are chinese, perhaps the whole article could be moved to Qilin. You might want to poll the other major contributors.
- Leonard G. 19:56, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
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- I'm generally against splitting and all for context myself. I didn't intend to make any hasty move myself, as I'm quite ignorant here. Wetman 20:00, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I agree with Leonard that if kirin and qilin has the same origin and base of mythology but only differ in regional appearance variation -- It is not very good to separate similar things up. A lot of redundancies will occur in kirin and qilin if they are separated. For example, the Chinese goddess of mercy Guanyin and its Japanese version (Kannon) are described on the same page.
I never saw a Japanese kirin depiction before, but according to OED, it's basically the same:
Kirin [Jap., f. Chinese (see KYLIN).], A fabulous beast of composite form, freq. portrayed in Japanese pottery and art (see quots.); = KYLIN.
1900 F. LITCHFIELD Pott. & Porc. vii. 172 Figure subjects are not common in this kind of china, but one finds representations of..the Kirin.., a monster with the body and hoofs of a deer, the tail of a bull, and a horn on his forehead.
Just for comparison, OED's entry on kylin:
Kylin, [ad. Chinese chi-lin (Wade), f. chi male + lin female.]
A fabulous animal of composite form, commonly figured on Chinese and Japanese pottery. According to the Erh Ya, it has the body of a deer, the tail of an ox, and a single horn, from which it is often called the Chinese Unicorn’ (Mayers' Chinese Reader's Man., Shanghai, 1874, 127).
As to the title, I don't feel strongly either way. But qilin is probably more suitable, even if this page describes kirin as well (not that it differs much, according to OED). Because qilin, the Chinese version, is the original "ancestor" version. --Menchi 20:53, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'll move the page if no one else does, the only question is which is the appropriate romanization in Chinese. I leave that up to those more expert in this matter. Post here, or just relocate the page. I can track down the links to avoid needed redirects where encounterd. It seems that the Kirin entry, rather than a redirect, should be a disambiguation - that way we don't have to mention beer on this page. Then we could chase down kirin links and direct them (hidden) to qilin (or whatever is chosen for this page). We still need a Kirin image - can we find anyone with this? Next time I go on tour I will post an itinerary and ask for picture requests. Now that I am editing I can recall sooo many things that I coulda, woulda, shoulda taken pictures of, but saw no need for my particular shows. Leonard G. 02:50, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
See move note at top of page Leonard G. 05:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I went through all links to Kirin.
- Japanese reference to Kirin beer - no change, goes to Kirin disambiguation page.
- Chinese references to Kirin - changed to Qilin
- Japanese references to Kirin beast, changed to hidden link to Qilin
- Chinese references to Kirin town - no change, goes to Kirin disambiguation page
I believe that the move is now complete. Leonard G. 06:12, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
[edit] spelling
Where does the spelling "ki'lin" come from? All other spellings is associated with which dialog it comes from except this one. Is it WG? I'd prefer the pinyin spelling. I am surprised that most mysterous spelling becomes the default spelling throughout the whole article. Kowloonese 02:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Kilin/giraffe text from Unicorn
The folowing was straying too far from the subject Unicorn (Wetman 17:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)):
- The qilin (麒麟, Chinese), a creature in Chinese myth, is sometimes called "the Chinese unicorn", but it is not directly related to the classical Western unicorn, having the body of a deer, the head of a lion, green scales and a long forth-curved horn. Historically in China, the word "qilin" was used to mean the giraffe. Currently, the word "kirin", in Japan, written with the same Chinese ideograms, is still used to designate the giraffe as well as the mythical creature. Curiously, the Japanese mythological creature is usually portrayed as more closely resembling the Western Unicorn than the Chinese qilin, even though based on the Chinese myth.
