Talk:Pygmalion effect
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I removed the following from the article:
- Translated into a wikipedian setting: Wikipedia users will behave because Wikipedia expects them to.
See Wikipedia:Avoid self-references. fabiform | talk 02:31, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
[edit] page flow
it seems there are distinct separate sections to this article, but no flow between them. Precisely why George Bernhard Shaw's play is referenced is unclear; additionally, to one who understands the reference, it becomes apparent that the article illogically flows from etymology --> definition --> term explanation. There ought either be section headings denoting the shift or at least a better transition between the separate article parts. Also, we should mention that this is Cooley's (and to some extent Mead's) term. (references, Earl Babbie: "The Practice of Social Research" 10th Ed., page 235). Jxn 07:07, 2005 Apr 14 (UTC)
Why does it say that the effect is named after the Greek myth of Pygmalion, whereas the only example which clarifies the allusion is taken out of Bernard Shaw's work, with no direct connection between the example and the myth?
[edit] Incomplete description
There's a fuller description at the new Hawthorne effect article.
Also, the derivation of the name is less important then the effect itself.
And is this "effect" mainly speculation based on a single study, or what?
Last, but not least: what are the implications for teaching and learning in schools? If expectation is a significant factor, can it be managed to improve student achievement? Or can improper expectations be reduced?
I'm particularly interested in how the teacher's hopes affect the student. Given the materialistic view of human beings, one might expect that "only behavior" can be measured or studied. But simply deciding to "think about a matter" a certain way is possible.
- I decided this wasn't going to work; i.e., that it was useless
- Kelly decided that the best thing was for her to become a violinist; her grandfather said she had a talent for it.
Mark Twain said he could "live for two months on a compliment" (like it was a kind of food!).
And why do coaches or parents tell children, "You can do it!"? Does instilling confidence really have an effect on performance?
Why are some teachers or coaches significantly better than others? Some, spectacular so.
A related question is: why have teachers in many American cities formed labor unions which insist on contracts which adamantly refuse to allow any form of merit pay and insist on a pure seniority system? You get paid based on "qualifications", i.e., diplomas and certificates, but mostly on how many years you've been on the job. In NYC you start at around 35K and work up to around 90K.
But how well you teach is not measured or tracked, and has no bearing on you job assignments, your influence on curriculum, or your paycheck.
In private schools, a teacher will be paid, promoted or fired mainly on results. Entire schools are judged based on results: i.e., I send my child to Philips Exeter Academy because he'll learn more there.
Perhaps the entire school uses the Pygmalion effect? You were chosen for this school because you're the best => the student feels the confidence teachers have in him, so really applies himself. Uncle Ed 11:26, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Comment by Rosenthal
"The most surprising finding in our research," says Rosenthal, "has to do with what we called the 'psychological hazards' of unexpected intellectual growth." When so-called "lower track" students in the control group at Oak School (students who were not expected to shine) began to show marked improvement and growth, their teacher evaluations on such things as "personal adjustment," "happiness," "affectionate" declined. Says Rosenthal: "If the world thinks little of you, it's going to punish you if you begin to succeed." [1]
[edit] Stanford
- In 1968 Harvard professor, Robert Rosenthal published, Pygmalion in the
Classroom: Teacher Expectation and Pupils' Intellectual Development (1968; expanded edition 1992). The book caused quite a stir with its basic conclusion, "when teachers expect students to do well and show intellectual growth, they do; when teachers do not have such expectations, performance and growth are not so encouraged and may in fact be discouraged in a variety of ways." [2]
[edit] Fiction
In Destry Rides Again the hero convinces the corrupt showgirl to stop helping the gang of murderers by expressing his expectation that she's "different", "better than that" - and then she lives up to his expectation. Uncle Ed 12:05, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Deleted text
[edit] Oak School study
In a study by two psychologists Robert Rosenthal and Lenore Jacobson (1968), published in their book Pygmalion in the Classroom, the experimenters told teachers that twenty percent of the children in a certain school showed unusual potential for intellectual growth. The names of 20 percent of the students were selected randomly, and revealed to the teachers. Eight months later, the chosen children showed significantly greater gains in IQ than the children who had not been showered with attention.
[edit] Future Earnings Potential
I heard about a study a few years ago that studied future earnings potential in 8th graders. They asked 8th graders a bunch of questions and looked back years later to compare their 8th grade answers with their wages. It turns out that high wages were more correlated to how much money the student expected to be earning than their grades, test scores, sex, race, etc. Unfortunately I am unable to find this study, but maybe someone else has heard of it.
[edit] Problems with Pygmalion
While Rosenthal's study is famous, there is no mention in the main article of the strong critiques his methodology later was subject to. In fact, the results of this entire study were called into serious question. That is not to say that the Pygmalion effect is not a true effect, but questions about the study should be mentioned here for balance.
[edit] Proposed Merge
If there is any merge at all, this should be merged with "Self-fulfilling prophecy", as this is only one instance of that. Goldfritha 22:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Clean up template
I added the clean up template because the second section is written in first person. IANAE on Wikipedia style guidelines, but I know an encyclopedia shouldn't be written in first person!
[edit] is there a different pygmalion effect
I don't really see how this relates to the original myth of pygmalion. Also, whenever I hear of the "pygmalion effect" it has always been described as a person trying to make a different person more like themselves; for instance: trying to get your girlfriend to like the same music as you do. Or, I suppose, in a greater sense, trying to get a person to think the same way you do. I heard this in literature class. Has anyone else heard this, and if so, does it go by a different name than "pygmalion effect"? Rebent 15:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
