Category talk:Purportedly linguistic apes

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[edit] Name Change

I agree that a list of language trained apes should exist, but this title is problematic. Who is purporting that these are linguistic apes? The success of ape-language projects is the subject of scientific debate, and there are notable scientists on both sides. The phrase "purportedly linguistic" is decidely partial to one side of that debate, as "puported" means "to have a specious appearence of being" (Websters). Such a characterization of ape-language aptitude is not neutral. I propose "Ape-Language Projects", "Ape-language research", or "Language-Project Apes" as possible new category titles. Cmart 17:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Cmart. As I stated on my talk page, I agree that that the name of the category raises concerns and would happily endorse a suggestion for a better, more neutral-sounding name. Of the proposals you listed, I like "Language project apes" (without the hpyhen). I'd be interested to hear other ideas.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 11:57, 6 March 2007

"Language project apes" doesn't sound too good either. I would propose "Animal-language research" or "Ape-language research" myself. Also, placing this as a subcategory of "Animal Intelligence" is a bit POV also... Would "Dog Tricks" be listed under "Animal Intelligence"? There is one side of the argument that sees Ape linguistic communication as no better than operative conditioning, and not a part of "intelligence". --Puellanivis 20:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Answer to my question: No, Category:Dog training and behavior is not under Category:Animal intelligence. --Puellanivis 20:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The researchers who studied the linguistic abilities of these apes refer to their efforts as "Ape-language projects" in the scientific literature. For this reason, I think "Ape-language projects" is the most fitting, but I would also be satisfied with "Language project apes". Cmart 12:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The category was mainly intended as a convenient way to associate specific, individual apes (Koko, Kanzi et al) who were the subject of great ape language research--thus I prefer the name "Language project apes" to "Ape-language research," because of the emphasis on the individual animals being categorized.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 12:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Fat Man, I see your point and agree with you. My final vote is for "Language project apes". Cmart 15:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

As a native speaker of English, "language project" seems like too "heavy" of a adjectival phrase. In order to focus specifically upon the Apes involved in the project, I'd prefer "Apes from language projects" or something like that.

It's something I'm aware of as a speaker of German. While German would prefer the phrase "the left-turning bus", English would prefer "the bus, which is turning left" Basically, if the adjectival phrase gets too "heavy", or complex, it's prefered to change it around to a descriptive dependent clause.

Also, starting with "apes" would keep a parallel with the "people-focused" disease description commonly adopted in modern medical literature. A "person with blindness", not a "blind person", etc. (The only two acceptions tend to be: deafness, and HF autism/Asperger's, where the issue is considered a culturally significant identifier) This places an emphasis in English of focusing the connotations of the phrase onto the person/ape and not the illness, trait autc.

"Language project" in "Language project apes" is not a heavy adjective phrase, in fact its not an adjective phrase at all. It is an attributive noun phrase, as "language project" is a recognized proper noun within the scientific literature. Please see adjective for details. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cmart1 (talk • contribs) 16:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

One problem here might be that people outside of the research community are unaware of the term "language project". How about "Apes from language studies"? This keeps it ape-centric, per Puellanivis suggestion.Cmart 17:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)