User talk:Pro crast in a tor
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Blah blah blah. I guess this is the comment and complaint department for one Pro crast in a tor.
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[edit] Integral Wiki deletion
Hi, I put it there to show the contrast and similarities to the page, I find it striking. As for the edit war between me and goethean that shall last for some time to come, until he has decent respect for me as an editor, until he becomes more realistic about "the vision" of his page. So yes, once again it degenerated into edit battle with goethean, but I contend I did not throw the first shot. -ForrestLane42 03:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)ForrestLane42
The comparison seems moot to me: why should we care what other pages look like? Personally, I didn't bother to look at it, and it seems goethean took some offense at what was said, so overall it was just reducing the signal-to-noise ratio, and I removed it. Pro crast in a tor 03:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry u see it as moot, but shouldn't others get to decide?? goethean takes offense to anyone other than himself - whatever I said, he would have gone crazy over. i just think that looking at both pages might help to enlighten the situation, sorry u differ. -ForrestLane42 04:57, 21 December 2006 (UTC)ForrestLane42
[edit] Goethean and ForrestLane42
Recently, Goethean and ForrestLane42 have both come to me for administrator mediation of sorts, each accusing the other of various wrongdoing (personal attacks, harassment, etc.). I noted that you have worked with both of these editors on Ken Wilbur, and I would like to hear your point of view regarding these two and their volatile relationship. If you are uncomfortable with discussing this on the wiki, feel free to email me. Thanks, Larry V (talk | contribs) 09:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hi Larry V, nice to meet you. I'm not sure what I can do to address your request: everything I can see on the Ken Wilbur pages and the editor's respective pages, are also available for you to see. But I can pontificate on what I've seen, and am happy to do so in a public forum, I follow the the WP:DGAF, and find the whole thing pretty amusing. Hilarious, even.
- From what I can tell, Goethean is determined to document Integral theory, and ForrestLane42 is challenging the notability of most everything Goethean is trying to do, as he believes most of this theory is not notable. Note that I'm basing this on just three or four pages I've seen: I have no idea if this is a representative sample of their interactions.
- I think Goethean tends to be too verbose and inclusive in his editing, with a POV showing at times. I think ForrestLane42 tends to be too strict in his interpretation of notability (showing his POV) and is quick to take offense, with the additional baggage of not being a very strong editor. Watching these type archetypes battle it out is like a novel that writes itself.
- As is usually the case, I'm pretty sure the truth lies somewhere in between. I think ForrestLane42 needs to discuss edits and deletes more on the talk page, as you have mentioned, and especially to ask on the talk page before adding new tags because he's a junior editor and seems to get it wrong more often than not. It would also be helpful if Goethean presented a more NPOV when editing so ForrestLane42 wasn't right as often about his POV showing, including POV by omission of criticism and POV by subject verbosity (drowning out everything else). As an example, AQAL by Goethean has no criticism section, even though critiques of AQAL are easy to find, making the article POV IMHO. But if ForrestLane42 were to tag it as POV (which is what he'd probably do, rather than actually fix it by adding a criticism section), he'd be right, but they'd be off to the races and would need someone else to step in because neither one will actually fix the article. At least, that's how I'd envision it happening if I were writing the story, but I don't think it'd be too far off. Pro crast in a tor 11:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC) (and amused that he's spent more time on the Ken Wilber article than on his books at this point)
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- Hi Larry V, you asked me about this on my talk page, and Pro crast in a tor kindly invited me to centralize the discussion here, so here I am. I'm not a devotee of integral theory, so I can't say anything about POV or content, but it's clear these two have it in for each other, and are semi-stalking each other, and when they collide it tends to result in a series of secondary explosions on talk pages and admin notice boards, etc. But it's not all that bad. It's childish and also (as Pro says) kind of amusing. But I don't think it's at the point of sanctions yet — neither of them is a vandal, they just have what might be called maturity problems. ForrestLane42 also has a bit of a literacy problem — it's sometimes hard to discern what he's trying to say — so he seems to find it easier to add tags rather than text to articles, and goethean, in turn, baits him with unnecessarily florid language (e.g. "You seem to have declined to rebut my supposition in regard to your motivations for the nomination," which utterly cracked me up). Anyhow, I think they just need to be gently admonished. Eventually it will get through to them that this war is uninteresting, and they will disengage and go on to do productive work. At least that's what I hope. Cheers, Eleuther 14:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Request for Mediation
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Ken Wilber, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.
[edit] RFC
Please comment at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/ForrestLane42. — goethean ॐ 15:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] What's spam/what's not
With regard to our recent conversation over in the at Hot tub, I often have a very hard time deciding what's linkspam and what's not and which links should be allowed to "sneak by" and which shouldn't. But the test I've been using more and more is "Would this list grow out of control?"
So, for a (hypothetical example), if I was looking at the Atomic absorption spectroscopy article and I saw a set of links to the vendors of such devices, I'd be tempted to leave the links because there just aren't that many vendors of such gadgets; how big could the list grow? And people might have a genuine need to find these vendors.
But for hot tubs, I know that there are many, many manufacturers and seemingly millions of dealers, and if we let one in, then the next thing you know, there are a hundred links and everyone wants to know why we're deleting their link but not the link to Harry's Hot Tub Emporium and Bikini Shop. So for that kind of article, I tend to be ruthless, routinely eliminating all the external links even when they contain some useful data (as the rotomolding link did). The Rolex article goes through the same sorts of cycling.
None of this is any official policy, of course, just some heuristics I've developed after editing here for a while.
Atlant 13:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Request for Mediation
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A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Ken Wilber.
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