Talk:Presidential $1 Coin Program

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True or false: the coins in this act will include pictures of all the Presidents from Washington to Nixon and Reagan. 66.245.127.112 23:44, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

True Juppiter 18:52, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The above should probably be included in the article. I'll add it, but I have some assumptions I'd like verified. One has to be dead to be included on a coin, I'm quite certain, so if this bill had gone through and, say, Ford were to die soon, he would be included in the series as well, right? Or would he have to be dead for a certain length of time? -R. fiend 23:26, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

From what I've heard, it will be all presidents, including those that are currently alive, such as the Bushes. It's thus quite likely that it will break the custom of only dead people on the money. I don't have references for this, though, so it shouldn't be added unless it can be verified or discredited Nik42 22:57, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm looking right now at the text of the bill, and it says all $1 coins issued on and after January 1, 2006, shall have a design on the obverse selected in accordance with paragraph (2)(B), which is emblematic of a deceased former President of the United States, and a design on the reverse selected in accordance with paragraph (2)(A). (emphasis mine) So, it looks like living former Presidents will not, in fact, be on the coins [1] Nik42 07:47, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Now it is the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005. It has passed the House and at the time of this post, is in a Senate committee. 24.54.208.177 05:03, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

The theoretical timeline does not take into account that Grover Cleveland will be honored twice, having served two non-consecutive terms (according to the plain language of the House bill). Also, although the current custom is to not issue coins featuring living persons, the law would require the Mint to issue coins featuring living former presidents at the time their place in the sequence was reached, notwithstanding the custom. These two things should be updated when the entry is moved. Jwolfe 12:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if it would actually stop with George W Bush, or if it would be extended to include whichever Presidents follow him ... Nik42 04:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] George Washington dollar

Any info on what the George Washington dollar that will be the first of the dollars in this sequence will look like?? Feel free to put any info, including whether it is silver or gold, in your list. Georgia guy 22:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Future presidents

OK, we know the series is going to go at least until 2016 and maybe into 2017, depending on how many past presidents pass away between now and then. But being the slightly anal-retentive nitpicker that I am (and God loves me for it), I'm compelled to ask this question.

Does the Act provide for any future presidents to be included in the set? Between now and 2016 we'll have had at least two, maybe three new presidents in our nation's history (and perhaps more, in the event that one dies in office or resigns). Let's say, theoretically, that President X, newly elected President in the 2008 election, dies of pneumonia shortly after taking office. Would President X be included in the set eight years later, or does the act only allow for the possibility of everyone up to and including George W. Bush to be in the set? ekedolphin 04:52, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, nevermind. Just read part of a sentence that I'd missed the first time, and my answer, apparently, is yes. Reading is fundamental.  :D ekedolphin 04:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

How shortly? Are we talking dethroning William Henry Harrison?

Immediately after finishing the Oath of Office, he drops dead of a heart attack.  ;-) Nik42 05:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing most of the following will have kicked the bucket in time: Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush. Also, William Henry Harrison was the greatest president. --Kalmia 08:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What color?

What color will the coin be? 71.199.123.24 07:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleveland counted twice

As mentioned above but starting a new section for it: will Cleveland get two coins? I can't image that he would but stranger/odder things have happened. :) Cburnett 23:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, here we go 31 USC 5112(n)(3)(B):

(i) IN GENERAL- Subject to clause (ii), only 1 coin design shall be issued for a period of service for any President, no matter how many consecutive terms of office the President served.

(ii) NONCONSECUTIVE TERMS- If a President has served during 2 or more nonconsecutive periods of service, a coin shall be issued under this subsection for each such nonconsecutive period of service.

Cburnett 23:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, is it yet known whether the 2 Cleveland coins will look different?? According to the rule of when they will be released, they will be in the spring and fall of 2012, respectively. Georgia guy 18:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I hope it doesn't look like a quarter

The day I gave away a sacagawea dollar thinking it was a quarter is the day I stopped using them. They really need to differentiate them more. And considering the first one will have George Washingtons portrait on it...

I dont know how you could have done it, since theyre different colors. Assuming the rpesidentital cards will also be gold, there shouldnt be a problem. Also, dont forget to sign your comments. Jamesinclair 05:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention having a smooth edge and a very different design, plus being noticeably larger. Nik42 08:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image release

[2] I'm not too familiar with editing coin pages, so here's a launching point to update. Zz414 14:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First U.S. coin with numerical value?

I note that the denomination is shown as "$1" and not "One Dollar." All other current U.S. coins state their value in words only (One Cent, Five Cents, One Dime, Quarter Dollar, etc.). Is this the first time a number has been used instead? If so, this ought to be mentioned.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 09:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I remember seeing an old nickel with a roman numeral "V", does that count? Some of the bullion coins currently being minted use numerals, but that's not quite the same as a circulating coins. With all the circulating coins that have been issued by the U.S. Mint in the last couple of centuries, I would think at least one of them would have used numerals. It might take a bit of numistmatic research to verify such a thing.

Oops, forgot to sign the previous comment. I found an example of a U.S. coin with a number. The shield nickel. Jwolfe 14:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, capped bust silver coinage used numerals and early cents and half cents used a 1/100 or 1/200 fraction. --Kurt 00:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The one with the 'V' is the Liberty Head nickel. Coemgenus 16:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First U.S. money with "$" sign?

I thought I read it somewhere, maybe Coin World, that this will be the first time the actual dollar sign will be used on American money, paper or coin. Is that true? I can't find any research on that. The BEP and Mint's websites have nothing and Google won't allow a "$" character search. Any experts out there? This should get a trivia mention in a number of wiki articles if true. 209.26.38.244 18:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It's the first coin for sure. Some early nineteenth century coins used "c" for cents, but that's the closest any US coinage has had to currency symbols. I'm fairly sure there haven't been any paper money with the dollar sign, but I'm not 100% positive. Nik42 02:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE - I found a Coin World article from April 20, 2004 that says it has appeared on a U.S. coin. Quote below. 209.26.38.244 14:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, correction, then, it's the first circulating coin for sure. Nik42 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Another Update - Yes it seems so. The 2007 U.S. Presidential dollar coins use is the first appearance on a circulating U.S. coin issued by the federal government. See the second article excerpt below. Any editors out there can use this article as a reference to revise the article if they want to. The article was all about the history of the dollar sign, U.S. and internationally. I've added this excerpt to the talk page at $ sign also.209.26.38.244

[edit] Update list for Gerald Ford

He died around 11:00PM on the 26th of december. he will be right behind regan

Since the presidents must be depicted in consecutive order, Reagan would be ineligible unless Carter passes away before 2014, as Carter's ineligibility due to longevity would put a chronological gap between Ford and Reagan. If the gap was ignored, then only one coin would have sufficed for Grover Cleveland in the first place (had the Act not specified two for his unique situation). The series schedule listed on the US Mint's website extends only to Richard Nixon, but should contain Ford as well (http://usmint.gov/mint_programs/$1coin/index.cfm?action=schedule) and Reagan is not listed. - Deeplogic 19:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Where do you get that idea from? Section 102 (2)(E):

(E) LIMITATION IN SERIES TO DECEASED PRESIDENTS- No coin issued under this subsection may bear the image of a living former or current President, or of any deceased former President during the 2-year period following the date of the death of that President.

and section 102 (3)(A):

(A) ORDER OF ISSUANCE- The coins issued under this subsection commemorating Presidents of the United States shall be issued in the order of the period of service of each President, beginning with President George Washington.

and section 102 (8):

(8) TERMINATION OF PROGRAM- The issuance of coins under this subsection shall terminate when each President has been so honored, subject to paragraph (2)(E), and may not be resumed except by an Act of Congress.

I see nothing mentioning an inter-dependence of presidents. If a president has been dead for 2+ years at the time when his coin would be issued then he gets a coin, otherwise he is skipped. There is no requirement that Carter must die before Reagan can get one. If GW Bush were to die tomorrow then he'd get a coin (it'll take more than 2 years to get to him) despite, Clinton, G H Bush, etc. still being alive. I find nothing to support your assertion. Cburnett 05:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Detail on First Spouse Program at US Mint

I added a new section for the detail now provided on the US Mint website for the "First Spouse Program". I didn't reproduce the entire schedule & table, with coin images, because I wasn't sure whether or not it deserved its own page, or a really large section of this one. I'm new to Wikipedia editing, so I figured I'd start with the basics, and experts would jump in with the full detail.

[edit] It seems the US mint will never learn...

No one is going to use dollar coins unless they stop printing dollar bills. Strad 16:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The United States Mint does not make those decisions, the United States Congress does. Jwolfe 18:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Congress, then. Whoever's in charge of this doesn't seem to learn from history. Strad 21:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. It's all driven by the irrational public who wants to keep the dollar bill. Additional millions of tax money is spent because of this. I've been a long proponent of replacing the dollar bill to dollar coin (USD). --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC

Stopping the penny would probably help the $1 coin the most - there will be a free slot for it in the change draw. Sad mouse 22:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

There already is. Every cash register I've ever seen has five coin slots, but only four of them are used. Nik42 06:25, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The irrational public? Where in your wallet do you have space for 4+ One dollar coins? Does the soda machine at your workplace accept $1 coins? Do you realize how easy it is to lose a coin? What are we supposed to do, carry around a pouch full of coins on our belt? JudgeX 16:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I keep dollar coins in the same place I keep my pennies, nickles, dimes and quarters (and why would I have "4+"? Five dollar coins would be the same as a $5 bill). Every vending machine takes $1 coins. Next time you get a dollar coin, try it, you'll see! It's so much more convenient to put a $1 coin in instead of a dollar bill, bill acceptors being notoriously finicky, or having to break a bill into quarters. Now, if only they'd update those machines to take $5's, and dispense dollar coins in change, we'd be set. Most countries have no problem with coins of similar value. Canada even has $2 coins, the EU likewise has one and two-euro coins, and Japan has a 500 yen coin, worth a bit over US$4. For that matter, with the exception of the short-lived fractional notes of the Civil War era, the US has always $1 as its smallest bill, despite the fact that $1 today is worth about 5 cents in 1900 money. Think about that! People in 1900 had no trouble with using quarters and half-dollars equal to about $5 and $10 in today's money! You're complaining about getting rid of the 1900-equivalent of a 5-cent bill. Nik42 22:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

No, really, I prefer not to have change on me at all. It is jingly, loud, easy to drop and lose, and harder to sort when trying to pay for something. I take all my change and store it in a jar that sits on my desk until I can get it converted to bills, or end up using it all for parking meters and < $1 cola machines. Coins are alright, but since I have to have a wallet anyway to hold my 6,255 ID cards for various places as well as insurance info and all the other CRAP we have to haul around to be able to function in society, that's where I'd like to go ahead and keep my money. Coins don't go in there. When I get home I can whip my wallet out and throw it down and I am "disarmed", the change from my pocket (if any, since I usually use a debit card), jingles into the jar and I am done. I don't want an extra step in there of "oh now i have to sort my extra, non-disposable coinage"... which would mean i'd actually have to look at each grouping of coins and pick out the valuable ones and such... no way. You may enjoy coins and like looking at them and sorting them, but I think you're the one that's backwards. Coins = the past. Paper = the present. Plastic = the present and some future, and who knows what the future will hold?

Here's another one for you, Nik42, when I get back a 10, a 5, and 3 ones, I can actually sort those into my wallet with ease. 10's go in the back with the big bills, 5's in the middle, and 1's up front. This gives me quick access to the right amount of money. How, pray tell, do you quickly pay at a convenience store a sum of say, 7 dollars and 47 cents? Do you fish out your wallet and dig into a pocket for coins simultaneously? Do you sift through your magical 1 and 5 dollar coins and choose the right ones and then go for correct change as well? As for me, I grab a bill from the middle and 3 from the front, or 2 from the middle if I'm lazy, slap it down, slam the $1's (if any) that I get back into my wallet, dump the mixed change into a pocket and I'm out. I'm not down with the magical coins man. You're free to use them... it's a free country and I'll put my life on the line for ya to be able to use your damn favorite coins, man, but, count me out. JudgeX 22:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

When did I say anything about $5 coins? Yes, I do use both coins and bills when I pay for things. All I'm saying is that other countries have no problem using coins that actually have some value. Canadians have no problem with $5 being their smallest bill. Same with Brits and £5 or the Japanese with 1000 yen. If the government dropped the dollar bill, you'd get used to dollar coins pretty quickly. My wallet has a pocket for coins. So, to pay, say, $7.47, I open up the coin part, get out a few coins, and then get out some bills. It's quite easy. You've simply gotten so used to coins being pretty much worthless that having coins with a little bit of value takes some getting used to. Nik42 09:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

What kind of parking meter accepts $1 bill? Instead of 4 coins, now you only need 1. Using coin saves the manufacturing cost in the long run. It's your tax money! --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

My parking meters here only accept quarters and that's all. I highly doubt my city is going to replace the digital parking meters that they just finished installing last year with ones that now magically take $1 coins. JudgeX 22:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

In 2000, Bernard Unger of the Government Accounting Office reported to Congress that switching from a dollar bill to a dollar coin would save the federal government $522 million a year. (reference: http://www.gao.gov/archive/2000/gg00111r.pdf) Thus we can consider that amount to be the cost to keep the dollar bill around.

It ain't worth it!

If the dollar coin would liberate $522 million of our tax dollars a year, hopefully returned to us or at least spent on more worthy causes like medical research, then I'm all for it!

Some folks holler about wanting the choice of a dollar bill or coin, or about the government forcing us to use one or the other. I ask you... is it worth $522 million a year to keep the dollar bill around? - Deeplogic 19:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I doubt the Federal Reserve will get rid of the one dollar bill regardless of how many coins are minted, despite their theory the bills have a lifespan of 22 months. It would be nice to get rid of the single and maybe revise the two dollar bill with Washington (or leave it alone). Even the U.S. Mint is afraid to get rid of the one cent, because there is still a profit with the smallest denomination. Jjmillerhistorian 14:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

If you're interested in this topic, you might be interested in the report I wrote on what should be done to the U.S. currency. Some of those are direct copy from Wikipedia, I admit. But the comparative study and some other stuff are original. I wish I could put it in my user page so that everyone can review and edit. But unfortunately, it is against Wikipedia:User page. Nevertheless, I welcome any suggestion, from grammatical mistake to overall content. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 12:22, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Spouse

The recent addition reads: "the act as written does not create an exception for First Spouses who are not yet deceased". I find this sentence confusing. The word "exception" itself implies negation, and now we have "not an exception". So what does the act say? Any person, or just the presidents, has to be dead for 2 years before showing on coins? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 15:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I have reworded it. The spouse is honored whenever their presidential spouse is honored regardless of if the first spouse is alive or dead. Cburnett 06:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering about that. Isn't there a law that living people can't be featured on US currency? Has it been changed? Oogabooga 17:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

This lists the 21st first spouse as Alice Paul. This seems to be completely false and may be vandalism, seeing as Alice Paul was born less than two months before the 21st president, Chester Arthur's term ended. Arthur was a widower during presidency, so it seems like this should be either Arthur's Liberty or perhaps his sister Mary McElroy, who was unofficial first lady. omnijohn 16:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Alice Paul is correct. I have added a reference for this to 31 USC 5112 (o)(D)(ii) which reads:

as represented, in the case of President Chester Alan Arthur, by a design incorporating the name and likeness of Alice Paul, a leading strategist in the suffrage movement, who was instrumental in gaining women the right to vote upon the adoption of the 19th amendment and thus the ability to participate in the election of future Presidents, and who was born on January 11, 1885, during the term of President Arthur

Cburnett 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page rename

I'm not sure the page rename from Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005 to Presidential $1 Coin Program was a good idea. The $1 Coin Program was only one of the programs to be initiated by the $1 Coin Act. The other programs are listed lower on the page, but they're now out of place there. Plus, the law is still called the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, regardless of what the program is called, so the intro will have to be fixed even if the page is left where it is currently. Jwolfe 05:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The page is about the "Program," but still has components of the First Spouse Program, the Lincoln Penny, and other mintage changes. I think renaming the article was a bad move, unless someone's going to create articles for all the other sub-programs right now. --Zz414 14:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I say that the question "What year is it an act of??" sounds a little too trivial. Georgia guy 21:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Untitled

the metallic content needs to be added. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.53.23.58 (talk • contribs) 21:57, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the coin is mostly made up of a copper nickel clad mixture (as has been since '65) and a bit of manganese for the color. - Thanks, Hoshie 19:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Can you source exact percentages and put it in the article? Cburnett 20:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It's written in Dollar (United States coin). --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 00:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alice Paul?

The table of presidential spouses shows Alice Paul right behind Mrs. Garfield. While Alice Paul was an admirable and admired woman, President Arthur was a widower, like Presidents Jefferson and Jackson, so I presume this intrusion is an act of vandalism. Does anyone know otherwise? J S Ayer 04:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not vandalism. The Act itself specifically requires a coin for Alice Paul for Arthur's term. See [3] Jwolfe 11:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I have added a reference in the article. Cburnett 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

This bill appears to have been put together like the budget resolutions. A little from here, a little from there, until all the interest groups are satisfied -- then, don't disestablish the dollar bill, so it's all for collectors, anyway. Coemgenus 18:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Godless dollar

(This issue appears RESOLVED, as Godless dollar redirects to this article.)

[edit] Support

• Support The so called Godless dollar is an error of the Presidential $1. Such a small niche doesn't deserve its own article. Imagine if every error coin/note have its own article. The name "godless dollar", which is made up by some reporters in a day, is probably not suitable for an article title anyway. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 16:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
• Support -- yes, merge it. The article will never be bigger than a stub on its own, and would be better placed within this article. Coemgenus 16:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
• Support Yes, please merge. 66.114.93.6 03:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Against

[edit] Spouse images

I see the images have been deleted from commons (I believe because they were unsourced). If anyone has the time and motivation the images can be downloaded at http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/index.cfm?action=photo#2007Spouse. Cburnett 22:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Image links fixed. I presume the link will still be valid for future coin images. Cburnett 16:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chester Arthur

Alice Paul is on the coin not because "Arthur also refused to let anyone fill the roll [sic] that would have been his wife's." Mary McElroy, his sister, in fact, did fill that role. I'm not entirely sure why they decided to place a prominent woman there and not for other bachelor/widowed Presidents, but it's not for the reason Cburnett said Nik42 04:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

From Chester A. Arthur#Pre-political career:

He asked his sister Mary, the wife of writer John E. McElroy, to assume certain social duties and help care for his daughter.

So which is it? Did Mary fill that role or not? I find this [4]:

Although Mary McElroy served as her brother's First Lady, she was not accorded any formal recognition. Out of respect for his wife, Chester Arthur refused to grant his sister the protocol rank associated with the position of First Lady. Such a deficiency did not hurt Mary's reputation, and she was considered a popular and competent hostess. Her duties, however, were limited, as the Arthur administration minimized its social calendar in deference to the late President Garfield.

Sounds like to me that the Chester A. Arthur article is correct. Since Mary was not granted the official title then I think it's sufficient to say it is why Mary is not on the coin. Perhaps my wording can be made more correct but the point is there. Cburnett 05:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Whether Mary McElroy counts as a First Lady has nothing to do with why Alice Paul is on the coin. Other non-spousal First Ladies are not on the coins, even when there's no question as to whether they were First Ladies. I suspect that's part of the reason Presidential Spouse was chosen instead of First Lady for the name of the series. Nik42 05:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Both the text I wrote and the text you reverted to contained ancillary and irrelevant information. Because of that, it is not worth further discussion. (There is no reason to even mention first lady as it is irrelevant. Only the lack of a spouse is relevant.) I opted to rewrite the footnote and tried to be more precise and less irrelevant. Please review. Cburnett 06:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)