Talk:Pre-eclampsia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What did you mean when you said "cloned" in your edit summary, User:Karada? Is this a clone of an already-existing article? If that is the case, you should use a redirect instead. -- Timwi 20:16, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It's taking a fragment of an existing article (in this case obstetrics), and beginning to spin it out into a bigger article. Like taking a cutting from a plant. -- Karada 20:17, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Some guy think this is a genetic desease. Quote "t is down to a gene passed down to a daughter by their mother" [1]

Possibly worth mentioning. If Gus Dekker is behind it, it must be good. There is no comment about the 33%, nor the way in which STOX1 influences the disease. The Pubmed abstract is not available yet. JFW | T@lk 21:46, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Why was this reverted? 2 Fellatio 3 Induced premature delivery 4 sFlt1:PIGF 5 This article contains copyrighted material

[edit] Why was this reverted?

I'm not sure about this reversion. It seems to be reasonably well supported. --Arcadian 17:54, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Not everything with a PubMed abstract should need to be in Wikipedia. This is a hypothesis (fellatio decreases risk of toxemia) which is in the process of being investigated, and it has enormous urban legend potential. That itself is not enough. Does anyone suggest fellatio on prescription? Has it found its way into the common media? These are all factors of notability. There are many theories on the exact mechanism and etiology of (pre)eclampsia and HELLP - all give clues but none is conclusive. I strongly disapprove of citing the fellatio example just because it sounds weird. JFW | T@lk 17:29, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fellatio

The mention of prophylactic fellatio was thankfully removed from the article, as it is off-balance and only feeds urban legends. I'm copying the reference here for archiving purposes:

• Koelman CA, Coumans AB, Nijman HW, Doxiadis II, Dekker GA, Claas FH. Correlation between oral sex and a low incidence of preeclampsia: a role for soluble HLA in seminal fluid? J Reprod Immunol 2000;46:155-66. PMID 10706945.

When all the other pathogenetic mechanisms have been covered this may be reintroduced. JFW | T@lk 09:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Preeclampsia: A Couple’s Disease with Maternal and Fetal Manifestations Pp.699-710 G.A. Dekker and P.Y. Robillard http://www.bentham.org/cpd/contabs/cpd11-6.htm

While I, and most experts I know do not buy into the Dekker theory, Dekker is a highly regarded preeclampsia researcher and his theories have been published in peer-reviewed journals. It is, in some camps, considered a valid theory not an urban legend. Anne Garrett, founder, Preeclampsia Foundation67.170.56.192 21:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Induced premature delivery

User:TalkAbout queried my prior revertion of added material, and while I thought the phrasing was unencyclopaedic and duplicated information already given in the article, there is indeed important consequences to the fetus for having an induced delivery occuring pre-term. User:TalkAbout seeks consideration of alternative information/phrasing that might be added... so first copied from my talk page: David Ruben ^Talk 02:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear Dave,

I did not state that the steroids were for the treatment of pre-eclampsia but for the benefit of the fetus. The “fetus” is in utero in the mother, treating post delivery does not provide for the possibility of a positive patient outcome (patient being the fetus which at 24 to 34 weeks is viable). If you ask any mother, they would surely like to have the option to know about this treatment.

Also, a series is indicative of more than one; if you like you can edit and state that they are given every 12 hours along with any additional information. It’s your call there. My point is from a patient’s right to know, a patients access to information. Post pre-mature delivery this information is of no of value.

I also note that the article does not state that this condition can be fatal to both mother and fetus. “It is the most common dangerous complication of pregnancy--impacting both the mother and the fetus.”

Davidruben wrote: (rv as link clearly describes, steroids are used in premature delivery "usually 24 to 34 weeks", not specifically needed for pre-eclampsia. Also link discusses giving just one vs several injections)

Removed edit: Steroid injections (Betametasane and Decadron)[2] may have to be requested by the mother or family as doctors may feel that delivery will come quickly and the steroid injections are given in a ‘’’ series over a 24 hour period.’’’ These injections will help the development and maturity of the fetal lungs.

So Doc, can you develop an edit that will meet your standards, that you can approve of or should I get a second opinion in my family of Docs? PEACE 01:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC) User:TalkAbout

• Limited space in edit summary - what I was trying to indicate was that the steroids are given for imminent premature delivery, not specifically because of the underlying reason for the premature delivery. Similarly the article makes no mention of the requirement for SCBU monitoring of babies born prematurely or increased risks intracerebral haemorrhages - its not directly relevant to the article on pre-eclampsia (but vital in premature birth article).
• Wikipedia is neither a how-to-guide nor gives medical advice - so the bit about "have to be requested by the mother or family as doctors may feel that" just seemed awkward English, unless that is doctors specifically forget about steroids in cases of pre-eclampsia, in which case one would need to WP:Cite to WP:Verify (the Obstetric Unit I worked at had, like all such UK units, very clear guidelines for the management of cases of pre-eclampsia which included details of when steroids should be given to cover the possibility of urgent delivery being required – so unless there is evidence that such protocols are not followed, it was always my experience that the use of steroids was always initiated by the doctors or midwives on the unit following the protocols). Likewise the article does not give advice that mother/family similarly need supervise/instruct/request that their doctors monitor state of the foetus, blood pressure, urine output, urine protein leakage, urate/D-Dimer/Coagulation levels or check for hyper-reflexia.
• Finally the text removed was duplication of information already in the article - "In some cases women with preeclampsia or eclampsia can be stabilized temporarily with magnesium sulfate intravenously to forestall seizures while steroid injections are administered to promote fetal lung maturation"
• Do you think the article needs instead more a mention that when induced delivery becomes required, then in cases under 37 weeks this is done despite (?irrespective of) the additional risks to the foetus/neonate for being delivered prematurely ? i.e.something added after the existing mention of use of steroids, along lines of:

  "... to promote fetal lung maturation. When induced delivery needs to take place before 37 weeks gestation, it is accepted that there are additional risks to the baby from premature births that will require additional monitoring and care." ? David Ruben ^Talk 02:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear Dave,

This:"... to promote fetal lung maturation. When induced delivery needs to take place before 37 weeks gestation, it is accepted that there are additional risks to the baby from premature births that will require additional monitoring and care." The addition is a good. Regards TalkAbout 19:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sFlt1:PIGF

Watch. JFW | T@lk 07:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article contains copyrighted material

Much of this article has been lifted from "Clinical Obstetrics and Gynaecology" by James Drife and Brian Magowan. I don't have time to remove it at the moment but I thought I should let moderators know. Of particular note, the section mentioning the increase in diameter of maternal arteries five-fold, lifted from page 368 onwards.

Please tell us which sections are copyright violations. I will remove the stolen content and replace it with something original. JFW | T@lk 13:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Most of the article is copied wholesale. I have put the copied sections in chevrons below:

Now that this issue has been resolved, I have removed the offending content from this talk page too!PsychoticSock 18:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Obviously this takes out most of the article! Good luck replacing it...

Hi there, before you make any alterations to this article, I must ask you to follow correct copyright violation process at WP:COPYVIO. If you believe this article in indeed a copyright violation, please return here with a link to the source text in order that I or another user make confirm whether or not your claim is valid. In the meantime you should refrain from making any alterations to this article. If you remove any part of this article without following correct WP:COPYVIO procedure, your edits may be reverted (as page blanking vandalism) and potentially your access to this article or to Wikipedia could be blocked. It is, as you may gather, rather unusual for an unregistered user to come forward claiming copyright violations without providing any evidence to backup their claims. I apologise in advance if this seems unduly harsh, this is not my intention. I don't want to see you or Wikipedia suffer over this article. Kind Regards - Heligoland | Talk | Contribs 21:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

As I stated earlier, the material has been directly lifted from a book (which I own) "Clinical Obstetrics and Gynaecology" by James Drife and Brian Magowan. ISBN:0-7020-1775-2 Chapter 39, Pregnancy-induced hypertension, Pages 367-370. I came to Wikipedia to cement my knowledge and what I found on this page seemed all too familiar...

I just realised that I did register after all, thus I shall sign for the above. PsychoticSock 19:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)