Talk:Praying mantis

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Don't believe the mantis was introduced from England to the USA. Too cold a climate here in England plus no sign of the European mantis here.

No they don't. They're so named because of the prayer-like stance they adopt before they strike. I think. :-) -- Evercat 20:10 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

Opps, they seem to be spelled both ways :-) Either way the insects don't care :-)

Okay, what are we doing? :-)

Too much at one time, I think. <G> I'll lay low until everyone's done, though it seems ok now. There are lots of good pictures of mantids, I hope we can find some. -- Someone else 20:27 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

Oops. There's a slight bug in Wikipedia when clicking edit on a redirect page can sometimes edit the other page. Things seem OK now. -- Evercat 20:26 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

I think this would be an excellent case for disambiguating by having the main article (material currently at praying mantis (insect) here at praying mantis about the insect, with a stub at the top or bottom for the praying mantis kung fu, reduced to a link when there's a separate article for that. -- John Owens 21:44 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

I agree. The insect is clearly the central thing from which anything else derives its name. -- Evercat 20:57 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

On the nl: and de: wikipedia it is the order of the Mantodea. GerardM 12:42, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

How about moving this text to Mantis, and then having Praying mantis free for the only European species, Mantis religiosa? That's currently under European mantis, which is a term only used of it in America, not in Europe. Here, it is simply the "praying mantis". There are (in my understanding) other mantids, but only one species of praying mantis. Stemonitis 12:59, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] There look to be a bunch of species of "praying mantids"

The section in the reference points to this source that seems to be pretty good. I'd argue that typing in praying mantis in search shouldn't taking you through 2 levels of redirection to get to an article that only discusses the south carolina variety. Wikibofh 23:00, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ok...

The taxobox was whacked. I've put in a stub. I created an initial header and a few categories. This probably also needs some stub/cleanup tags applied. I'll try to work on this article slowly over the next week. Wikibofh 23:36, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wow...article looks much better...wonder if something got saved between my sessions, as the last comment is a "revert". Thanks for the edit. It looks MUCH better than when I first ran across it.

[edit] Merge...

I think this should actually be merged with Mantidae, and this made disambig. The reason it's in the current state that it is, is that when I stumbled on it, Mantodea and Mantidae either didn't exist or redirected to here. I tried to clean up those, and just pasted in the front paragraph from this. If people who actually understand the taxonomy can fix it that would be great. Wikibofh 04:13, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well you have done the right thing by raising the question here. And you gave it plenty of time - its a shame you didn't get any replies (I've just come here following a picture currently nominated on WP:FPC).

Unfortunately I think the move/merge is a mistake. In general, taxonomic species and families are placed at their common English names rather than their scientific latin names. The latin name then has a redirect to the common name, which is what previously was the case at Mantidae. I think there are guidelines on this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life.

And certainly, the most common use of 'praying mantis' is for the insects by a country mile, so its previous position as a type 1 disambig was correct. There are additional problems in the method of moving which is effectively looking like a cut-n-paste move that looses the edit history. I'll try and attract the attention of some taxobox folk to help out. -- Solipsist 30 June 2005 20:56 (UTC)

I raised it here, and even on the Insect talk page. I understand the danger of the cut-n-paste move, so tried to label it in my edits to make it obvious. The problem is when we redirect the taxonomy name to the common name, when we need to edit something below that common name, it gets ugly. I just don't see how to fix both of those. The example here is that if Mantodea refers to Praying mantis and I want articles on one of the 8 families of Mantodea, the organization gets crazy. I honestly thought about direct moves, but that was ugly as there was information on both sides. With this, I figured if it was disapproved of, at least a revert was easy. The other one I've been working on that is just as bad, if not worse, is Cockroach for the same reason. Wikibofh 30 June 2005 21:32 (UTC)

What about this? Move the taxobox back, and the opening paragraph (or in this case simply revert) and then delete all the rest and put a for more information see Mantidae? This gets rid of the disambiguation, allows for the common usage, but allows for the species/families stuff to still be logical. The more detailed information would just be in the taxo page. Wikibofh 30 June 2005 21:50 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have the answer. It looks like there are problems all round. I don't know these insects well enough to sort it out, except to say that praying mantis should be a page on one of the insects or the family, rather than a disambig. -- Solipsist 30 June 2005 21:59 (UTC)
The good news is that Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tree_of_Life#Praying_mantis seems to have drawn some attention. -- Solipsist 30 June 2005 22:30 (UTC)

Thanks. I followed on over and added (and started watching) that as well. Sometimes it's just knowing where to look. Wikibofh 30 June 2005 22:44 (UTC)

I have changed the article back to a pseudo-stub, and then added a reference to Mantodea for full information. I think this is better. Comments? Wikibofh 1 July 2005 16:44 (UTC)

I feel that the page doesn't have enough information and that it would be better merged with the Mantodea page. While it IS simply one species, it is the species that most people will be searching for. The article even references Mantodea as having more information- why have a separate, extremely basic page? Schnauf 20:41, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Problem is it isn't one species. It's the common name that is used to refer to many different species. I recognize it's kind of ugly, but don't see the alternative (which you can see I did one :) is any better. Also see my comments at Talk:Mantodea. Wikibofh_(talk) 22:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image

What do you people think of this image:

Zoark-Mantis.jpg

Personally, I think it's really rather better than the one up there now.PiccoloNamek July 8, 2005 23:20 (UTC)

AHHHH! It's too big. :) Just kidding, we can size those. I know the current taxo image was up for featured image, so I'd prefer not to move it. I do however think this one is a great image. I'd suggest we move this into either Mantodea or Mantidae. I think variety between the pages is a great idea. Wikibofh 9 July 2005 05:24 (UTC)

Ok then. Any idea what kind of mantis it is? I can tell you that it was very green all over and nearly 7 inches long.PiccoloNamek July 9, 2005 05:44 (UTC)
- Its a nice picture, I'm sure we have space for both of them. I would also suggest cropping the top of this picture, to remove most of the dark block in the background. That should also put the face on the top 1/3 line which is usually good for composition too. -- Solipsist 9 July 2005 08:04 (UTC)
- Where was the picture taken? If in the US there are 3 common species, after that I have no idea. Despite my contributions, I'm no mantid expert. :) Wikibofh 9 July 2005 14:30 (UTC)
North Georgia.PiccoloNamek 20:38, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is this actually true?

I heard that praying mantis always kills the male partner after mating. I haven't confirmed it. kindling put me in the know.

It is not. It is largely true for some species, but not exclusively true even for them...at least according to the books I've read that cover it. Wikibofh 17:07, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

As Wikibofh said, that's not really true. More of an urban legend than anything. It does happen, very occasionally, but male mantises don't really have to fear their decapitation and consumption after mating. --Xanzzibar 20:22, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Its sorta like the Black Widow Urban Legend that they always eat their mates after, well mating. AllStarZ 18:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mantis religiosa

This page says that Mantis religiosa is the name for european mantis but the french wikipedia artical says it is for praying mantis and so does http://www.all-creatures.org/pica/glf-mantis.html what do people think? - Fabhcún 21:12, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

My understanding: Praying mantis is a common name, and actually normally refers to anything of the family Mantodea. When it is used to refer to a singe species (ie Praying Mantis) it is believed to normally refer to mantis religiousa. Does that make sense? This is the problem with common names and scientific names. Wikibofh 23:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
- I am currently starting the Irish Language page on Praying mantis, Do you think I should use Mantis religiosa on that page. I used www.acmhainn.ie to get a translation for praying mantis and it gave Maintis chrábhaidh which was listed next to Mantis religosa. - Fabhcún 10:13, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
  - I would go with a scheme similar to here. The goal is really two fold: 1) provide a description of a common name, 2) provide accurate descriptions of species. Having a "Praying mantis" page satisfies 1, and then you mention Mantodea and mantis religosa which would be internally consistent. I view them as a sort of parallel amalgam. Does that make sense? Another good person to ask is Gdr. He seems to do a lot with this stuff. Wikibofh 15:57, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Information states that mantids were introduced to the usa from England and China- I'm sure the European Mantid has never been native to England.

I think I got that out of the insect book in sources. They may not have been native to England, but they still could have come to the US from there. Wikibofh_(talk) 17:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] external link

I think that the first external link should be removed. A dumpalink video that someone made of putting a mouse and a praying mantis in a jar having them fight to the death does not belong here. Its like putting a video of dogfighting or cockfighting up. Jackkoho 05:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for calling attention to it. Pollinator 05:54, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] praying mantis color adoptation

can the praying mantis change colors to adopt their surroundings? or do they just have one color.

the praying mantis is a very wonderus insect.but to me intresting.girl's ushally don't like sceince but not me.i actchally have three pet praying mantis's.it's hard takeing care of three praying mantis's becouse one trie's to escape and i tell my daddy it's alot of work but the other two are good.there is almost i,800 specie's of praying mantis's,some blend in with flower's and leaf's.i'm only a 7 year old girl going on to 8.i also learned in school that their first meal is their brothers and sister's.one day i went to the houston museum of natural sceince,and it was a blast!my dad was sieming to have fun to.i got a coloring book there it's so cool!

[edit] protected species??

I'd been told that it's illegal to kill them in some U.S. states because they're protected. Is this truth or urban legend? If not, could the source of the legend be the fact that it is the "official insect" of a couple of states?

No it isn't illegal since there is no law. http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2154.html and http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/mantis2.htm -- RobertM 06:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge... again

Sorry, I suggested the merge before reading all the talkpages, but I still think it is worth discussing again. The current situation is a bit of a mess with several articles redirecting back to themselves. A lot of information is duplicated on several articles, including Mantodea, Tenodera and mantis, and looking over the many article names, the distinction between "Praying mantis" and "Mantidae" is more confusing than enlightening. "Praying mantis" seems to be the common general term for all Mantidae, but several of the articles use "Praying mantis" as though it were a specific name for the European mantis or the Carolina mantis. (By the way, I made what may have been a hasty move from European mantis, Carolina mantis and Chinese mantis to European Mantis, Carolina Mantis and Chinese Mantis. If there is consensus I will move them back and deal with the redirects). All the Mantidae article really says is that it is the scientific name for praying mantes. Both have lists of subspecies, both somewhat confusing. I think merging would in this case enable a discussion of both the scientific classification and a general description of what is common to the many insect subtypes popularly referred to as "Praying mantis". --woggly 10:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I think they all should be merged since it would be easier to find information on one page then a number of pages. -- RobertM 10:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

No, they shouldn't. The question of mantidae and praying mantis, maybe. But all of the others no. They are the common names for specific species of mantids. The individual species should have individual pages. Also, I'm not sure why you (Woogly) capitalized Mantis? I'm pretty sure that convention is that it be lowercase (as in Praying mantis, not Praying Mantis). Wikibofh_(talk) 13:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- I was not suggesting to "merge them all". To clarify: my original suggestion was to merge Mantidae with Praying mantis only. The other articles were only mentioned so as to show just how many related articles we have with very similar content, but I agree that most of these are useful distinctions. Nevertheless I am now also suggesting that you take a look at Mantinae, which doesn't seem to be adding any new information that's not on Praying mantis. Also I think Tenodera could be merged with Chinese mantis or vice versa. As for the capitalization thing, the list on Praying mantis threw me off. I'll undo the moves.--woggly 07:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  - My point is simply because Mantinae, Mantidae and this are similar, doesn't mean they should be merged. In particular, what would you do about the redlinked subfamilies? The redlinks are useful, in that they encourage the creation of articles, however by merging these in, you have to lose some, if not all, of that. If there is a sub-family that consists of only one species, then sure, by all means merge them. But for Mantidae there are probably 20 sub-families. For Mantinae there are (red) links to over 50 species we could identify. For Tenodera there are an additional 3 redlinks. I think losing those "branches" of a tree is bad. I am not sure, however, that I'm in the majority. Wikibofh_(talk) 14:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm withdrawing my suggestion to merge. But I still think there is a problem with the categories "Mantids" and "Mantodea" that needs to be addressed somehow, not sure how best. --woggly 09:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Whatever

--4.225.38.189 22:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)I have to do a project on this page about praying mantids. I learned a lot such as they are predatory. The praying Mantis can eat a Humming bird!!! I saw the artical on Bird Watchers digst I thought was interesting because now people know they are predatory, but I think sometimes the protect their eggs from predators.

Well thats all I have to say--4.225.38.189 22:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Jobear 6:50 p.m 10/19/06

[edit] The Praying Mantis

Mym mom told me that I couldn't kill a Praying Mantis in Ohio because it is illegal to kill them. So the next day I asked my science teacher. He said that in some states yes but in Ohio he does not know. I looked it up online and found out that it IS ILLEGAL to kill this protected species in Ohio.

Jobear

Why would you kill such a beautiful creature?

Hexugoth

[edit] Expand or Reorganize

The summary is good, but the main body is inadequate. 24630 05:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can all mantises fly?

I recall reading somewhere that not all mantis species can fly, that some completely lack wings. Is this true? SpectrumDT 15:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. House of Scandal 20:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek word

I'm changing "mantes," which seems to be a typo, to "mantis," which is the Greek word for "prophet." Andrew Ollett 19:29, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible vandalism

I saw this : "The Offspring of the praying mantis are often born inside walnuts to protect them from being "savaged" (Raped) by the older males. the alpha male will often dose his scrotum in camel spit then setting it alight before this savaging process. the young then have to run for miles under cover of night just for a decent semen sandwich." on the page. Feeling this might be vandalism of some type - thought maybe I should bring it to attention. Mekei 08:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image found on Commons

Noted as Statilia maculata, not found in list in article

To your attention, nice article! - User:Leonard G. 05:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mantids as pets

information on mantis relationship to humans? how they react et cetera... --AlexOv Shaolin 03:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citing Sources

To anyone who might be watching this article and working on it: There are numerous source citations in-text (ie.- "[...](Patterson)", "According to _____", "Patterson describes [...]" etc.) which should probably be removed and replaced with citation by numbered footnotes. If anything just for the sake of uniformity among all wikipedia articles. --S.Reemas, Jan. 16, 2007

[edit] Impending reorganization

I am preparing to finally go ahead with merging the text from this article into the text of the Mantodea article, since the two are treated as synonymous, and much of the information redundant. "Praying mantis" will become either a simple redirect to Mantodea, or a disambiguation page that lets readers choose whether to go to Mantodea, or directly to Mantis religiosa. I'm inclined to go the former route, since it seems to be a more common usage to consider ANY member of the order to be a "praying mantis". If this is of concern to you, the place for expressing opinions is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arthropods#Mantid/Mantis/Mantidae/Mantodea/Praying Mantis. 138.23.134.119 18:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

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