Talk:Power metal

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Contents

[edit] Power metal & Progressive metal

Power metal and progressive metal cross over so much how do we seperate them? I heard progressive metal has more keyboard then power metal but whats other differences?

- Very easily. most power metal bands are not prgressive metal bands, and vice vrsa. while there are similarities, they nevertheless remain two distinctive genres - 15:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

-Very Much Agreed - Progressive Metal is generally softer and more techinically sound than power 16:05, 4-7-2007

[edit] Slowly diminishing popularity?

I may be far from where Power Metal scenes are (I live in Louisiana, which the only popular Metal is all the "Core" bands, Death Metal, and Black Metal. Only Power Metal bands you can buy albums in stores here are DragonForce and Nightwish) but I don't see where it's "slowly diminishing" in popularity. If you can give details to support how it is falling in popularity because I see no stopping so far. I mgiht be right or wrong, I don't know. Do provide WHERE you got this information! Mandilore

Sabaton is pretty new, and they have topped the hard rock charts in sweden, above saxon, manowar and type o negative;

That's definitly good news (especially being a huge Sabaton fan). Until more information has been provided on this because an anti-power metal person could have post that to get people to stop listening to the genre, I have deleted that part. I mean, I search high and low for that proof but nothing was adding up. I heard there was a big decline in rap, yet it still as popular now as it was before here and I hate rap!!! Stay Metal!!!

-Mandilore

[edit] Thrash influence?

I think some mention should be made of the possible (probable?) influence that thrash had on the origins of power metal. Indeed, a lot of thrash's speedier rhythms and stacatto riffs are very consistent with those found in power metal.

  • I see it as power that is very speedy and thrash-like is speed/power metal(crossover)
  • I don't think so, at least not for the European genre. Power metal originates with early Rainbow, which released their first album in 1975. Thrash metal comes from the late '70s or the '80s. In the origin of power metal definately not. In more modern power metal, quite likely, but classic metal groups that delved into speed metal (Judas Priest and Iron Maiden) probably brought those thrash-like elements before actual thrash started bringing in their influence. --72.138.133.124 03:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say power metal borrowed from speed metal, not from thrash. Though it is possible that later european power bands took thrash influence, after the decline of speed metal.

[edit] "cheese metal"?

I've heard the label "cheese metal" used recently, and was told it referred to power metal. Is this right? If so, should it be mentioned in the article as an alternate descriptor? —αγδεε(τ) 23:57, 2004 Dec 3 (UTC)

  • Power metal is generally the cheesiest of the metal genres, yes. It might merit a sentence in the article, but no more. -leigh (φθόγγος) 05:34, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

Power metal is not neccessarily cheese metal, listen to bands like sonata arctica and hammerfall, they are more sound than anything.

  • Cheese metal sounds more like a derogatory term than an actually attempt at classification. Sort of like, I don't know, Zao "crapcore".--72.138.133.124 03:17, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree. Cheese metal isn't a real genre. -Achates 14:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I think it is just a derogatory term for any music that metal purists deem not "heavy" enough or whatever - false metal? --merk 06:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Anyone who says that power metal is cheesy is kind of dumb. Power metal is one of the most popular heavy metal genres. Non operatic power metal draws a lot of inspiration from Rob Halford's singing style (the high male vocals are what are considered the most cheesy aspect, I would think) but no-one calls that cheesy.

Cheese are all black metal bands.

Black Metal bands arn't cheese, theyr much better than power metal, i like power metal, but i hate it when people just comment something unnesisary an a page. BLACK METAL RULES (this is my opinion)

Cheese Metal is definately a pejorative term used in relation to alot of metal groups. Generally bands that tend towards fantasy subject matter (Rhapsody, Manowar, etc) get this lable, though it is rarely ever used outside of flame-style criticism and really doesn't have a place in serious discussion about the genre. -UnitG3D

Cheese Metal is a perojative and humoristic term to laugh at bands that somewhat take their style too much seriously. I saw often been either used on power metal or black metal. Manowar and Rhapsody are extremely cheesy. Matt714 20:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Calvaria

I just created the page Calvaria as a redirect to Tambalacoque (it is a minor alternative name for this tree) - and looking at 'what links here' brings it up as a band as well, a more significant use of the name. Anyone who knows about the band, feel free to convert Calvaria to a page about the band, the tree link isn't important - MPF 00:55, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Europe's influence on power metal is questionable...very speculative to say that their initial music influence was immense.


[edit] NPOV

I have removed the line "and just more ridiculousness in general" on the basis that it is not NPOW.


[edit] 195.85.229.3 dispute

User:195.85.229.3's addition of the absurd paragraph "This style is not very popular in the world, because of the complexity and inner weight of its musical delivery, which makes an untrained, homosexual listener feel uneasy and harassed by the sheer power of Power Metal music" obscured attention from the rest of his/her edit. This editor seems to be asserting the definition of "power metal" expressed in Ladd Everitt's essay "How The Pumpkin Stole Power Metal" on [1] (scroll down; unfortunately they prohibit direct linking). I've reverted his changes, but they have some merit; I'm currently working on a compromise article. -leigh (φθόγγος) 04:55, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

-This guy needs to get his facts straight. Rob Halford is gay, and he's been a major inspiration/contributor to this genre. Plus, Power Metal is for everyone...and the phrase "power of Power Metal" is redundant. 67.62.112.215 19:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

-This guy above me needs to get a sense of humor. --70.184.124.111 00:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's then speed etc.?

Sorry to say, but from the bands mentioned at least half is not power metal. True's it's epic, but not fast. Only the thing there're playing with filharmonic orchestra doesn't mean, it's Power metal.

Genre is always a tricky subject. You will likely never get everyone to reach a consensus about what bands belong or not to a certain genre, so you are better off just leaving things as they are. Over at Death metal, a long edit war ensued until List of Death Metal bands was created; there people can dump the name of whatever band they think are death metal. All that is left on the main article are the bands who truly DEVELOPED the genre, bands whose influences are impossible to deny. But since there isn't even a consensus about what power metal truly is, I find it hard to use this option here. --Sn0wflake 30 June 2005 19:56 (UTC)

I agree because Power Metal is very broad. Unlike in Death Metal and Black Metal and other Metal genres, it's very easy ubt very hard to name a band "Power Metal". Power Metal bands can have anything from Standard, C, and E tuning. The vocals also vary, some even have death grunts and such because mainly the backgronud music meets majority of Power Metal elements(like Children of Bodom). Nocturnal Rite's sounds like a Metalcore band by gutiar band and half of the style but the other half is playing in a Power Metal fashion, clean vocals, epic feel, keyboards, and other essences. Majority what makes Power Metal is the guitars, vocals, and drums style(and the inclusion of keyboard and keyboard solos) but even making the drums Hardcore and the gutiars Heavy Metal with modern distortion makes that band Power Metal. SO I agree with you on that Power Metal is a tricky genre to name.

[edit] Rainbow

I'm removing Rainbow from the list of "examples of power metal bands" on the grounds that Rainbow have very little in common with bands normally associated with the genre (I.e. Gamma Ray, Helloween, Hammerfall, Rhapsody). To put it another way; if Rainbow should be on this list, then so should Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. And no one in their right mind would argue that Deep Purple is a power metal band. Rainbow belongs in the classic rock genre, or to a certain extent; classic metal, or even glam metal for the later period of Rainbow's existence. Lappado 13:50, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Well I could not agree more and I just removed it again, for the second time. Neofelis Nebulosa (??? ???????????) 9 March 2006 (my sig doesn't want to work)

True, they don't have much influence on the musical part of power metal, but their lyrics were very fantasy-based, which is present in a lot of power metal. Maybe a sentence or two should be there about bands that influenced the lyrical style in power metal/

Led Zeppelin had a few songs about mythology and the Lord of the Rings... yet they are not power metal at all. Matt714 20:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Rainbow musically has a lot to do with power metal, keyboards, epic vocals, neo classical styled solos....they were basically one of the first power metal bands, power metal isn't just bands like Helloween --E tac 21:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influences List

I recommend adding a small section of 'Influences / Instigators' [or something along those lines] at the bottom of the list of power metal bands

You could add Maiden, Priest and anyone else who has had a big influence on the genre. I'm not a big fan of power metal but I do think it would be a good addition to this article :)

~Mal

[edit] List Of Power Metal Bands

I think it might be a good idea to make a new List of Power Metal bands page for a list of ALL power metal bands, and have the list on this page changed to just a list of key artists, like on the Death metal page. Also, I agree with the idea for the influences list. (maybe I just like lists...) --Eel 02:34, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd agree, and am looking at doing something similar with the Iron Maiden page ("Band That Have Covered Iron Maiden") and also some of the larger discographies. IainP (talk) 13:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Influence

Rainbow may have something, that was taken from them to Power Metal, (I think mostly, it split into DIO and Blackmore's Night, with booth have epic themes), but they are definetly not Power Metal themself... BTW Deep Purple count as inventors of Speed Metal, which is the style, from which Power progressed... So, my opinion is, that Power got direct influence from Rainbow, Deep Purple, as was said and is stated in the article - Judas Priest and Iron Maiden... DIO is primary more an influence, or a-very-predecceccor of this style... I think someone should add the "influence list" and transfer before-Helloween bands there... I could try, but now am too busy.

I think Manowar probably deserves a mention on the powermetal page. -Achates 14:25, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove?

I think the following could be removed after the second comma. The stuff about Hansi isn't really needed in an encyclopedia article and the part about Kai singing again contradicts the point of the importance of singing in power metal. I agree that the singer *is* important in power metal (the most famous bands are fronted by singers with a distinct style e.g. Helloween, Blind Guardian, Savatage, Nevermore (if one considers their later work power metal). However singers who don't double as instrumentalists aren't a distinct feature of power metal alone. I think singers/instrumnetalists are usually found in death/black groups unless my mind does not really serve right now ;) Not to mention the drummer singer King Fowley

"Because of the primary importance of vocals in power metal, vocalists generally do not double as guitarists as in other styles of metal, which is why Hansi K?rsch stepped down as bassist for Blind Guardian after their album "The Forgotten Tales"; Hansi said that he wanted to focus on enhancing his vocals both in and out of the studio. This is also the case as to why Kai Hansen recruited Michael Kiske for Helloween after Kai himself sang on the first two Helloween albums. When Kai formed Gamma Ray with Ralf Scheepers, his singing took a back seat as Ralf fronted the band. Although, after Ralf quit the band, Kai returned to singing and currently is both the vocalist and the lead guitarist of the band."

[edit] Phoenix Reign should not be in the NYC Power Metal list

I find it to be ridiculous that the band "Phoenix Reign" is on the same list with popular bands such as Manowar and Virgin steel in the sub article "American Power Metal". As a fan of the NYC local metal scene, I can speak for the most part that Phoenix Reign does not belong on that list. They are not popular, nor signed - they are just a garage band. Obviously someone from the band put "Phoenix Reign" in there and I see them in that list as a cheap way to get their name out, and I am removing it. Also, the band "Twilight Odyssy" is also in that list, and they are not popular but definitly more known then Phoenix Reign. However, since the editor didn't even bother to attempt to make it a link and simple tossed the name in there - I'm sure someone from that band tossed that in too.

[edit] Weasel

  • "power metal" generally refers to the European style
  • Some consider modern American bands like (...) but others claim that the movement has ended
  • Their albums Keeper of the Seven Keys, Part 1 (1987) and Keeper of the Seven Keys, Part 2 (1988) are generally regarded as a milestone of this genre.
  • Fast and demanding guitar solos, however, are almost guaranteed.
  • Power metal drummers generally play with two bass drums for added speed, often playing a constant stream of sixteenth notes with snare drum accents on the beat. Some bands defy this formula, but it is surprisingly universal.

I do unfortunately not have the knowledge to fix the problems myself Bryan 21:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The second certainly isn't; it just states that there are two opinions, not giving any extra authority to either. 87.194.7.55 00:32, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

But you still cannot say it his way. Wikipedia requires to cite your sources, and not just saying some without further explanation. Bryan 09:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] dragonforce

why dragon force is mentioned in this page i have no idea. sure they are popular at the moment, but they are not a fore runner / leader in this genre.

That's why I believe they're mentioned; they're popular at the moment, so it's a good chance people may have heard of them, to provide an example for those who read the page. --Dayn 05:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heavy Metal?

Really, the statement that power metal is a sub-genre of heavy metal is an opinion. Wouldn't it all come from "metal" genre instead, since it's the root word of all these heavy, death, power, symphony metal bands.

"Out of heavy metal various subgenres later evolved, many of which are referred to simply as "metal". As a result, "heavy metal" now has two distinct meanings: either the genre and all of its subgenres, or the original heavy metal bands of the 1970s style sometimes dubbed "traditional metal", as exemplified by Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath."
From the heavy metal music page. I personally just use the term "metal", but almost everyone I've met who hasn't listed to much of it at all refer to it as "heavy metal", so I believe it's interchangeable; which is what is stated on the heavy metal music page. --Dayn 05:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
pure Epic Metal is very different from power metal, please divide the pages —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.118.237.91 (talk) 16:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Angra? European?

Angra is included in the erupean power metal part... But Angra is a band from Brazil!!!

but european power metal is most popular in Europe, Japan, and some countries of South America
SO?
so perhaps european is a part of name of the genre, not a place where they must come from. like with the austrian school of economy.

this is correct. It's a style, not a geographic designation. Cellador certainly sounds more like DragonForce than they sound like Kamelot, and they certainly play Euro-style128.193.238.6 02:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ProgPower

I'm not really sure ProgPower should be listed. Well it is true that Power Metal and Prog Metal bands manily play there. There have been a few non Prog and Power Metal bands to play there. Two of them are Epica and After Forever.

[edit] Simple minor empirical error?

Barlow may be naturally capable of hitting notes in the baritone scale (never heard him sing bass), but he definitely sings in the tenor range at least. If the author of that section is a little hazy on the difference between the various ranges, I'm sure a google search would serve them well. It would be wasted text in here!

Simply, I posit that Barlow works in a variety of ranges through accessing head voice for the higher material and occasionally 'vocal fry' to hit both the low notes (see Dante's Inferno) and the really really high wails (Blessed Are You, at the end of the AIA version). It's not that big a deal and I frankly don't care all that much, but it might mislead some people and it is empirically incorrect. Eg. "with the ability to hit very high notes (with the exception of former Iced Earth frontman Matt Barlow". If Barlow doesn't hit high notes, no male in the history of rock has!

Good to see his name mentioned in the article though. Seminal vocalist in power metal. Baronvongoremeat 20:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ron McGovney's coining of the term

Isn't it true that it was actually Ron McGovney who used the term Power Metal To describe metallica's early demo? I wonder why it wasn't included in the article in the origin of the term section(there is sadly no section like this...). So I just put it in the middle of a paragraph that delt with its beginning. Can anybody help with creating a section with more info on the term's origin?

[edit] Cellador

Seriously, they were speedy deleted. What a joke. They are a newer band but the fact that they were signed to a major label is a lot to say for any power metal band. I don't see how this happened without the article being tagged and discussed first. I can't believe a band who I was able to buy their album at Best Buy of all places was speedily deleted with no discussion. Perhaps somone who knows how to properley start a deletion review should do so. --E tac 22:27, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, speedy deletes don't need a review, just recreate the page. Adding more information than just a record label would help it stay around -- all past deletions have been because of non-notability. Check the music-specific section linked on the right as well, and see what you can add (Any members formerly with other bands? What is this album that they've released? Do they have an official website? Any other information on them?) to claim, and hopefully prove, the notability of Cellador. -Bbik 02:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
There was more info than just a record label and the article was around for quite some time. Speedy deletes don't need a review but this should not have been speedily deleted, I didn't create the article either but seriously just deleting it without any discussion is a joke, people put some time and effort into the article's creation and they at least deserves a fair chance at defending it. --E tac 07:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
How long it lasted doesn't mean it met notability requirements, just that no one found it earlier. If there was more in it and you felt it did meet the requirements, or have more to add to convince an admin it can/will, ask for it to be undeleted. You don't need to do a review for articles that were speedied or PROD'ed according to that link, so talk to the one who deleted it, or find another admin who undeletes articles and see what they think. If it was a mistake, it should be easy enough to undo. -Bbik 08:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Well I put the article up for deletion review and now it is back and currently listed as an article for deletion here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cellador--E tac 22:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American vs European

What's the difference? I don't see any clarification of that anywhere in the article. There's a description of what European power metal is, but all the American-related parts seem to just list bands, rather than a description. If it's going to be separated like that, the two branches need to be more clearly explained. -Bbik 02:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

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